Where does the UPA fit into the Non-Payment for the Desert Shoot-Out in AZ ?
- Thread starter MikeJanis
- Start date
in my own opinion the UPA should pay. This is not the 1st time a UPA sanctioned event came up short on funds....remember it happened when someone in virginia named brady came up short and was crucified on all the boards.just my .02 worth.........................mike
WOW, I just saw the UPA Press Release with players asking to have their name removed from new point rankings list. I hope those players understand that by removing their names from the new points list will no longer allow them to be eligible to play/participate in many of the invitational events like the Mosconi Cup, the Challenge of Champions or the World Championships and such which I believe are by invitation only based on point standings. Additionally, the US Open and many other "PRO" events utilize the ranking system to seed players on the tournament chart. In effect these players are saying they no longer want to be considered Pro's.
I think that if the players do have their names removed from the list this would be the exact meaning of "shooting yourself in the foot".
See WPA Sports Calendar Here: http://wpa-pool.com/index.asp?content=cal2005
Mj
I think that if the players do have their names removed from the list this would be the exact meaning of "shooting yourself in the foot".
See WPA Sports Calendar Here: http://wpa-pool.com/index.asp?content=cal2005
Mj
Last edited:
smashmouth said:
this should be the reality. if the upa doesn't cover the prize it is just making the act seem OK. If they want to get the press they have to pay the bill, it shouldn't be a freebie.
while i think it is unfortunate that the promoter skipped the bill, the upa has to uphold some integrity to help our sport/hobby/passion grow and get big money involved. I liked the idea of the bca and upa merging, or maybe the apa can start holding more events to promote the game. they are great at getting people hooked on pool, maybe it is time for them to start helping more people earn their living on the green, and not by collecting fees.
I am haven't been in the game for very long, but the overall greed of the few people in power is very apparent. I think that the double standard of wanting pool to be regarded in a higher esteem, and cheating/stealing or being shady is just shooting the whole idea in the foot.
UPA Current AgendaTo provide unsurpassed levels of leadership, guidance, and organization that will benefit professional pool players in the United States through a published schedule of events complete with tournament promotion, guaranteed prize funds, and a fair and uniform ranking system.
First off there was NO guarantee of anything by the UPA. They simply approved of the tournament. They didn't run it. They simply published schedule of events complete with tournament promotion, guaranteed prize funds, as stated above.
First off there was NO guarantee of anything by the UPA. They simply approved of the tournament. They didn't run it. They simply published schedule of events complete with tournament promotion, guaranteed prize funds, as stated above.
Last edited:
Dawgie said:
WRONG !
Directly from the UPA Tour Web Site as seen here: http://www.upatour.com/tour-schedule.php
UPA Tour Schedule
Official U.S. Tour Stops
Name Place Dates
Diamond Open 9-Ball Championship King of Prussia, PA March 13th - 16th
Desert Shoot-out Classic Phoenix, AZ April 24th - 27th
Generation Pool.com 9 Ball Championship
(Heritage Event) Charlotte, NC June 8th - 12th
U.S.Open 9-Ball Championships Chesapeake, VA October 19th - 25th
READ SOME NEWS
UPA Accepts Disassociation - By UPA Tour - May 15, 2004
http://azbilliards.com/2000storya.cfm?storynum=1786
The UPA has released the following statement on their website regarding the 'disassociation' between the upcoming Western Canadian Open and the UPA...
"Unfortunately, the Great Western Open is no longer a UPA sanctioned event. Tournament Director Paul Hansen is unable to meet his financial promises to the UPA. We regret that he did not inform the UPA of this before issuing a press release; however, we are pleased that he has agreed to refund the entry fees of any players who have already paid."
- Frank Alvarez III, UPA Lead Representative
The UPA must have conveniently forgotten about making the promoters pony up the dough before providing santioning.
Last edited:
I have to defend Frank Alvarez, the President of the UPA. He got conned just like me. We both DEMANDED to know where the money was to pay the players (plus the added money). Chuck Bobbitt produced a current bank statement for the Desert Shootout account with a balance of $38,000 on day one. That plus the gate and all the late entries he collected in cash would more than take care of the total prize fund of $46,600. It showed a recent deposit of $25,000, that I was told was a loan from a friend of Chucks.
Where that money all disappeared to I have no idea. Checks are bouncing right and left. I just found out today that even smaller checks to Diamond came back. I have my suspicions now about what happened to the money, but the stories I'm getting are too hokey to even put on here. If Frank and the UPA erred anywhere, it was not demanding to see the prize fund in escrow prior to the tournament. Maybe it had to do with the fact that Frank lives in Phoenix and he knew of Chuck's stellar reputation. I'm just guessing here.
I didn't know any of this was a problem until I arrived two days before the tournament. That was when I began to make my own inquiries. When I saw the bank statement I was satisfied that everything was kosher. How wrong I was. Like Fatboy said in another thread, just because a guy has the money in his account, he still is in control of the funds, and can decide not to pay or use the money for something else.
Where that money all disappeared to I have no idea. Checks are bouncing right and left. I just found out today that even smaller checks to Diamond came back. I have my suspicions now about what happened to the money, but the stories I'm getting are too hokey to even put on here. If Frank and the UPA erred anywhere, it was not demanding to see the prize fund in escrow prior to the tournament. Maybe it had to do with the fact that Frank lives in Phoenix and he knew of Chuck's stellar reputation. I'm just guessing here.
I didn't know any of this was a problem until I arrived two days before the tournament. That was when I began to make my own inquiries. When I saw the bank statement I was satisfied that everything was kosher. How wrong I was. Like Fatboy said in another thread, just because a guy has the money in his account, he still is in control of the funds, and can decide not to pay or use the money for something else.
I have to defend Frank Alvarez, the President of the UPA. He got conned just like me. We both DEMANDED to know where the money was to pay the players (plus the added money). Chuck Bobbitt produced a current bank statement for the Desert Shootout account with a balance of $38,000 on day one.
Producing a bank statement doesn't guarnatee payment to anyone. It simply shows that Chuck Bobbitt has 38K. Nothing else. No guarantee of payment and no guarantee of anything to anyone. Chuck Bobbitt could have just as well show you cash and this also would not have guaranteed anything. Someone was remiss in their fidicuary responsibility.
Who held responsibility for proof a payment to the players?
Producing a bank statement doesn't guarnatee payment to anyone. It simply shows that Chuck Bobbitt has 38K. Nothing else. No guarantee of payment and no guarantee of anything to anyone. Chuck Bobbitt could have just as well show you cash and this also would not have guaranteed anything. Someone was remiss in their fidicuary responsibility.
Who held responsibility for proof a payment to the players?
Amen again.
Little old me brought this up before too
. Maybe we'll hear from the UPA soon on this.......but I'm not holding my breath.
MM
JB Cases said:What am I chopped liverI brought this up in a couple threads prior. Don't give that lazy no-count Mike Janis all the credit.
Little old me brought this up before too
. Maybe we'll hear from the UPA soon on this.......but I'm not holding my breath.MM
Dawgie said:
I guess we were all remiss. NO ONE thought we were being conned, especially after he started paying players in cash on Saturday. When I got my check on Monday from Chuck, I didn't have an inkling of what was to come. He fooled me, I admit it. But I don't intend to roll over and take it. I will fight to get the players paid for as long as it takes.
I am not sitting idly by and hoping for a resolution either. I have worked the phones all day with people who CAN do something, and have begun the legal process required for a criminal filing. I don't care who knows this. I've made it clear to Chuck he committed a felony, and I've been in contact with the Maricopa County Check Enforcement Division. This will not go away!
jay helfert said:
Jay, while I do not discount the fact that everything seemed kosher. And let me also say that I feel this is a very unfortunate incident and I feel very sorry for everyone involved. BUT, in no way does any of this discount the fact that the UPA sanctioned this event. By the UPA sanctioning the event this gave the players and I am sure yourself some relief because the UPA's job was to guarantee things like this from happening at their events.
Jay, you know as well as I do why the UPA started and how the UPA treated many promoters of events regarding sanctioning them with the UPA and having the UPA verify the funds prior to giving sanctioning.
I refer you to this article:
UPA Accepts Disassociation - By UPA Tour - May 15, 2004
http://azbilliards.com/2000storya.cfm?storynum=1786
The UPA has released the following statement on their website regarding the 'disassociation' between the upcoming Western Canadian Open and the UPA...
"Unfortunately, the Great Western Open is no longer a UPA sanctioned event. Tournament Director Paul Hansen is unable to meet his financial promises to the UPA. We regret that he did not inform the UPA of this before issuing a press release; however, we are pleased that he has agreed to refund the entry fees of any players who have already paid."
- Frank Alvarez III, UPA Lead Representative
Jay, many of us know why and how the UPA started and what the goals were to be. What everyone else does not know is how the UPA went about it. Call JOB's and get Blaylocks opinion from what they did to his event in the past. The skinny is, They told him either sanction it with us under our standards or we will put an event directly on top of yours and take all the players somewhere else. And that is exactly what they did over and over again to his event and others.
CW and/or the UPA in the beginning used some pretty strong arm tactics to get what they have. They did accomplish some good things and I actually respected the way they operated (to an extent) because they were solid on their beliefs and got the job done for the guaranteed funding.
Now here we are today and not only has the UPA lost the WPA stuff they are no longer doing their job for the players by getting a guarantee on the prize money.
Jay, I know it will be difficult for you to give an open opinion about the UPA and the UPA Prize Money Guarantee due to friendships / business relationships. But as someone I respect and look up to please do your best to clarify the UPA's responsibility in regards to the Guaranteed Funding and please keep in mind the above article on how the UPA has handled this situation in the past.
Jay, in your earlier response you defended Frank Alvarez because both of you got conned but the BUCK STOPS with Frank as the head of the UPA regarding getting the players paid. It was his job and the players relied/trusted upon him to do it effectively so they would not get conned. While I do not know Frank I am positive that he is just as sick about this as everyone else that didn't get paid. However, feeling sorry for ones self or even taking the responsibility for the lack of action on the UPA's part will not make things better unless it is made right by the UPA to the players.
Thanks,
Mj
Last edited:
MikeJanis said:
Mike, I'm not denying anything you said. I have never been a member of the UPA board or been involved in making their policies. My focus at this time is not to point fingers at anybody, just to get the players paid! That is where I will put my efforts for now.
Grady said:
Grady, good to see you back on AZ and YES you did EXACTLY what you said you would do with every one of your events regardless of how much it cost you personally.
Grady, aside from what you wrote above. What exactly as a player (and former UPA member???) feel the responsibilities of the UPA to the players are in this matter due to the fact that it was a UPA sanctioned event and what is your opinion on how they should handle it ?
Mj
jay helfert said:
Jay, I commend you for your efforts and wish you the best of luck in resolving this matter. I know (as I learned from Joe Kerr and my past experiences in this matter) how you feel about taking on the responsibility of getting the players paid. However, I must point out that you were just a hired TD and it is not your responsibility but lies with the UPA.
I know that the above statement from me is not going to take away your feeling of responsibility for getting the players paid but I hope it offers a little comfort. Take a breath, relax then get your azz back to work on Chuck and the UPA and doing your best, as I know you will to get the players paid anyway you can.
Good Luck,
Mj
Last edited:
Short, sweet and to the point..........why is this so hard for everyone to see?Grady said:
One of the UPA's main platforms for sanctioning tournaments have been based on the prize funds being guaranteed to protect the players. When it comes time to put up or shut up..............crickets. The UPA will not take any responsibility for this and all of the lip service seems to cease when the defication hits the oscillator.
I wonder how protected the players with that UPA badge feel now?
Guarnteed Prize Fund
Seems to me one way to prevent this problem is to open up a bank account and have two signers on the account. TWO signatures are required on each check. The promoter (who put the money in) and the Tournament Director (to insure proper payments) would be the required signatures. All of the players would know this ahead of time with a disclosed account balance prior to the tournament. The balance could not be withdrawn unless both signatures on are the check. When the prize money is paid the Promoter & TD would sign the check in front of each player. This way the funds couldn't disappear.
Seems to me one way to prevent this problem is to open up a bank account and have two signers on the account. TWO signatures are required on each check. The promoter (who put the money in) and the Tournament Director (to insure proper payments) would be the required signatures. All of the players would know this ahead of time with a disclosed account balance prior to the tournament. The balance could not be withdrawn unless both signatures on are the check. When the prize money is paid the Promoter & TD would sign the check in front of each player. This way the funds couldn't disappear.
