Which Collet Chuck and Collets should I use for 1.25 to hold butt end and maybe shafts too.

JerseyBill

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm trying to go with a collet chuck and maybe a cuemaster Deluxe or just any lathe. Which size Collet chuck and type of collets do I need.
I have a lathe with a 1.50 through hole in the spindle now. and I'm thinking of buying the Deluxe .
thanks in advance... I should have stated from the begining that Chris Hightower offered me a great deal including collet but didn't really understand it and I should have pursued a line of questioning until I did.
 
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Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't think there's a bolt on a collet chuck for the Cuesmith lathes. Mye Toolmex set tru 5c chuck weights about 25lbs and sticks out quite a bit. I don't think the bearings in the Cuesmith headstock is meant to support that kind of weight.
 
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whammo57

Kim Walker
Silver Member
I have all the collets....... they all make a mark on the cue......... I switched to the wrap that Langley Cues sells........... used it every day for 5 years................ get one......

Kim
 

Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Eventually I’ll bore out one of my Hardinge 2nd op headstocks & hang a Jacobs rubberflex on it. They take 1-3/8” largest stock collet. Aftermarket collet can be had for1-1”2”. I use one (Jacobs) currently on a little south bend but the spindle hole in the lathe is too small to take full advantage.

Would be easy/ideal for your existing large bore lathe.
You’ve mentioned the lathe several times but never stated what nose taper or threads???

That or a Hardinge/Sjogren 2J or 3J speed chuck with the large size spring collets. Like oversize 5c.

Pretty sure none of the ”good stuff” collet chucks will swing on a regular cue lathe, though. Even if you contrive a backplate, the OD of the chuck rim will be too large.

As Kim notes even collets require some sleeve protection.

smt
 
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JerseyBill

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Eventually I’ll bore out one of my Hardinge 2nd op headstocks & hang a Jacobs rubberflex on it. They take 1-3/8” largest stock collet. Aftermarket collet can be had for1-1”2”. I use one (Jacobs) currently on a little south bend but the spindle hole in the lathe is too small to take full advantage.

Would be easy/ideal for your existing large bore lathe.

That or a Hardinge/Sjogren 2J or 3J speed chuck with the large size spring collets. Like oversize 5c.

Pretty sure none of the ”good stuff” collet chucks will swing on a regular cue lathe, though. Even if you contrive a backplate, the OD of the chuck rim will be too large.

As Kim notes even collets require some sleeve protection.

smt
ok,,thanks a lot, I need to talk to Chris and ask about his lathe with one also.
 

Newsheriffintwn

Newsheriff Custom Cues
Gold Member
Silver Member

I posted this a while ago.
 

Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Eventually I’ll bore out one of my Hardinge 2nd op headstocks & hang a Jacobs rubberflex on it. They take 1-3/8” largest stock collet. Aftermarket collet can be had for1-1”2”. I use one (Jacobs) currently on a little south bend but the spindle hole in the lathe is too small to take full advantage.

Would be easy/ideal for your existing large bore lathe.
You’ve mentioned the lathe several times but never stated what nose taper or threads???

That or a Hardinge/Sjogren 2J or 3J speed chuck with the large size spring collets. Like oversize 5c.

Pretty sure none of the ”good stuff” collet chucks will swing on a regular cue lathe, though. Even if you contrive a backplate, the OD of the chuck rim will be too large.

As Kim notes even collets require some sleeve protection.

smt
Have you checked out the Pratt Burnerd KC15? Kinda the same system as Hardinge/Sjogren, but the collets are all metal, so they are a bit more robust.
 

Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The thing about the large series rubberflex chucks/collets is that they will swallow any modern butt anywhere on the length.
Not only that, each collet has 1/8” collapse range so ther is no need to change collets or sleeves as often & seldom at all when re-positioning in short sections along a taper.

That said, I have /use a couple for machining parts. Have not installed a complete one on a cue-dedicated lathe With full spindle capacity (over 1-1/4” bore)

smt

PSHardinge /Sjogren 2J & 3J are all metal collets. Just look like over-size 5c but with 4 split instead of 3 split to accommodate the larger diameter range. However, I do think Jacobs 9— series are better for anything but, say gripping truck axles and taking a 1/2” plunge cut :) Due to reasons noted above & due to the conformity of multiple segments (24 in the 1-3/8” size).
 
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JoeyInCali

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm trying to go with a collet chuck and maybe a cuemaster Deluxe or just any lathe. Which size Collet chuck and type of collets do I need.
I have a lathe with a 1.50 through hole in the spindle now. and I'm thinking of buying the Deluxe .
thanks in advance...
Why? How your going to chuck up on odd sizes if that is your only lathe ?
 
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Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The thing about the large series rubberflex chucks/collets is that they will swallow any modern butt anywhere on the length.
Not only that, each collet has 1/8” collapse range so ther is no need to change collets or sleeves as often & seldom at all when re-positioning in short sections along a taper.

That said, I have /use a couple for machining parts. Have not installed a complete one on a cue-dedicated lathe With full spindle capacity (over 1-1/4” bore)

smt

PSHardinge /Sjogren 2J & 3J are all metal collets. Just look like over-size 5c but with 4 split instead of 3 split to accommodate the larger diameter range. However, I do think Jacobs 9— series are better for anything but, say gripping truck axles and taking a 1/2” plunge cut :) Due to reasons noted above & due to the conformity of multiple segments (24 in the 1-3/8” size).
Your right, I was thinking abouthe the rubber flex collets used on the Jacobs collet chuck.
 

Canadian cue

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have amassed an assortment of different styles of work holding fixtures for the lathe over the years. I started with a standard 3 jaw and four jaw then started expanding from there. I have four different collet systems, two rigid collet and two flex collet. As far as accuracy and rigidity of your work holding, fixed collets held in the nose of the lathe spindle is the best. I have a 5C and 3J collets, the 5C go up to 1-1/16 and 3J go up to 1-3/8. I also have two different flex collet systems the Jacobs rubber flex and the Pratt and Burnerd multisize collet system. The Jacobs comes in two ranges of sizes I have the smaller of the two so it only goes up to 1-1/16. The Burnerd goes up to 1-1/2. I also acquired a bison 6 jaw chuck. Each system has its pro's and cons. If you only want only one chuck to do it all the six jaw adjust true is probably your best investment the only con I have found is when doing work close to the chuck as in Tips having those big jaws spinning close to your hands is not optimal, like when using a razor blade to trim tips. The flex collets are nice, they are accurate but they take longer to adjust when changing sizes so they are best when doing repetitive tasks at the same or similar sizes. The rigid collets rule for nominal sizes. Now having said all that if you are working on any part of the cue that is tapered you will need to use an intermediate soft collet regardless of which work holding system you use. All chucks and collets are designed to be used on straight diameters. So if you are trying to hold the butt cap of a cue you need something that will chuck your 1-1/4 plus the wall thickness of your soft collet so probably a min of 1-3/8.
 

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conetip

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I use ER40 and made my own Acetyl ones. I use them in a very narrow range and they work very well. You want the collet bore to match the taper of the item being held. My most common size is to make tapered sleeves that fit 16mm collet for shafts. I made a series of 19mm wood sleeves that were tapered that worked well too. Also have a set of sleeves for the 30mm collet. The sleeves can be used in a collet or in a good chuck. When I make the sleeves or the collets, the inside and outside is all finished before parting off the bar. Sometimes I use a larger size and use paper (4 thou thick) or heavy paper( 8 thou thick) as an inner collet protector. It will stop the collet from marking things, and allows it to grip really well. With metal collets, that can have a lot of crushing power, and totally crush the wood or soft materials. So when clamping down on wood or the carbon, I just use the nut directly without the long ER spanner.
 

JerseyBill

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Eventually I’ll bore out one of my Hardinge 2nd op headstocks & hang a Jacobs rubberflex on it. They take 1-3/8” largest stock collet. Aftermarket collet can be had for1-1”2”. I use one (Jacobs) currently on a little south bend but the spindle hole in the lathe is too small to take full advantage.

Would be easy/ideal for your existing large bore lathe.
You’ve mentioned the lathe several times but never stated what nose taper or threads???

That or a Hardinge/Sjogren 2J or 3J speed chuck with the large size spring collets. Like oversize 5c.

Pretty sure none of the ”good stuff” collet chucks will swing on a regular cue lathe, though. Even if you contrive a backplate, the OD of the chuck rim will be too large.

As Kim notes even collets require some sleeve protection.

smt
no threads, it is much like the way a mini lathe works, but a larger version..made my Techtongda and has about 31 " between centers with a 1.5" bore in the headstock. A 5 MT center goes in ?? if tht helps... Big mistake but I did it so I either live with it or find someone to make the same mistake.. Any takers????
 

JerseyBill

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Love the selection!
All but the 6jaw.
I’ve got several adjustru’s but prefer 3jaw. About the only advantage of a 6 jaw is large thinwall tubes that won’t fit a collet.

smt
a good friend and long time cuemaker told me a six jaw is only way to go. But With my lathes it won't work. So either buy a big lathe which I can't afford. Or go with the Cueman deluxe, which I have experience with and to tell you the truth I'm not expecting to make 500 cues as old as I am.
 

Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
no threads, it is much like the way a mini lathe works, but a larger version..made my Techtongda and has about 31 " between centers with a 1.5" bore in the headstock. A 5 MT center goes in ?? if tht helps... Big mistake but I did it so I either live with it or find someone to make the same mistake.. Any takers????
Is this your lathe?


That is curious and almost funny that the spindle ends in a bolt on flange.
That said, I can’t see any reason to not use it. You can modify any plain back chuck to fit, or an appropriate side A- taper back chuck. You can also fit a A- taper large series Jacobs rubberflex or Sjogren collet chuck to it.

Putting a plain back 4 jaw would get you in business with virtually no extra work or mods except possibly adding a few screw holes to the flange

With that much flange, I imagine it would be possible, possibly to make said chucks, collet chucks, etc “adjustrue” With a little extra effort.

nothing I can find indicates the actual nose projection.
However with that info, you could determine whether reducing the flange and threading it 2-1/4 -8 (as example) or other thread or taper for common spindle accessories is viable.

It seems highly unlikely that precision bearings are used in such lathes, so keeping the option for adjustru feature might not be imprudent. Then again, what class spindle bearings do cue lathes use, either. Or hang a 4 jaw on it & get to work.

Since you mention wanting to get out from under it; at the right price (stealing :) or cash plus wood) I could possibly be interested in taking a look if you don’t want to do the work to make it useful.

smt

ps, re: 6 jaw chucks: theory seems to be they will hold with less pressure.

Maybe, maybe not. In metalworking it is understood that a “good” 6 jaw chuck only bears on 3 or 4 jaws unless a the part is perfectly round. A less than “good” example, what is the point. They are good for compliant materials and thin tubes. But AFA whether they will mar less holding wood, there is always the factor of actually gripping on 3 or 4 jaws, or having 1 high jaw actually more likely to mark.

Nonetheless, people do have different experiences and preferences, some in contradiction to what geometry or logic might seem to predict. In cue work if you don’t have large collets, 6jaws is useful to hold rings and tubes with less possibility of collapse. When boring rings & such the released part will be more round (if the OD was originally) than from a 3jaw which might yield a lobed part on thin material. For the same reason I prefer to bore in a collet.
 
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JerseyBill

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Is this your lathe?


That is curious and almost funny that the spindle ends in a bolt on flange.
That said, I can’t see any reason to not use it. You can modify any plain back chuck to fit, or an appropriate side A- taper back chuck. You can also fit a A- taper large series Jacobs rubberflex or Sjogren collet chuck to it.

Putting a plain back 4 jaw would get you in business with virtually no extra work or mods except possibly adding a few screw holes to the flange

With that much flange, I imagine it would be possible, possibly to make said chucks, collet chucks, etc “adjustrue” With a little extra effort.

nothing I can find indicates the actual nose projection.
However with that info, you could determine whether reducing the flange and threading it 2-1/4 -8 (as example) or other thread or taper for common spindle accessories is viable.

It seems highly unlikely that precision bearings are used in such lathes, so keeping the option for adjustru feature might not be imprudent. Then again, what class spindle bearings do cue lathes use, either. Or hang a 4 jaw on it & get to work.

Since you mention wanting to get out from under it; at the right price (stealing :) or cash plus wood) I could possibly be interested in taking a look if you don’t want to do the work to make it useful.

smt

ps, re: 6 jaw chucks: theory seems to be they will hold with less pressure.

Maybe, maybe not. In metalworking it is understood that a “good” 6 jaw chuck only bears on 3 or 4 jaws unless a the part is perfectly round. A less than “good” example, what is the point. They are good for compliant materials and thin tubes. But AFA whether they will mar less holding wood, there is always the factor of actually gripping on 3 or 4 jaws, or having 1 high jaw actually more likely to mark.

Nonetheless, people do have different experiences and preferences, some in contradiction to what geometry or logic might seem to predict. In cue work if you don’t have large collets, 6jaws is useful to hold rings and tubes with less possibility of collapse. When boring rings & such the released part will be more round (if the OD was originally) than from a 3jaw which might yield a lobed part on thin material. For the same reason I prefer to bore in a collet.
No, that's not the lathe I have. It's a Techtongda 8x30.5 with 1 1/2 inch spindle bore ...It was impulsive to say the least..sold on ebay and now much cheaper than the almost 2k i spent a year ago. i recently offered 1150 for another one and was countered with 1350 so I through six or seven hundred in the garbage and never really got a decent lathe...
 

Canadian cue

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Love the selection!
All but the 6jaw.
I’ve got several adjustru’s but prefer 3jaw. About the only advantage of a 6 jaw is large thinwall tubes that won’t fit a collet.

smt
I find that the 6 jaw puts less pressure on the piece, same logic as thin wall tubing.( just read your later post where you addressed that point)
 

Canadian cue

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I use ER40 and made my own Acetyl ones. I use them in a very narrow range and they work very well. You want the collet bore to match the taper of the item being held. My most common size is to make tapered sleeves that fit 16mm collet for shafts. I made a series of 19mm wood sleeves that were tapered that worked well too. Also have a set of sleeves for the 30mm collet. The sleeves can be used in a collet or in a good chuck. When I make the sleeves or the collets, the inside and outside is all finished before parting off the bar. Sometimes I use a larger size and use paper (4 thou thick) or heavy paper( 8 thou thick) as an inner collet protector. It will stop the collet from marking things, and allows it to grip really well. With metal collets, that can have a lot of crushing power, and totally crush the wood or soft materials. So when clamping down on wood or the carbon, I just use the nut directly without the long ER spanner.
I build my collets in the same way. My tracing taper attachment is set for the standard cue taper so it's easy to make collets that match the taper of the cue. I have used Delrin, teflon and nylatron.
 

Canadian cue

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
For all the newbie cue makers a point to consider especially when facing the joint faces. The actual runout at the chuck end is not the most important aspect of holding the cue. It is that the chuck or collet holds the piece concentric over the length. I will try and explain what I mean by this. You can put a dial on the piece half an inch from the face of the chuck and the piece can run near perfect but if you put a dial on the far end it could be running out a ton. Some people use double chucks to try and compensate and yes if you have a chuck on the backside it will seem to correct any run out. But with wood especially the shaft you can be bending the cue straight. that is why when I face shafts I always let the tip end run free to be sure it is running true. To be able to accomplish this you need a fairly accurate and repeatable chuck or collet chuck, and for that you need a chuck with hardened surfaces, scroll, chuck jaws etc. A cheap chuck ruins fast because the bearing surfaces are soft and any time you put uneven pressure on the chuck jaws it damages the scroll which leads to inconsistent runout.
 
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