I sure disagree with you that 10 ball is easier than 8 ball on a barbox. I think the stats pretty well show which is easier for top players. I was a little surprised to see that their stats playing 9 and 10 ball was very close for both players. I think when Dennis and Shane played their tar match on the big table, playing 10 ball and 8 ball, they also made more run outs playing 8 ball. One could practice playing them all playing the ghost and he would find out after a while which is tougher for him. When it comes to good players, the one who breaks the best is going to determine the winner.
Which game is easier on a BB? Decider stats
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I sure disagree with you that 10 ball is easier than 8 ball on a barbox. I think the stats pretty well show which is easier for top players. I was a little surprised to see that their stats playing 9 and 10 ball was very close for both players. I think when Dennis and Shane played their tar match on the big table, playing 10 ball and 8 ball, they also made more run outs playing 8 ball. One could practice playing them all playing the ghost and he would find out after a while which is tougher for him. When it comes to good players, the one who breaks the best is going to determine the winner.
I agree with this order, especially about the break.
I believe some top players could run over 20 racks using the magic rack and pattern racking on a barbox.
As far as separating the men from the boys.... I've seen a lot of the pros get beat by younger generation "boys" on bar boxes that couldn't even begin to beat the pros on a big table.
It is easier for the pros on a big table but the difference between the two groups are minimal on a bar box.
It is easier for the pros on a big table but the difference between the two groups are minimal on a bar box.
I don't disagree but I notice a lot of people (like the guy you quoted) overstating how
"every runout looks the same".
Dennis never had the same runout twice. I did a lil visual showing how frequently
each numbered ball went into the same pocket - http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=326246
I think luck is the major holdup. Even with the magic rack, there will always be funny things
that happen on the break, tiny inconsistencies that result in a different layout
than last time. At some point a ball will freeze onto the CB or line up funny and make life difficult.
What I always felt was kind of amazing is... I'm not sure if we have a true ten pack on video,
we have part of earl's 11 rack run on video but it features early 9's. We have a 9-pack on youtube.
It seems to me if MBR+pattern rack were so dead nuts easy, some pro or shortstop
would go ahead and lay down a 10 pack on video, just to say he was the first to ever get one on film.
I knew I could count on you... yup, it does seem a little too easy. I think the difficulty of congestion
is overstated a little by barbox fans. Or maybe congestion drastically tanks runout rates for the average player,
but doesn't faze the top pros much.
It may be they're right about 8 ball at the pro level, do you know how often we see 10b get run out by the incoming player?
I bet after factoring rack'n'runs, 10b is still 20-30% lower runout rate typically.
8 ball is much easier for pros down to strong "B" players than rotation games. You miss position a little and you could have 5 or 6 more balls for a shot. In rotation you miss position you're SOL. Breaking balls up is so much more easy in 8 ball. You have many balls to play the breakup from and you can take many patterns to get to the breakout. Anyone that says 8 ball is harder than rotation on a Bar Box most likely hasn't played a lot of both on a BB IMO. Johnnyt
I looked at the Pool-Trax information for both the 9-Ball and 10-Ball sets of the Shane/Earl bar-box match. It appears that the post-break run-out percentage for both sets was about 40% for the breaker and 50% for the non-breaker (44% combined) -- much lower than for the 8-Ball session..
[Incidentally, because of rack-your-own matches, the rack'n'run terminology doesn't really work.]
What you say makes sense on paper, but I don't believe it works out like that. Just ask around to a bunch of B players and above that play both games fairly regularly, and ask them what their high runs in each are. I know that mine in 9 ball is twice that of 8 ball. And I have bested my high runs in 8 ball many times playing 9 ball.
And, just so you know, I have won three decent amateur tournaments (twice won the area title) playing 8 ball, so I do know how to play it.
Well... Neil, I trust your opinion. On the highest level pros, ex SVB... How might you explain why the largest package between 8, 9 & 10 ball this last weekend, by FAR, was 8 ball? It wasn't even close on a BB. I know it's a small sample size.
I don't play much 8 ball. Don't play on BB, just 9's. This is an interesting conversation.
I don't think anyone, even Shane and Earl, can explain why they played 50 games and only ran a couple of two packs between them! It's not at all uncommon for A players to put at least a 5 pack on someone in an evenings play playing 9 ball on a bar box.
The 8 pack Shane did in 8 ball was the highest I have ever seen. Although I have heard of higher.
Let's phrase a question a little bit differently for fun....two guys playing 9 ball, rack your own, barbox, play 50 games. Highest for either was just a two pack.... what would you rate them at just by that?? B- or B? Yet, somehow, two of the best players in the world managed to do just that! Perfect storm in reverse???
Shane has run a 15 pack on a BB. Did I see it.no. But he said it on a TAR podcast and I believe him. Johnnyt
How much more 9 ball have you played compared to 8 ball though? I know I have played 100 times or more 9 ball than 8 ball so, naturally I have more runs in 9 ball. I have played in two 8 ball tournaments lately on sat, and noticed players running out much more playing 8 ball than they do in the 9 balls fri tournament, with the same players every week.
I can't explain it either JohnnyT or Neil. This weekend's stats were so askew, it was mind boggling.This is why we pay AtLarge so much money.
Not to mention Jack Hines ran a 48 pack with 17 iguanas on his shoulders with a house cue.
(this is all too difficult)
(this is all too difficult)
I along with plenty of others there, have already seen a 11 pack run using a magic rack in a gamble match from a shortstop.
I'm sure he has, Johnny, not saying at all that he hasn't. I just stated that the 8 pack was the largest I have personally seen. Souquet did a 27 pack on a 9'er.
At that level, running out once you have a shot is basically a given for either 8 or 9 ball. That they both broke so poorly in 9 ball was the most amazing part of that match.
Heck, in 9 ball barbox, in a race to 7 tournaments, I fully expect to do a three pack each set. And I'm a nobody. If I don't, I know something is off. For them not to do that in a race to 30 is almost unbelievable!
The last ten years or so it's been mostly 9 ball. Before that, it was about 60-40 eight ball. For years most of my play was in bars, where it's almost always 8 ball. Then it went to the pool rooms with 9 ball on the 9'ers in the early evening, and the bars with 8 ball at night on the barboxes. Now it's 99% just on my own barbox when I'm up to it.
As to the guys you have seen in the tournaments, I see the same thing in leagues here from people. They predominantly play 8 ball, and are comfortable with it, plus, it's slop counts. Watch the same people play 9 ball, and they can't get out from anywhere on an open rack! They have it in their head that they don't know how to play 9 ball, and keep missing shots they would never miss playing 8 ball.
Once they get it in their head that it is still just making balls and getting position on the next ball, they do a lot better in 9 ball.
Christ, when was this? I'd heard of matlock doing over 20 before but took it with a grain of salt.
Was there a post on this 27 pack? I dunno how I missed this. Any witnesses?
8 ball I assume? Ghost or just break'n'run normally?
Good point, Neil. I think it may have been just an aberration. From what little I have seen of pros on a bar box, it would not have surprised me at all if they had produced some large packages in 9-Ball and/or 10-Ball.
I wouldn't generalize too much from the results of this match.
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It's been posted on here in the past. Try a search for "highest runs" and you might find it in there somewhere. Might even be shorter to search his name.??
Oh, he did it a number of years ago. Not sure just how long ago though.