Which Variable Is the Cause of Most Missed Shots

I simply can't believe what I'm reading in this thread. Its as if you guys think spin is the plague. What's the bread and butter shot in 9 ball? Probably going 2 rails out of a corner. Are you all hitting that shot with center high, or center draw? Yikes!

It's like being a race car driver and your steering wheel only turns in one direction. You are leaving half the options out of your game.
 
So many posts to reply to....perhaps just to Ramble on. The Rambler Ambassador from the late 60s would be a good car for a pool player as the back seat made to a bed.
Straight pool was my earliest practice as Willie Mosconi was my source from a book.
8 ball employing Straight pool knowledge and skills makes for a sound 8 ball game. Short precision shape is a Straight pool skill taught by Mosconi. His ark of 5 object balls mid table facing a side pocket. Take ball in hand and run them using about a 12 inch draw. Try it! It's fun.

23 games in a row is my bar table 8 ball high run. At 2 bucks a throw and 1 for 10. Those young men oh so wanted to impress the ladies league on the adjacent table. 🤷‍♂️

My 2 biggest pelts would be Steve Mizerack and John Schmidt, both Straight pool Champions. 🤷‍♂️ Steve was a single game of bar table 8 ball. I broke and ran. John was a race to 2 nine ball on 7 foot Diamond.
I always enjoyed playing the guys that liked to spin their rock.....To impress? The Girls ?
Center axis is so boring.....like a Straight pool run. Back in the day helped supplement the income in the evenings.
 
I can use a tip or more on every shot and no side spin on any shot and play close to the same. Using
iusedtoberich said:
I simply can't believe what I'm reading in this thread. Its as if you guys think spin is the plague. What's the bread and butter shot in 9 ball? Probably going 2 rails out of a corner. Are you all hitting that shot with center high, or center draw? Yikes!

It's like being a race car driver and your steering wheel only turns in one direction. You are leaving half the options out of your game.
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Depends on the angle of the shot. You DO understand that you can induce side spin with draw and angle without hitting off the horizontal center, right?

Jaden
 
In an alternate universe, I just watched Duong run the last rack of the Reyes cup to win his set. All but 2 shots had spin on them. The 2 that did not were dead stop shots.

Carry on. ha ha ha.

Unreal.
 
iusedtoberich said:
In an alternate universe, I just watched Duong run the last rack of the Reyes cup to win his set. All but 2 shots had spin on them. The 2 that did not were dead stop shots.

Carry on. ha ha ha.

Unreal.
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You just watched Duong in an alternate universe? How did you pull that one off?

Jaden
 
The funniest thing about this is that this ALL stemmed from a comment I made to a person who was struggling with missing because of a lack of ability to use sidespin. If I was teaching someone and they asked me about that. I would teach them BHE or FHE if they were using LD tech. If I'm teaching someone who hasn't mastered follow/draw and speed control, I would NEVER teach them to use side spin.

I taught my best friend to play and I didn't let him shoot a ball for like two weeks. I just had him doing stroke drills.

If you absolutely can't figure out how to accurately use side spin, one of the best things you can do is focus on draw, follow and speed control to get where you need to on the table. That's where ALL of this started.

After you master those, THEN you can work on how to use sidespin, but for the majority of the shots on the table, it is NOT necessary, or even the best shot, to use sidespin.

This is where I get to address iusedtoberich's argument.

IF you have become fairly proficient at using sidespin, whether that's through BHE/FHE or even just feel and experience, you SHOULD use sidespin on most shots. There's always something you can use it for. One thing I LOVE to do, that most people don't even know is possible, is to pinch short the return angle on a draw shot with inside. I can make the ball draw back at an angle that many people wouldn't think is possible by using inside pinch draw.

So, yes, absolutely, I understand that higher level players that are highly proficient or have mastered using sidespin, can and do and maybe even should use sidespin on many or most shots.

I also think and have recently discovered that it may increase consistency and overall accuracy to not OVER use it and it's probably better to minimize the amount of sidespin and the frequency that it's used.

Try it, you just might find that with proper speed control, your consistency and overall game improves.

Jaden

p.s. The reason I discovered it is because I started using a high deflection CF shaft and can no longer bridge 6" from the tip to use BHE, nor can I hold the cue at the front of the handle for FHE. I'm used to bridging and holding the cue for a LD shaft now and I like that cue and shaft for most shots. When I DO need to use sidespin, I grab one of my other cues with a LD shaft on it and the pivot point marked so I can consistently make those necessary shots, or I use that cue and shaft and just go by feel. I don't think I'd be confident enough to use feel for sidespin in a competition situation, but it's been surprisingly accurate in practice. I don't really compete any more anyways...although that may change in the future...lol
 
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Nice post. I'll concede as a practice exercise it sounds like a good idea to use only vertical axis shots for a few practice sessions. It can expose some things that one didn't know, and they can come up in a real game and help one be prepared.

It's a good idea to do that actually with lots of different skills. For example, slow rolling each shot so the OB "barely" drops over the lip. And, hitting each shot hard as hell. When you practice things that don't come up a lot, it will better prepare you for when they do.
 
Spin controls or affects the path of travel to a point, but at some point it "breaks" and other forces take over. What is y'alls experience in how speed plays into using spin?
 
Biloxi Boy said:
Spin controls or affects the path of travel to a point, but at some point it "breaks" and other forces take over. What is y'alls experience in how speed plays into using spin?
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Slower speed breaks sooner, and jacked up breaks sooner. A must have weapon.
 
Master the vertical center axis Then the spin. Walk before run. You know the joke.. the young bull says, "let's run down and breed a cow." The old bull says, "let's walk down and breed them all."
 
SeniorTom said:
Side spin is not the culprit, and I don't think anybody is saying that, it is 'unwanted' side spin that is the culprit.
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The things to do to avoid unwanted sidespin.

1) Line up at the base of the CB or over the top of it to ensure that when lining up the shot you are directly on the center axis.
2) Do stroke drills to ensure that your stroke is straight and true (bottle stroke drills, stop shot drills, etc).
3) Even if you don't use BHE, bridge (when possible) at the cue's natural pivot point. This gives ALL KINDS of autocorrection for stroke flaws. You may still get unwanted spin, but you will miss hardly any shots due to imparting unwanted spin (when the unwanted spin is due to stroke flaws and not initial alignment/body alignment).
4) Step into the shot aligning your rearmost inner heal with the line of the shot. This helps to ensure proper body alignment.

There are probably some other things you can do as well. Use a wrist out turn on contact is a secret some pros still hold close to their chest. But ASSUREDLY don't turn it INWARD on contact. Turning it outward will ensure acceleration, turning it inward will ensure DECELERATION.

Jaden
 
gregcantrall said:
Master the vertical center axis Then the spin. Walk before run. You know the joke.. the young bull says, "let's run down and breed a cow." The old bull says, "let's walk down and breed them all."
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There is another school of thought regarding learning which is to do everything at once. If I was teaching a rank beginner, I’d show them the bridge/stance/stroke on day 1, and spin on day 1.5.

I wouldn’t wait until they mastered center ball. Hell, that might take years.
 
iusedtoberich said:
If I was teaching a rank beginner,
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My successful lessons that helped me climb out of the B division, devoted 1 week to each step in building the most basic. 6 weeks and I emerged with a good solid foundation that allowed me to attain the title Master....many years later. 😉
You ever hear of Walter Lindrum?
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Australian Billiards champion. He only got one ball for the first month!!!! 🤷‍♂️ Practice practice practice.
 
Biloxi Boy said:
So I get slower speed, but how does jacking up affect when spin breaks?
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Jacking up creates more friction with the felt which causes the ball to catch and change course quicker. That's how masse's work. Jacking up always induces more friction with the felt, that's why when I use BHE, I try to elevate and lower my bridge for follow and draw to minimize that effect.

Some people who try to use BHE will stop and claim it doesn't work, especially for longer shots, because they jack up the back of their stroke and induce excess counter swerve.

Jaden
 
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Option 2,

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Option 1: is a fairly basic concept to learn and any player that puts effort into understanding the physics of the game "should" have a strong handle on squirt.

Option 3: although a reality of playing with spin, this is also something that an experienced player shouldn't be surprised by. Clean vs dirty balls certainly changes the adjustment, but not to the same degree as option 2.

Option 2: this is the only option wherein the variables that alter the phenomenon are out of the control of the shooter and can vary from room/table location, day to day if not hour to hour. There's more at play then just dirty cloth.
 
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