Who In America Makes LD Shafts Out of Solid Blanks or Converts Existing Shafts to LD?

[kvinbrwr]

Just have Ernie make a ferrule-less shaft, hollow out the tip end a couple inches back, and use a fibre pad under the tip.

LOL.

I love the "just have" part. Ernie had some of his Japanese buyers request non-ivory ferrules so they could order completely non-ivory Ginas and he tried materials for about a day and then said pass. For him, if it doesn't feel like a Gina, he's not making it, and you know, why argue that point with him?

Kevin

 

[JoeyInCali]

Messing with Mr Borani has now got me curious. I've had a PM from Japan and there are several people doing it there, both from their own blanks and from existing shafts.

Anyone out there using a solid maple LD shaft? Who would you recommend for this work? I can't get Ernie Gutierrez interested in the concept and he's way busy building huge dollar cues. I have a Predator 314 that is way LD but feels like a loaf of rye bread on the ball. I'd love a LD shaft that felt traditional.

Is LD and solid feel possible? Or are the 2 mutually exclusive?

Thanks

Kevin

Kev, it's easier on new shafts.
Problem with already made shafts is they alreaady have a tenon.
5/16 being the most popular.
If it has a 3/8 tenon, one can drill a hole in there and still maintain some tenon.
I can get a custom tool where it can create bigger hole past the tenon's hole but am just too busy to dabble on it right now.

 

[kvinbrwr]

jacoby is making a ld shaft, i have not tried it, but my friend who uses one suggested i try one. he likes his and he will not use predator. it is laminated though.

louis

Louis

I'm not against lamination. I'm against the hollow soft non-specific feel and I'm not quite sure what property of LD shafts causes that.

Thanks

Kevin

 

[kvinbrwr]

Kev, it's easier on new shafts.
Problem with already made shafts is they alreaady have a tenon.
5/16 being the most popular.
If it has a 3/8 tenon, one can drill a hole in there and still maintain some tenon.
I can get a custom tool where it can create bigger hole past the tenon's hole but am just too busy to dabble on it right now.

Joey

You make a LD shafts from your own solid blanks?

Kevin

 

[Pushout]

Kevin Varney. My Varney has ld shafts of Kevin's own design due to taper and ferrule material and length. They do for me what laminated shafts were supposed to do and never did. Also, they feel like what they are, one piece shafts.

 

[branpureza]

Hollowing out the front of the shaft will give you ld, but it will also reduce the feel. You have to do something more to maintain the feel.

Please excuse me for not posting what I do to maintain the feel...

Jaden

Fill the end with foam! :thumbup:

LOL.

I love the "just have" part. Ernie had some of his Japanese buyers request non-ivory ferrules so they could order completely non-ivory Ginas and he tried materials for about a day and then said pass. For him, if it doesn't feel like a Gina, he's not making it, and you know, why argue that point with him?

Kevin

I'd have to agree with him.. To me nothing feels better than the "click" of an ivory ferrule.

Thanks for the steer. From Mezz:

Mezz WD700 Shaft
This totally new Mezz design of hard maple shafts has low deflection performance that can enhance every player's game, but yet has a feel of a traditional one-piece maple shaft.

Which is exactly what I said I wanted.

Thanks again

Kevin

For what it's worth Kevin, if I played with a production cue, Mezz would definitely be my first choice. They make a great product.

 

[Jaden]

nope can't use foam or any other soft material...

Fill the end with foam! :thumbup:




I'd have to agree with him.. To me nothing feels better than the "click" of an ivory ferrule.

I had worked with balsa wood and other materials that I thought might work, but they don't...

Jaden

 

[brandoncook26]

I can't get used to the LD thing. I am comfortable with my shafts. But for the record, I have tried almost all of the production LD shafts and many customs. Predators play like mush to me, OB1 and 2 shafts hit too soft (haven't tried a classic but heard they are crisper).

If I were forced to switch to a LD shaft, Mezz feels the most like a regular maple shaft. In fact, the WD700 I tried felt no different than my normal shaft. I tried a couple Tiger shafts and they were just under the Mezz. I am a big supporter of OB and what they do to support pool. I would love to try a Classic shaft and see if it were similar to the Mezz. If so, I would choose OB, but I can't say without having tested it.

 

[Matt_24]

I'm pretty sure that feeling (hollow, I know it well) has zero to do with lamination and more to do with the tip end technology that creates the minimal deflection. The lamination process is just an easier way to keep all of their production shafts the same size/taper (I believe).

A solid hit with great feel will equal higher deflection generally. I've used predators for years. I tell myself I'm going to play with one of my normal shafts that feel good. I do it...they feel good....I can't make a ball or do anything with the cue ball, lol, but it does give "feedback" (generally this lasts about an hour) and I'm back to my Z2 shaft (used 314s for years before that).
.

 

[Jaden]

Well it's that and it's marketing...

I'm pretty sure that feeling (hollow, I know it well) has zero to do with lamination and more to do with the tip end technology that creates the minimal deflection. The lamination process is just an easier way to keep all of their production shafts the same size/taper (I believe).

A solid hit with great feel will equal higher deflection generally. I've used predators for years. I tell myself I'm going to play with one of my normal shafts that feel good. I do it...they feel good....I can't make a ball or do anything with the cue ball, lol, but it does give "feedback" (generally this lasts about an hour) and I'm back to my Z2 shaft (used 314s for years before that).
.

They want people to think that the lamination contributes to the LD. It gives them a better marketing stance.

Jaden

 

[kvinbrwr]

Tate had offered Mr Baroni the service of he and I testing one of his shafts, a service Tate has preformed before (for Tiger I think) and he wrote a glowing review of that product. I don't think Mr Baroni has responded.

However, Jaden has agreed to send Tate a shaft and then Tate and I will test that out and since Tate is better versed as such stuff, hopefully he'll write the review.

That's putting your product where your mouth is Jaden. I hope I love it.

Anyone else?

Thanks

Kevin

 

[Rod]

Predator does have that feel and is laminated. What do you think causes this if not the lamination ? Is it their ferrules? The coring?

Thanks

Kevin

I tried a 314-2 and don't like the feel or taper. I seriously doubt lamination effects the feel, glued joints is likely stronger than a 1 piece unit. Predator ferrules are soft, that and a hollowed shaft filled with foam is the major reason for lack of feel.

It really depends on how low of LD your after. Personally the 314-2 was to low for me. I opted for a little more squirt with solid feel. I now play with a Tiger ultra X. It has a stronger taper than Predator, feels very solid without being cored. They drill the shaft only enough to attach a short ferrule. Look at an illustration.

I think there will always be a trade off. I also think its best one really knows what their trying to accomplish. In my case I'm happy the accuracy & feel & tend to not go to far outside for accuracy. It really depends on speed, offset and distance.

Rod

 

[kvinbrwr]

I tried a 314-2 and don't like the feel or taper. I seriously doubt lamination effects the feel, glued joints is likely stronger than a 1 piece unit. Predator ferrules are soft, that and a hollowed shaft filled with foam is the major reason for lack of feel.

It really depends on how low of LD your after. Personally the 314-2 was to low for me. I opted for a little more squirt with solid feel. I now play with a Tiger ultra X. It has a stronger taper than Predator, feels very solid without being cored. They drill the shaft only enough to attach a short ferrule. Look at an illustration.

I think there will always be a trade off. I also think its best one really knows what their trying to accomplish. In my case I'm happy the accuracy & feel & tend to not go to far outside for accuracy. It really depends on speed, offset and distance.

Rod

Rod

That's interesting and I think you are right.

Thanks

Kevin

 

[Wedge]

Mezz WD700

Kevin, my good friend Zion Zvi from Israel, now playing out of Amsterdam Billiards in NYC, plays with a WD700 and talked me into trying it. The last two of three Rauenzahn cues I had made I did not order shafts. I had Jerry change out the joint collars on WD700s instead. They play great.

Also, Mika plays with them and he is the one who told Zion to switch.

Hope this helps

Wedge

 

[quadrary]

They want people to think that the lamination contributes to the LD. It gives them a better marketing stance.

Jaden

thats your claim not theirs nowhere does predator claim that the lamination is for ld characteristics what they do claim is that it is for radial consistency. Maybe ae should try one of your shafts and attribute claims to uou thst you never made.

 

[quadrary]

I strongly believe that Predator shafts feel that way because of the coring and ferrule but I could be wrong, would not be the first time. I also think most of the shafts are made using crappy material, most of those Predator shafts I have seen do not roll too well.

all three of mine are dead straight snd none are new.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Is LD and solid feel possible? Or are the 2 mutually exclusive?

My very-low-squirt hollow shaft has a stiff hit (because of its conical taper) and plenty of "communication". I think Predator's muffled hit is due mostly to its soft ferrule.

pj
chgo

 

[rayjay]

Joe Callaluca makes a fine LD solid maple shaft. My daily player is his ferrule-less, front hollowed, ferrule material that looks like a pad under the tip but has a short tenon (1/4"?) into the hollow. Hope I'm not giving out any secrets, but I'm sure he would tell you the same thing. Plays really good. Main factor is the quality/density of the wood. I also have two of Tony Scianella's ferrule-less shafts....nuff said. Talk to Joe.

 

[JMW]

Anyone out there using a solid maple LD shaft? Who would you recommend for this work? I can't get Ernie Gutierrez interested in the concept and he's way busy building huge dollar cues. I have a Predator 314 that is way LD but feels like a loaf of rye bread on the ball. I'd love a LD shaft that felt traditional.

I love my solid maple LD shafts made by Kevin Varney. Please see my review...
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=252474

 

[kvinbrwr]

Kevin, my good friend Zion Zvi from Israel, now playing out of Amsterdam Billiards in NYC, plays with a WD700 and talked me into trying it. The last two of three Rauenzahn cues I had made I did not order shafts. I had Jerry change out the joint collars on WD700s instead. They play great.

Also, Mika plays with them and he is the one who told Zion to switch.

Hope this helps

Wedge

Wedge

I just bought a Mezz with that shaft on it. If I like it I'm gonna screw it into a Szam (ducking from Barry) or something.

Thanks

Kevin