Who Is Our Real Opponent?

[Biloxi Boy]

I say that, with the exception of the leave, the role of an opposing pool player is not nearly as significant as we suppose. As pool players we compete to achieve a certain milestone before the opposing player, but our effort and performance are directed toward the table and arrayed balls which during our period of performance are not manipulated by the opposing player who is usually sitting in a chair, waiting for us to miss. I propose that pool is not mano y mano but rather mano y tabla or, conceived somewhat differently, mano y el mismo.

I have given this issue considerable thought through the years, and I have yet to come up with another sport which functions in a like manner.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I propose that pool is not mano y mano

hombre a hombre

pj
chgo

 

[justnum]

Fight for the promotion of American sports.

The world has been dominated by tyranny and religion and hate. American sports is the last refugee for individual asylum from other pressures.

 

[sjm]

In terms of maintaining focus, there's some value in thinking "play the table, not the opponent" but the adage is ultimately in error. Here's a previous post of mine on the subject.

"Play the table, not the opponent" is on the short list of the most illogical sayings in the game. Though somewhat more obvious at amateur level where more flaws are found, it's critical to play the opponent even at pro level.

For example, when you push out or play safe:

a) the bank you can leave many an opponent may not be something you are willing to leave Skyler Woodward, Dennis Orcullo or Billy Thorpe
b) the jump shot you can leave many an opponent might not be something you want to leave for Albin Ouschan, Ko Pin Yi or Jayson Shaw
c) the safety you are willing to leave available for many may not be one you can afford to leave for an Alex Pagulayan or a Justin Bergman
d) the kick you are willing to leave for many may not be one you can afford to leave for a Francisco Bustamante or Dennis Orcullo
e) the shot you are willing to leave many an opponent might not be something you can afford to leave for JL Chang, SVB or Josh Filler

Knowing your opponent's strengths and weaknesses will be a big advantage when you choose between offense and defense and also in choosing the right shot for a given situation.

In other words, you need to play both the table and the opponent if you are committed to playing the percentages. The real opponent is ... both!

 

[Black-Balled]

Fight for the promotion of American sports.

The world has been dominated by tyranny and religion and hate. American sports is the last refugee for individual asylum from other pressures.

 

[garczar]

I say that, with the exception of the leave, the role of an opposing pool player is not nearly as significant as we suppose. As pool players we compete to achieve a certain milestone before the opposing player, but our effort and performance are directed toward the table and arrayed balls which during our period of performance are not manipulated by the opposing player who is usually sitting in a chair, waiting for us to miss. I propose that pool is not mano y mano but rather mano y tabla or, conceived somewhat differently, mano y el mismo.

I have given this issue considerable thought through the years, and I have yet to come up with another sport which functions in a like manner.

Real easy to say but in the real world one's opponent has an effect, how much varies, on how you play. No one's a robot and tuning your opponent totally out is impossible imo.

 

[George the Greek]

Real easy to say but in the real world one's opponent has an effect, how much varies, on how you play. No one's a robot and tuning your opponent totally out is impossible imo.

So true! All we can do is try our best whether kicking,playing safe or trying to run out.

 

[Justaneng]

Opponent = Yourself + The Table + The Opponent

The importance of each depends on the level of play and the people involved, with the opponent being less and less important as skills go up.

Things like simple intentional fouls can be really smart plays against opponents in the Fargo 400-500 range (for instance, sending their obvious breakout ball across the table or just potting it outright), but become death sentences if your opponent is 550+ range. Meanwhile in sub Fargo 350 8-ball where the game is going to be a 7-inning scrap off no matter what it’s probably best just to chip away at the rack and not worry about tactics like that.

What I mean by yourself as an opponent: Your ability to play whatever your version of you “A” game consistently, or when you’re playing your “B” game somehow scrap out a winning performance.

 

[garczar]

So true! All we can do is try our best whether kicking,playing safe or trying to run out.

Playing a strong player that you know can do some damage if you miss will put ideas in your head. How you deal with it is the key but tuning your opponent out completely is not really doable imo. Match-play golf is same thing, supposed to just play your game but how your opponent plays has a huge effect on your own play. Human nature.

 

[L.S. Dennis]

hombre a hombre

pj
chgo

Or to put it a different way l'uomo contro l'uomo, mano a mano!

 

[George the Greek]

Playing a strong player that you know can do some damage if you miss will put ideas in your head. How you deal with it is the key but tuning your opponent out completely is not really doable imo. Match-play golf is same thing, supposed to just play your game but how your opponent plays has a huge effect on your own play. Human nature.

I lost 11-3 to Dennis H years ago in a tournament. I couldn't tune him out and I think I pissed him off and he wanted to kick the shit out of me when I called him what I thought was a foul lol

 

[couldnthinkof01]

Time

 

[sjm]

Time

Yes, but if you truly love playing pool, more to the point is that "time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time."

 

[David in FL]

hombre a hombre

pj
chgo

I tell newer players all the time. The object of the game is not to make balls. The object of the game is to beat the guy you're playing against.

 

[Island Drive]

I say that, with the exception of the leave, the role of an opposing pool player is not nearly as significant as we suppose. As pool players we compete to achieve a certain milestone before the opposing player, but our effort and performance are directed toward the table and arrayed balls which during our period of performance are not manipulated by the opposing player who is usually sitting in a chair, waiting for us to miss. I propose that pool is not mano y mano but rather mano y tabla or, conceived somewhat differently, mano y el mismo.

I have given this issue considerable thought through the years, and I have yet to come up with another sport which functions in a like manner.

Play two shot shoot out 9 or 10 ball and your statement above will become ''very clear'' about who your opponent is.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... I have given this issue considerable thought through the years, and I have yet to come up with another sport which functions in a like manner.

I would say that golf (stroke play) has even less involvement with the opponent.

 

[dquarasr]

I propose that pool is not mano y mano but rather mano y tabla or, conceived somewhat differently, mano y el mismo.

I have given this issue considerable thought through the years, and I have yet to come up with another sport which functions in a like manner.

Perhaps you meant “hombre y mesa” (man and table)? (“Tabla?” Huh? )

“Mano a mano” means hand-to-hand, as in combat.

I am not well versed in Spanish or Latin so I’m not sure if your use of “mismo” (translates as “same”) is as “los sí mismo” meaning “self”. Please enlighten me if I am in proverbial left field regarding el Español.

Oh, and other sports or games of skill pitting competitors against each other only indirectly: golf, darts, shooting, surfing, skating, …..

And while players in pool are not interacting directly against each other simultaneously, such as tennis, football, most stick and ball sports, pool does offer the ability to affect your opponent’s outcome by controlling the layout of the balls on the table you leave when your turn is over. So yes, you should play the opponent in addition to the table and your own self limitations.

 

[alphadog]

I would say that golf (stroke play) has even less involvement with the opponent.

This like the op's statement are true unless your opponent is someone like Tiger or Filler.

I play 1 pocket against better players and know my mistakes are going to be punished rather then costing me a ball or 2 against mortals.

 

[Willowbrook Wolfy]

Only time your opponent doesn’t matter is if you never miss, and everybody misses……

 

[Biloxi Boy]

The recent thread concerning “I beat myself, he didn’t beat me” was the impetus for my post. Taken to its logical extreme, this statement might be asserted as true in all sports -- "My bad eyes not his 100 mph fastball" as an excuse for striking out. Also, please recall my initial proposition: "with the exception of the leave , , , not nearly as significant as we suppose". My essential point is that when I miss it is not because of my opposition as he is not immediately involved. (Perhaps I should have also excluded psychological effects but such was more than I cared involve,)

Golf is a good example of absolute separation, again excepting, of course, the psychology of the thing. When I think about it, however, I would go so far as to say there is NO involvement with the other golfer as one is not having to shoot from the other's "leave".

Some pool games (golf, roll out, 1 pocket, and cut-throat) do have greater player/player interaction (again due to the leave or defensive play), but 14.1 is a good example of one's efforts being primarily against the table and not the person.