NOBODY had better shape than Elisa Bridges.
too bad she died of a drug overdose at age 28
Who is the all-time, best shape player?
- Thread starter Bob Callahan
- Start date
too bad she died of a drug overdose at age 28
it has to be a straight pool player. because in nine ball you can get out of line and still make the next ball most times and get out.
in straight pool when out of line unless they are wide open you are hard pressed to keep going far.
basically in straight pool you need much more precise position to do well.
in straight pool when out of line unless they are wide open you are hard pressed to keep going far.
basically in straight pool you need much more precise position to do well.
That's a tough one to nail down, but it's hard to argue against Buddy. I watched him run a 7-pack in the Olathe 10 Ball Ring Game, and never once did he get out of line. Not once. And looked effortless doing it, even though he was clearly at the tail end of his playing days.
I don't think so. If that were the case then there would be much higher runs in nine ball than in straight pool. I would argue that rotation games require much more precision simply because the player only has one ball to shoot at and using that one ball he MUST get shape on only one ball, this being the next ball in the rotation in order to continue shooting.
efren dont miss, but his speed control aint the best and he gets into trouble and shoots his way out-thats why he plays so good. he shoots hard shots all the time. Buddy dont know what a hard shot looks like.
DrOnePocket
Banned
I can't believe no one is giving Matlock love. No one controlled that big cue ball like him
Hi John:
I respect your opinion, but respectfully, I have to disagree. Short-rack rotation games -- in general, and this is merely a general statement -- get EASIER as you remove balls off the table. Straight pool, on the other hand, is the opposite -- it gets progressively more difficult as you remove balls off the table, to the point that, if you don't know how to properly handle the "last five" (the last five balls -- a crucial point in any straight pool rack), you'll easily pooch your position on the break ball.
That's why your average player -- a short-rack rotation player, no doubt -- can probably run a few racks of 9-/10-ball, but ask them to put a couple racks together in straight pool, and they can't do it, even with "all that cue ball muscle." This can be seen at any 14.1 challenge -- 9-ballers with faulty (non-existent) patterns trying to save themselves with cue ball heroics, only to overrun position on their break ball, and have no hope to get into the next rack. (This observation, btw, only applies to your average 9-baller. When you get into the upper echelon / pro players, *obviously* things play out a little differently, because these are students of all things pool, and've played more than just 9-ball -- some probably even play 14.1 in practice.) Die-hard 9-ballers find it easy to say things like how it's always position on that one-and-only-one ball on the table, but that is an altruistic (and often proven unrealistic) comparison.
What is the governor in the short-rack rotations games, is not the "one-and-only-one object ball on the table at any given time you must get position on," but rather, the break. Whereas the break in 14.1 is a carefully controlled entity that, done properly (with good patterns, and with good speed) gets you into the next rack guaranteed; the "smash 'em up" short-rack rotation break (again, a general statement) is a VARIABLE that isn't guaranteed you'll 1.) sink a ball, and 2.) get position on that lowest-numbered ball on the table.
You'll most likely not want to compare the games in the manner you have (above) until you've put up a couple 40-ish runs (i.e. beyond 3 racks). You'll find out it isn't so easy if you don't practice 14.1 often. Try it.
Again, respectfully disagreeing,
-Sean
Last edited:
I couldn't agree more.
Also, going a little more old school, how do guys like Harold Worst or Dallas West fit in. Weren't both known to have been premier position/shape players in their day?
Last edited:
Buddy and Jimmy Moore
I was fortunate enough to watch Jimmy Moore play, when I was much younger, of course. Buddy Hall was a master at sending the cue ball down "the line" to where he wanted to go. I always liked Buddy's 9ball position the best. But the best control of the cue I've ever seen was that of Jimmy Moore's. Not only could he keep it on a string......he had the most powerful stroke I've ever witnessed. I learned so much watching him play. I consider my straight pool games with Jimmy as the fondest memories of my misspent youth.
I was fortunate enough to watch Jimmy Moore play, when I was much younger, of course. Buddy Hall was a master at sending the cue ball down "the line" to where he wanted to go. I always liked Buddy's 9ball position the best. But the best control of the cue I've ever seen was that of Jimmy Moore's. Not only could he keep it on a string......he had the most powerful stroke I've ever witnessed. I learned so much watching him play. I consider my straight pool games with Jimmy as the fondest memories of my misspent youth.
Sigel would probably be second on my list behind Buddy.
Jeanette Lee, would rank pretty high on my list, as would Allison Fisher, but...what? You're talking about position play? Not body shapes?
My bad. :smile:
My bad. :smile:
thats what i mean though. efren shoots hard shots because he's so good he gets lazy from time to time. but when has he ever not gotten back in line, or missed shape on a set-winning ball. don't get me wrong, buddy hall is almost flawless when it comes to 9 ball... but efren does some things with spin and speed that are the reason people put him on a pedestal. he has his reputation for a reason and as nice as it is to cite players like buddy, mizerak, crane, mosconi, etc... efren is efren
I read this whole thread. I'm sure all of the players mentioned here played great position. In 50 years of watching a lot of real good and great players the one that stands out to me is Mosconi.Not that he was a lot better at position play then others but the way he did it effortlessly makes him the stand out.
1st choice Buddy
2nd choice Buddy
3rd choice Buddy
While Mosconi had to have most excellent position play to do what he did straight pool very often has back up shots if you get a little out not so in rotation you have one ball to shoot at every turn and buddy was always playing the right side of the ball falling into the target zone not crossing into it he just got right more than anyone including Efren IMO. When Archer was player of the 90's him and Buddy played a race to 45 and buddy made him look stupid period. He made Efren look bad for the cash. He spotted hall of famers for the big cash. And he was neveer known for the best break it was his unrivaled position play.
2nd choice Buddy
3rd choice Buddy
While Mosconi had to have most excellent position play to do what he did straight pool very often has back up shots if you get a little out not so in rotation you have one ball to shoot at every turn and buddy was always playing the right side of the ball falling into the target zone not crossing into it he just got right more than anyone including Efren IMO. When Archer was player of the 90's him and Buddy played a race to 45 and buddy made him look stupid period. He made Efren look bad for the cash. He spotted hall of famers for the big cash. And he was neveer known for the best break it was his unrivaled position play.
Last edited: