Thanks Joey, I know you didnt mean anything bad by what you said.
(Lowly banger instructor signing off, lol!)
Who is the BEST pool-playing INSTRUCTOR?
- Thread starter JoeyA
- Start date
Thanks Joey, I know you didnt mean anything bad by what you said.
(Lowly banger instructor signing off, lol!)
I can't believe it's me saying this, and if you knew me well, you'd understand the humor in what I am about to say, Ms. Crimi. Do you think you are being a little overly sensitive? JoeyA was only trying to create a thread that would conjure up some productive back-and-forth colloquy. I do not believe he meant anyone harm, to include you, or that he was intentionally trying to be mean-spirited. That is just not in his nature.
If you knew his forum personality better, as I'm sure if he knew who you were when you were hitting 'em, this entire misunderstanding would not have occurred.
Just to stay on topic of the thread, there used to be a pro player in New Jersey named Jose, I think was his name, who used to give instruction. I cannot remember his last name.
If anybody was ever fortunate enough to have taken lessons from Jimmy Reid, he is not only good about teaching fundamentals, approaching the table, addressing the ball, et cetera, et cetera, but he also taught the zen in pool, like surrounding yourself with positive people, positive vibes, and being positive about your shooting capabilities.
BTW, I'm impressed you spelled my name right! :smile:
Jimmy Reid on the left, of course!
Yep. I'm absolutely being sensitive. It's one of my best traits and one that makes me able to look at a player and know what he's thinking at the table.
I don't have anything against JoeyA. I'm sure he's a very nice guy. My point is that if you're going to start an arbitrary thread, you should maybe expect someone to call you on the carpet for it.
I hope he does wonderous things with his list, although I can't possibly imagine what it would accomplish with a criteria as arbitrary as that. In the meantime, I'll keep playing a teaching in my neck of the woods.
JAM...You're absolutely right, and I don't need "recognition"...and yes I am secure in my confidence as an effective instructor. I also can play. I've never claimed I play pro speed (best I ever did was 3rd in a national event), but I have coached other who do. I get plenty of 'strokes' from the thousands of students that I've had (hundreds of them have posted here about their positive experiences). Regardless of JoeyA's "intent" this thread comes across as smug, and a pointed "diss" at the many professional instructors who teach very effectively, yet have never played "pro speed". What pissed me off is Joey's arbitrary method of who makes the list. The best instructors are the ones out there teaching EVERY DAY...and getting paid to do it. That, allegedly was one of the most important aspects of determining "the list". Most of the names on the list now are pro players who do not teach "regularly", let alone every day.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Earl Strickland is a GREAT TEACHER... He Plays Pretty Sporty Too:thumbup: Also, Stevie Moore Teaches in SC. Frank Tullos in NC is a great teacher and good player and don't forget... Diliberto's fundamentals, one pocket, and 14.1 knowledge!
Does Earl teach on a REGULAR basis?
I believe Stevie does teach on a regular basis, so I will add him to the list also.
There are MANY players who are great teachers and who could teach all of us a lot of things but I want this list to be for top playing instructors that REGULARLY teach pool.
I don't know Frank Tullos either. Does he teach pool on a REGULAR BASIS?
I know Danny DiLiberto is a top player and a good teacher but I don't know if Danny teaches on a REGULAR BASIS.
If you say either of these three people teach on a REGULAR basis I will be happy to add them to the list.
Thanks,
JoeyA
They all teach on a regular basis... Ask Jay Helfert about Frank Tullos!
Then on the list they go.
I don't have any problem taking lessons from an instructor that does not play at pro speed. Heck, I even listen to the academics when they break it down for me.
However, I especially enjoy it when an instructor can show me as well as tell me. An instructor doesn't have to play at a professional level for me to appreciate their knowledge but when they can demonstrate it, it gives me some solace. This isn't necessarily a prerequisite for me, but it is lagniappe and I like lagniappe.
Recently, a player whom I spot the 5 ball (in 9 ball) to taught me some things that I didn't know about pool and I am always grateful for any new knowledge as to how I can improve my game. I learn wherever and whenever the teacher appears.
i thought someone would at least mention
John Brumbach
if we are talking about someone who actually teaches
more than one here another there
i would be willing to put Brumback in a all around contest
one hole,banks and 9 ball
if we could get a few others who actually teach,put up a few thousand each and play
each discipline and the all round
it would sound like a lot of fun for all of us
John Brumbach
if we are talking about someone who actually teaches
more than one here another there
i would be willing to put Brumback in a all around contest
one hole,banks and 9 ball
if we could get a few others who actually teach,put up a few thousand each and play
each discipline and the all round
it would sound like a lot of fun for all of us
Absolutely, to the list he goes.
You should send me links to all of the posts that I have made in that forum.
Go look yourself. There's someone named Joey that posts there. If it's not you, then thanks for the info. I won't think twice then to help that Joey whenever I can. You insulted my student who was kind enough to come on here and submit my name who btw, is very familiar with my game.
I've got an idea. How about you start a list of top players who teach who either currently take drugs or have taken them in the past?
How many players would be on your list?
There's quite a few BCA Hall of Famers on that list, to include quite a few industry members who post on this very forum who do and have taken drugs in the past and/or are currently taking them. What does this have to do with being one of the best pool-playing instructors? If somebody is drug-free, that doesn't mean they are the best, IMO.
I did go look. I've got one post there.
Fran, since it is YOUR IDEA, you should make your own list of top players who either currently take drugs or have taken them in the past
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Gene...Are you implying that REAL instructors that apparently don't "make the grade" for JoeyA's 'list' (which is 99% professional tournament players), have nothing legitimate to offer students? Most of this list is a crapshoot, imo. Just because someone plays pro speed doesn't mean that they can teach effectively. Tony Robles called me "one of the best instructors in the country", but apparently that's not good enough for Joey's list. Randyg is considered by MANY people (including pro players) to be the best instructor anywhere...yet I guess he doesn't make the list either. The only valid question is do you want to take lessons from a professional player...or a professional instructor. Only a few on this list qualify as both...
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
I think Gene was giving the top playing instructors their due. Just like my thread was designed to honor those instructors who regularly teach and who play at a TOP LEVEL.
When someone suggests a name, if I know the poster and know the player, I am happy to add the name. If I don't know the poster or the player or even if I only know one of them, I ask for corroborations. Some people have been insulted by this but I'm not going to change my ways.
I'm curious though if you took a strong amateur player and gave him 3 days with a good instructor for some nine ball lessons, (who doesn't play at top level speed) and then sent him over to another top level player/instructor like say, John Schmidt for another 3 days; who do you think the amateur player would say he learned the most from?
I've tried to allow everyone to offer suggestions on the top playing instructors and I am kind of shocked that John hasn't been mentioned in this thread. I didn't want to hog the posting by throwing up every top playing instructor I could think of but Schmitty's name is way overdue.
I do know from personal experience that John Schmidt gives GREAT POOL LESSONS. So up on the list he goes.
If you've got some other names of TOP PLAYING INSTRUCTORS that regularly give pool lessons, let me here them.
I would love to give honor to those overseas instructors who regularly provide lessons that we seldom hear about but who can play TOP SPEED.
I'm waiting. :smile:
Hey Joey, I believe you should ask your question this way;
GREAT instructor versus John Schmidt. I would bet that a great instructor, like Stan Shuffet, Scott Lee, Randy G, Jerry B, etc., would be able to analyze the strong amatuer player and break down his game, including mechanics, stroke and stance a lot more quickly and thus be more successful in those 3 short days.
The pro instructors have seen it a million times, and analyzed it a million times, and when they watch pool I'm pretty sure they are analyzing it even some more. Sometimes the pro's don't even know why the do something, or how to explain how they do it....
Of course, this does not mean John Schmidt would not be very successful. But if you have Pro instructors vs Pro players, I would give the edge to the pro instructors.
Just like Golf, most of the top golf instuctors are NOT top players. Very few of College football Head Coaches were ever top players. I wonder why that is ???
So, the bottom line is you have to chose wisely. If he/she is or was a top player, they really need to be in the "coaching" mode now, and not just trying to make a few bucks on the side, they need to understand and become a complete student of the game again, and ensure they are instructing correctly.
It seems odd to me that pool is put on some kind of pedestal. We are not allowed to have "aiming" systems, you need to be a "pro" to teach, etc. etc... but every other sport that is actually successful (cause pool is NOT unfortunately) have various ways, methods and analytics to teach that particular sport, not to mention those that teach/coach it have a myriad of experience and skils. And many of those "ways" are different from how someone else might teach, but they don't get attacked or thrown under the bus for it..... it's just different.....
Heck, the Cubs just hired a GM ($5M per year) who probably throws like a girl,,, after he won two world series in Boston.....
C'mon guys, we all love pool, but it certainly cannot be more complex than the rest of the sporting world, which inlcudes pro and Olympic sports. It's more of a "non athletic" sport (like bowling and darts) that requires decent hand/eye coordination, a good memory, some finess, very good eyesight, and some chess like skills to out manuever your opponent...and those that master them all rise to the top of the class. But we are not hitting 99 MPH fastballs here
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Hey Joey, I believe you should ask your question this way;
GREAT instructor versus John Schmidt. I would bet that a great instructor, like Stan Shuffet, Scott Lee, Randy G, Jerry B, etc., would be able to analyze the strong amatuer player and break down his game, including mechanics, stroke and stance a lot more quickly and thus be more successful in those 3 short days.
The pro instructors have seen it a million times, and analyzed it a million times, and when they watch pool I'm pretty sure they are analyzing it even some more. Sometimes the pro's don't even know why the do something, or how to explain how they do it....
Of course, this does not mean John Schmidt would not be very successful. But if you have Pro instructors vs Pro players, I would give the edge to the pro instructors.
Just like Golf, most of the top golf instuctors are NOT top players. Very few of College football Head Coaches were ever top players. I wonder why that is ???
So, the bottom line is you have to chose wisely. If he/she is or was a top player, they really need to be in the "coaching" mode now, and not just trying to make a few bucks on the side, they need to understand and become a complete student of the game again, and ensure they are instructing correctly.
It seems odd to me that pool is put on some kind of pedestal. We are not allowed to have "aiming" systems, you need to be a "pro" to teach, etc. etc... but every other sport that is actually successful (cause pool is NOT unfortunately) have various ways, methods and analytics to teach that particular sport, not to mention those that teach/coach it have a myriad of experience and skils. And many of those "ways" are different from how someone else might teach, but they don't get attacked or thrown under the bus for it..... it's just different.....
Heck, the Cubs just hired a GM ($5M per year) who probably throws like a girl,,, after he won two world series in Boston.....
C'mon guys, we all love pool, but it certainly cannot be more complex than the rest of the sporting world, which inlcudes pro and Olympic sports. It's more of a "non athletic" sport (like bowling and darts) that requires decent hand/eye coordination, a good memory, some finess, very good eyesight, and some chess like skills to out manuever your opponent...and those that master them all rise to the top of the class. But we are not hitting 99 MPH fastballs here
I like your thoughts. It is fun just to imagine which way the chips would fall. Like you I agree that you should not limit yourself to where and what you learn, if you are interested in becoming a complete player.(At least that's what I think you are saying)
But as far as pool being a "non athletic" sport, I disagree. The difference between bowling, darts and pool is a deep difference. In pool tournaments, players are required to be at their peak 18 hours a day, ready to be called up for a match. Often in multi-day tournaments, players sometimes are deprived of recovery sleep and if you are not in shape, you pay the price. I see those players who are in the best shape as those who generally find a way to win in multi-day tournaments. Tournament competition is GRUELING and it takes an ATHLETE to perform at their peak day in day out.
jmho
heres my thoughts , in golf the object of the game is obvious ,its 95 percent execution and 5 percent knowledge as far as strategy.
not saying golf is easier or harder,but the general idea of whats the correct play on any givin golf shot is fairly obvious its just extremely hard to do it.ive played serious golf 20 years and feel im pretty spot on with my assesments between golf and pool.they r equally difficult to play near perfect.
let me give an example if someone plays golf say 30 times i would think they have a solid idea that they want to drive the ball long straight,in fairway on green,stay in bounds,out of water etc etc.
the strategy and what u should do givin any one golf shot is fairly obvious just extremely hard to execute. hence my 95 percent execution and 5 percent stategy or knowlege.
anybody thats played golf knows if your standing on a par 3 200 yards over water,that on green is great,in water is bad, its just extremely hard to do.
thats why golf instructors all they basically work on is the swing mechanics to hit ball straight solid etc,
now lets take pool u can play pool 30 years much less 30 times and not have a good grasp on the strategy. u can have a easy pool shot but the stategy involved is not obvious on that particular shot. imho pool is 50/50 execution and knowledge.theres 15 balls and a cueball and 6 pockets versus one golf ball and one golf hole. im no math major but i promise that introduces more variables hence needing more stategy to win. this is why very high caliber poolplayers can give good lessons because they understand the stategy and physics of all the pool games the best.
so the thing is a golf instuctor has perfect knowledge of swing and a pool instructor has perfect knowledge of pool cue swing mechanics but pool requires tons of strategy and proper shot selection to go with that.
i think if somebody wants their cue swing mechanics analyzed the cue instructors would b great for that.
if a player wanted to say learn the stategy of 8,9,10,ball,1hole,14.1 and all the shot selections etc i would think the top players would give the student what they are looking for.
this is why say mark wilson and tony robles r great instructors ,they understand the cue swing mechanics and understand strategy to the fullest.
in closing all the pool instructors out there r good for the game ,they get people interested and promote the game.
also no not all top players can communicate,b patient etc
heres my thoughts , in golf the object of the game is obvious ,its 95 percent execution and 5 percent knowledge as far as strategy.
not saying golf is easier or harder,but the general idea of whats the correct play on any givin golf shot is fairly obvious its just extremely hard to do it.ive played serious golf 20 years and feel im pretty spot on with my assesments between golf and pool.they r equally difficult to play near perfect.
let me give an example if someone plays golf say 30 times i would think they have a solid idea that they want to drive the ball long straight,in fairway on green,stay in bounds,out of water etc etc.
the strategy and what u should do givin any one golf shot is fairly obvious just extremely hard to execute. hence my 95 percent execution and 5 percent stategy or knowlege.
anybody thats played golf knows if your standing on a par 3 200 yards over water,that on green is great,in water is bad, its just extremely hard to do.
thats why golf instructors all they basically work on is the swing mechanics to hit ball straight solid etc,
now lets take pool u can play pool 30 years much less 30 times and not have a good grasp on the strategy. u can have a easy pool shot but the stategy involved is not obvious on that particular shot. imho pool is 50/50 execution and knowledge.theres 15 balls and a cueball and 6 pockets versus one golf ball and one golf hole. im no math major but i promise that introduces more variables hence needing more stategy to win. this is why very high caliber poolplayers can give good lessons because they understand the stategy and physics of all the pool games the best.
so the thing is a golf instuctor has perfect knowledge of swing and a pool instructor has perfect knowledge of pool cue swing mechanics but pool requires tons of strategy and proper shot selection to go with that.
i think if somebody wants their cue swing mechanics analyzed the cue instructors would b great for that.
if a player wanted to say learn the stategy of 8,9,10,ball,1hole,14.1 and all the shot selections etc i would think the top players would give the student what they are looking for.
this is why say mark wilson and tony robles r great instructors ,they understand the cue swing mechanics and understand strategy to the fullest.
in closing all the pool instructors out there r good for the game ,they get people interested and promote the game.
also no not all top players can communicate,b patient etc