Who was all in on the infamous dumping at Challenge of Champions 1991?

cuetechasaurus

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I know of Buddy Hall dumping in the finals, and I watched the video of the semifinal of David Howard vs Lebron. Did Howard dump too? He missed a pretty easy 9ball. Was Mike Lebron involved too or did it happen without his knowledge?
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I know of Buddy Hall dumping in the finals, and I watched the video of the semifinal of David Howard vs Lebron. Did Howard dump too? He missed a pretty easy 9ball. Was Mike Lebron involved too or did it happen without his knowledge?
Do we need to rehash again?? No one really knows exactly what went down. The house made LeBron a huge dog and the inevitable happened. More than a couple were involved. Here's 42 pages worth: https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/challenge-of-champions-dump.363921/
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Earl was said to be the only one not in on the dump.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
Who really knows?? Or cares?? 30yrs ago in pool is like a million yrs. Pool didn't pay anything then and the casino set themself up for some skullduggery. Not condoning what may or may not have happened, just the way it was then. Read Helfert's take on it. He was there and has the most credible insight imo.
 
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bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I know of Buddy Hall dumping in the finals, and I watched the video of the semifinal of David Howard vs Lebron. Did Howard dump too? He missed a pretty easy 9ball. Was Mike Lebron involved too or did it happen without his knowledge?
i havent read the replies
why do you care ?
it was 30 years ago
why resurrect this?
just askin
 

cuetechasaurus

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i havent read the replies
why do you care ?
it was 30 years ago
why resurrect this?
just askin
I just watched the videos of Howard vs Lebron and then Hall vs Lebron, it made me curious as to who else was involved. I don’t see the big deal in talking about it. Most pool players know about it.

Forgot to mention, I’m also wondering if Vegas ever started allowing bets on pool again. If not, why they are still punishing a sport for something that was 30 years ago.
 
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iusedtoberich

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
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It doesn't matter. It didn't change an iota for pool, dump or no dump. All the major sports have proven dumps, points shavings, boxing throws, etc etc. They never skipped a beat, on either new bets after dumps were found, or losing fans or sponsors after dumps were found. Pool is just boring to watch. Even for us diehards. Don't think for a second if BH ran out the entire tournament (every rack of every match) that pool would be any different today.
 

sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
This subject has been dealt with at great length on the forum, and there is no new information since.. I remember the incident well.

I disagree with IUSEDTOBERICH, however. Although in the context of the Mirage Sportsbook handle, they took a very modest loss booking this event, this event did impact the sport of pool.

The Mirage, which was only about a year old at the time, was making a huge effort to host sporting events on its Vegas property, with the centerpiece being boxing, for which they built a new venue. The idea was to bring action to its sportsbook, and obtaining the Challenge of Champions was a small part of their strategy. There may be a few who still believe that what happened was on the level, but in the end the only opinion that mattered was that of the Mirage, and they didn't like what they saw. When the contract ran out a few years later, not surprisingly, Mirage didn't renew the event, and word spread quickly that booking pool was a dangerous proposition. Mirage would have had every reason to grow the event, and the prize money, which was already very good in that event, would likely have risen even higher over time.

Hence, even for those few who think it was all on the level, there is no denying that this was a missed opportunity for pro pool. Snooker has a big handle in the UK, and the Mosconi Cup is also a bettable event there. People have an appetite to bet on cuesports, but this incident has a lot to do with why casino sportsbooks in America don't take action on pool. First impressions count, and pool had a bad debut at the Mirage.
 
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HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Wow, talk about an oblivious post
The guy constantly complains about other people posting something that may have been posted years before.

So what?

There is no requirement to search a million posts to bring up a subject that you may want to talk about.

When somebody does that, then somebody else gives them hell and says something like, “you know that post is 10 years old, don’t you?”

For all you know, there may be something new. Like maybe Buddy said, “hell yeah, I threw the match!”
 

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Earl was said to be the only one not in on the dump.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
Earl was not one of the 8 players in that event that year. Here is how the 7 matches went:

1991 Challenge of Champions, First Round:
Hall def. Hopkins 5-3​
Lebron d. Rempe 5-4​
Davenport d. Sigel 5-4​
Howard d. Varner 5-0​

Second Round (Semi-Finals):
Hall d. Davenport 5-3​
Lebron d. Howard 5-3​

Finals:
Lebron d. Hall 9-8​
 

Andy Hughes

Registered
The Mirage took bets on the tournament for another 4 years. Here is my ticket from 1995.
 

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cuetechasaurus

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Do you think there is any new information since 2014? Come on?
I don’t remember that topic. I think that was during a time I stopped posting here, I only came back recently. I don’t really get the frustration you and the other guy are demonstrating. This is a discussion forum, if you don’t like a topic then don’t click. Though the previous topic posted here will do just fine for the information I’m looking for.
 

cuetechasaurus

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The guy constantly complains about other people posting something that may have been posted years before.

So what?

There is no requirement to search a million posts to bring up a subject that you may want to talk about.

When somebody does that, then somebody else gives them hell and says something like, “you know that post is 10 years old, don’t you?”

For all you know, there may be something new. Like maybe Buddy said, “hell yeah, I threw the match!”
Yea I don’t understand why this bothers them.
 
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