Whom, is credited with inventing low deflection shafts?

Cornerman said:
Yes.

But I think to the OP, "low deflection" was being marketed by Bob Meucci before Clawson Cues. Clawson (Alan and Steve) just had the game-changing attribute, however.
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Bob was my thought as well. I don't know who has the patent, but with the 3/8 tenon and the thin walled ferrule I would guess Meucci was first to make, and later market a shaft with reduced end mass. I wonder if he ever thought about, or experimented with a shorter ferrule. Interesting question.
 
JoeyInCali said:
Did it show less squirt or more English ?
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The machine was built to repeat the same hit/english and it had a laser red dot for machine center. You could see the amount of deflection from the dot. It was very amuseing to watch and he would put any cue in it from customs to mass produced. He pulled no punchs and challenged any cuemaker to put a cue in the machine. If anyone knows more then me about it please post. King James was with him a couple of times at the booth.
 
lorider said:
it seems like the disdain people have for the apparent decline in quality that meucci produces today clouds their judgement of the innovator and pioneer bob was in his early days.
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He was an innovator, no doubt, and he was onto deflection, but he didn't entirely understand what affects it.

He was probably one step away from figuring out why his shafts deflected less than others, but he missed it.

Here - read this explanation he wrote - many wrong assumptions and this was written back in 1999 after Predator's were already out there cleaning up the market. Not a single reference to end mass. From Meucci's website:


Cue ball deflection will vary from very little (1/8 of an inch in the span of 8 feet) to a whopping 1 1/2 inches in the same span. These variations are a result of three factors;
1. How far off center the cue ball is struck (left or right); the more off center,
the more deflection.
2. The hardness of the surface striking the ball (tip & ferrule) creating varying levels of shock.
3. How much force is used when the ball is struck. The more force applied by speed of stroke, the greater the deflection.
Therefore, when selecting a cue for maximum deflection (which is highly undesirable in my opinion), get one with a stiffly-tapered shaft and a soft tip (13 1/2mm or larger). It should also have a very hard ferrule such as ivory or a phenolic resin type material and a stiff butt-joint such as steel.

Strike the cue ball off-center 3/8 of an inch; hit it hard and you’ll get maximum deflection. The cue ball will veer off-path from the direction the shaft is pointed by 1 1/2 inches in an 8 ft. span, missing the entire object ball when aiming center to center.

Obviously, any player, given enough time, can program his mental computer to make allowances for all deflection variations, if he is playing all the time and in perfect stroke. He can get by with it. In reality, the player has unwittingly handicapped himself.

Through an evolution of trial and error, players in the past discovered inexplicably that they could play better with a smaller mm tip. They dealt with poorly designed cues made with ivory ferrules, steel joints, and improper tapers by reducing the shaft size down to as small as 12mm, they put some flex back into the shaft and unknowingly reduced deflection; unfortunately, at the same time to some degree they also lost the ability to make long shots by having less tip surface and less control, which is only accomplished by using a larger tip.

At Meucci Originals, our focus has always been first and foremost the play of the cue. Secondly, a tasteful design and value for the dollar spent. With that in mind, it should be easy to understand why we designed a shaft with a special Pro-Taper to dramatically reduce deflection yet still enable a full tip size of 12 3/4 mm to 13 1/8 mm to give more control.

If you are looking for minimum cue ball deflection, you will need a cue with a soft/flexible ferrule which will absorb shock and allow the tip to wipe across the ball. The cue should also have a flexible shaft and a plastic joint.

 
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Palmetto cue said:
Bob was my thought as well. I don't know who has the patent, but with the 3/8 tenon and the thin walled ferrule I would guess Meucci was first to make, and later market a shaft with reduced end mass. I wonder if he ever thought about, or experimented with a shorter ferrule. Interesting question.
Click to expand...
Actually, reduced-end-mass shafts were being made by 1980 to get reduced squirt, but not mass-produced, and it was not understood exactly why they had less squirt. The technique was simple: remove the ferrule.
 
Wedge said:
Design Your Dream - 09-30-2010, 03:35 PM
I am starting a new thread call Design Your Dream. I am offering the opportunity for anyone, player, cuemaker, collector, interested party to design the cue of their dreams. I will make it free of charge no matter what the price.

The rules are simple:

Present your design online on the AZ Billiards Main forum or the Cue and Case Gallery forum.

No gold, diamonds or other precious stones.

The design must consist of the usual cue materials. wood, ivory, silver, etc.

It can be as plain or as fancy as you like.

After a certain period, I will pick the 5 top designs.

Anyone that submitted a design can then vote for the design they like best.

I will make that design and present it to the winner at no charge.

Bill Stroud
Click to expand...

Give it a rest…My Lady.

My-Lady-Boss.jpg

You seem to be the only backhoe that still has her panties in a wad?

This "might" help you climb out of that hole?

ditch witch.jpg

Bob Jewett said:
Actually, reduced-end-mass shafts were being made by 1980 to get reduced squirt, but not mass-produced, and it was not understood exactly why they had less squirt. The technique was simple: remove the ferrule.
Click to expand...

So... Chuck Starky has it right…ferrule-less is the way to go? I smoke piece pipes.
chuck.jpg
ferr-less.jpg
 
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I have a shaft that was made by Bob Meucci that I think plays way better than a 314-2 and I have both. I also think it deflects less than the 3-14-2.

The Meucci Pro shaft that I have is not laminiated, but he does offer a laminated version with more forward weight. I have never tried that version.

The shaft has the long Meucci pro taper and a short ferrule and it is fitted for a 3/8-10 pin.

I use it on a RS-11 McDermott butt.

I call it my "McMeucci".
 
TATE said:
He was an innovator, no doubt, and he was onto deflection, but he didn't entirely understand what affects it.

He was probably one step away from figuring out why his shafts deflected less than others, but he missed it.

Here - read this explanation he wrote - many wrong assumptions and this was written back in 1999 after Predator's were already out there cleaning up the market. Not a single reference to end mass. From Meucci's website:


Cue ball deflection will vary from very little (1/8 of an inch in the span of 8 feet) to a whopping 1 1/2 inches in the same span. These variations are a result of three factors;
1. How far off center the cue ball is struck (left or right); the more off center,
the more deflection.
2. The hardness of the surface striking the ball (tip & ferrule) creating varying levels of shock.
3. How much force is used when the ball is struck. The more force applied by speed of stroke, the greater the deflection.
Therefore, when selecting a cue for maximum deflection (which is highly undesirable in my opinion), get one with a stiffly-tapered shaft and a soft tip (13 1/2mm or larger). It should also have a very hard ferrule such as ivory or a phenolic resin type material and a stiff butt-joint such as steel.

Strike the cue ball off-center 3/8 of an inch; hit it hard and you’ll get maximum deflection. The cue ball will veer off-path from the direction the shaft is pointed by 1 1/2 inches in an 8 ft. span, missing the entire object ball when aiming center to center.

Obviously, any player, given enough time, can program his mental computer to make allowances for all deflection variations, if he is playing all the time and in perfect stroke. He can get by with it. In reality, the player has unwittingly handicapped himself.

Through an evolution of trial and error, players in the past discovered inexplicably that they could play better with a smaller mm tip. They dealt with poorly designed cues made with ivory ferrules, steel joints, and improper tapers by reducing the shaft size down to as small as 12mm, they put some flex back into the shaft and unknowingly reduced deflection; unfortunately, at the same time to some degree they also lost the ability to make long shots by having less tip surface and less control, which is only accomplished by using a larger tip.

At Meucci Originals, our focus has always been first and foremost the play of the cue. Secondly, a tasteful design and value for the dollar spent. With that in mind, it should be easy to understand why we designed a shaft with a special Pro-Taper to dramatically reduce deflection yet still enable a full tip size of 12 3/4 mm to 13 1/8 mm to give more control.

If you are looking for minimum cue ball deflection, you will need a cue with a soft/flexible ferrule which will absorb shock and allow the tip to wipe across the ball. The cue should also have a flexible shaft and a plastic joint.

Click to expand...

Thanks for posting that. It feels good to see a confirmation that I remembered it correctly.
 
I know Richard Black knew about "squirt" and "deflection" as far back as 1978. I had him make me a cue in 1978 and it came with a little 2-page brochure that he typed up called, "The Care And Feeding Of A Fine Pool Cue" (or something to that effect) and there was something in it, or accompaninig it, that talked about squirt and deflection. I have never heard of him trying to make a LD shaft though.
 
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