why are the british the best in the world?

[midnightpulp]

If this game reverted to thick cloth...I'd have to quit.
It's not just having to slug ball like a Neanderthal, it reduces the choices for even the
best players....therefore lowering the standards of the game.

The snooker world finally snapped to this, the faster cloth is one of the reasons for more
centuries....along with the natural growth of prowess by the players.

A lot of AZers like to hear the stories of the famous Rack in Detroit....at it's peak when
Gil Elias owned it, the cloth on all tables was FASTER than Simonis 760.

Many good rooms had fast cloth, the shoddiest rooms used cheap heavy cloth.
Many of the tournaments were subject to what the sponsors allowed for, so many were
played on cheap heavy cloth also.
What the hell is there to be nostalgic about?... It was like putting on an unmoved green.

Don't get me wrong, I like playing on fast cloth too, but what I'm lamenting lately is the move toward cookie cutter accuracy mechanics (all the modern Europeans have the exact same, snooker oriented fundamentals). Players like Earl, Reyes, Busta, with their un-textbook, unique styles that they had to develop out of necessity to accommodate a variety of conditions are a dying breed. The Filipinos still have artistic strokes, but before long, the chin-on-the-cue, pause-during-backstroke, open-handed-bridge even during long shots, shorter-tighter stroke will be the standard.

Not to talk down anyone, but Landon Shuffett is a good example of the trend. So mechanical and robotic.

Maybe make the tour like golf or something, and have a variety of different types of tables on every stop.

 

[sjm]

The biggest edge the British have is the use of the metric system.

 

[pt109]

The biggest edge the British have is the use of the metric system.

That would really mess up Al Jolson's act...
..."i'd walk a million kilometers for one of your smiles...". :yikes:

 

[Ron Swanson]

Not that many constructive answers to the question: "Why are the British best in the world?"
It`s pretty easy to answer: Because they have coaches and pick up talents at an early age.

Thanks for answering what is after all a perfectly reasonable question, but i disagree. We had a couple of what i believe will be seen as freak generations of unbelievable cueists, and few if any will have been coached, or at least not until their talent was well and truly established.

We don't/didn't have structured, organised training regimes. The vast majority of our greatest players learned to develop naturally, on their own. Those coaching processes are in place today, to an extent, but i don't see tomorrow's players as being anywhere near the standard of today's. In short, the talent pool is regressing, despite greater information and more widespread coaching than in the past.

Why this is, i don't know.

 

[Ron Swanson]

If this game reverted to thick cloth...I'd have to quit.
It's not just having to slug ball like a Neanderthal, it reduces the choices for even the
best players....therefore lowering the standards of the game.

The snooker world finally snapped to this, the faster cloth is one of the reasons for more
centuries....along with the natural growth of prowess by the players.

A lot of AZers like to hear the stories of the famous Rack in Detroit....at it's peak when
Gil Elias owned it, the cloth on all tables was FASTER than Simonis 760.

Many good rooms had fast cloth, the shoddiest rooms used cheap heavy cloth.
Many of the tournaments were subject to what the sponsors allowed for, so many were
played on cheap heavy cloth also.
What the hell is there to be nostalgic about?... It was like putting on an unmoved green.

It is far easier playing on slow cloth. Many americans don't seem to understand the importance of control, and how hard controlling the CB is on fast cloths.

 

[ivicafranic]

British are very good in Polo and riding in general but in pool they are just ok,nothing more.
There are few good ones and some of them have already escaped to States to improve theirs game and to be parts of bigger action.
In Snooker they are best,but you must know that in some countries in Europe Snooker tables are forbidden so in those countries you actually can't play snooker on a snooker table.:boring2::embarrassed2:
Anyway,I have met a few guys from Britain who was actually very good at chess what surprised me a lot:smile:
Donny is one of them:thumbup:

 

[pt109]

It is far easier playing on slow cloth. Many americans don't seem to understand the importance of control, and how hard controlling the CB is on fast cloths.

I think you got this backwards....or are you just testing me?

It was Britain that was slow about catching onto fast cloth.Before I went to Britain, I was
playing on 26 oz. snooker cloth....and 21 oz. pool cloth.
I then had to learn to play on 40 oz. snooker cloth...the fastest was 35 oz.
It took many years for Britain to realize the value of fast cloth....way too long.

The old time slow cloth that pool players are talking about is only 24 to 26 oz.....
....and I hate it because the spin wears out too quick, thereby reducing your options...
....especially at slow speeds.

 

[midnightpulp]

It is far easier playing on slow cloth. Many americans don't seem to understand the importance of control, and how hard controlling the CB is on fast cloths.

You don't really know much about this game, do you?

Be honest now, you just took up a cue sport in the last 5 years or so?

Every pool player here will rave about the transition from the nap we had in the past to the cloth we have today. As well as the rubber. And no one wants to go back. No longer do you have to hit a 20 degree'd angle shot 100 miles per hour to get it back to down the table. And you can get away with playing poorer position because you can "stroke" your way to a larger variety of areas.

Skip to 50:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOHsEuoUFwQ

That power draw shot was something that used to take a lot of skill and hours and hours to master. Now C players can pull it off with 1/3rd of the stroke.

I'd like it to see slow conditions come back in some instances just to see players let their strokes out again.

 

[midnightpulp]

Thanks for answering what is after all a perfectly reasonable question, but i disagree. We had a couple of what i believe will be seen as freak generations of unbelievable cueists, and few if any will have been coached, or at least not until their talent was well and truly established.

We don't/didn't have structured, organised training regimes. The vast majority of our greatest players learned to develop naturally, on their own. Those coaching processes are in place today, to an extent, but i don't see tomorrow's players as being anywhere near the standard of today's. In short, the talent pool is regressing, despite greater information and more widespread coaching than in the past.

Why this is, i don't know.

Great post, actually.

Although I disagree that the UK cuesport talent is regressing. Judd Trump is Earl on a Snooker table and has the kind of rockstar appeal that could draw more youth into the game. Darren could possibly influence more young players to take up pool. And with the UK being a relatively small country land wise, it's easy to have pool/snooker halls within walking/tube distance for people who want to take up the game and play regularly against others.

But the bolded quote is 100% dead on accurate concerning our cuesport scene. The great old players lived and slept in pool halls during their formative years, and often gambled for pretty high dollars, and then they were taken on the road for further seasoning. You don't develop that kind of killer instinct/grace under pressure learning from instructors and then playing a few tournaments a year. Add to that these young players have little desire to play professionally (because no money in it) and it's a recipe for regression.

As our most talented Junior Female player said:

I also plan to continue playing the BCA Nationals, USBTC, and would like to play at the Chinook Winds Tournament and possibly qualify to play a few WPBA events, even though I have no desire to become a future Professional.

It's become a hobby for talented kids, like video games, until they move on.

 

[alstl]

I think you got this backwards....or are you just testing me?

It was Britain that was slow about catching onto fast cloth.Before I went to Britain, I was
playing on 26 oz. snooker cloth....and 21 oz. pool cloth.
I then had to learn to play on 40 oz. snooker cloth...the fastest was 35 oz.
It took many years for Britain to realize the value of fast cloth....way too long.

The old time slow cloth that pool players are talking about is only 24 to 26 oz.....
....and I hate it because the spin wears out too quick, thereby reducing your options...
....especially at slow speeds.

Our British friend is trolling. He reminds me of the character English Bob in the movie the Unforgiven.

Wish him a happy Independence Day.

 

[KRJ]

Our British friend is trolling. He reminds me of the character English Bob in the movie the Unforgiven.

Wish him a happy Independence Day.

Good comparison, though English Bob could "bring it" when it was time to shoot. I'm pretty sure our little green fruit friend could never "bring it"

 

[alstl]

Good comparison, though English Bob could "bring it" when it was time to shoot. I'm pretty sure our little green fruit friend could never "bring it"

English Bob was a little worse for wear and tear by the end of the movie.

One thing I'll say for the English, they don't lack confidence. After they got it handed to them in 1776 they came back for more in 1812 with a similar result.

But, happy Independence Day to our English friend.

 

[KRJ]

English Bob was a little worse for wear and tear by the end of the movie.

One thing I'll say for the English, they don't lack confidence. After they got it handed to them in 1776 they came back for more in 1812 with a similar result.

But, happy Independence Day to our English friend.

Could you imagine us drinking warm beer on the 4th of any month

 

[Ron Swanson]

Our British friend is trolling. He reminds me of the character English Bob in the movie the Unforgiven.

Wish him a happy Independence Day.

I'm trolling because i think slower cloths are easier to play on than faster ones?

British players have strokes, you know. See rest of thread for more.

 

[midnightpulp]

I'm trolling because i think slower cloths are easier to play on than faster ones?

British players have strokes, you know. See rest of thread for more.

Yes you are. You can poll this site, and no one, British or otherwise (aside from you, I guess) would want to go back to slow cloth, slow rubber, even the well maintained kind featured on the IPT.

And since snooker went to faster cloth, the amount of centuries and 147s has risen greatly.

Like I said earlier, you must be new to the game (past 5 years) to believe this. Faster conditions are much easier to play on because you can cut down on your use of the power stroke significantly. Hard strokes are where you typically get in trouble in any cue sport, and modern conditions have greatly marginalized their use. You don't have to go beyond a medium stroke 98% of the time.

 

[Ron Swanson]

Yes you are. You can poll this site, and no one, British or otherwise (aside from you, I guess) would want to go back to slow cloth, slow rubber, even the well maintained kind featured on the IPT.

And since snooker went to faster cloth, the amount of centuries and 147s has risen greatly.

Like I said earlier, you must be new to the game (past 5 years) to believe this. Faster conditions are much easier to play on because you can cut down on your use of the power stroke significantly. Hard strokes are where you typically get in trouble in any cue sport, and modern conditions have greatly marginalized their use. You don't have to go beyond a medium stroke 98% of the time.

Erm, doesn't virtually everyone around here want to go back to slow cloths?

Nice deflection, though. Cue like the british and it doesn't matter what speed the cloth is. I'm sorry you've missed the point of this thread.

 

[midnightpulp]

Erm, doesn't virtually everyone around here want to go back to slow cloths?

Nice deflection, though. Cue like the british and it doesn't matter what speed the cloth is. I'm sorry you've missed the point of this thread.

No. And if people want to go back to slow cloths, it's in the interest of making the game harder, which would be nice, since snooker converts wouldn't be able to do much, as we saw at the IPT, playing on slow cloth where you need a stroke. I think you'd even be able to play better than Jimmy White did in that tourney.

 

[TheMadScientist]

Let's see how they do in one pocket, the American gambling game.

 

[j_zippel]

Erm, doesn't virtually everyone around here want to go back to slow cloths?



Nice deflection, though. Cue like the british and it doesn't matter what speed the cloth is. I'm sorry you've missed the point of this thread.

Can you cue like the British?

 

[ivicafranic]

British are the best in producing,making,building the most quality umbrellas in the world:smile::smile::smile:
They are very famous for this ability