Why can't women play as good as men?

[Cornerman]

What do breasts have to do with shooting pool?

If you've never seen it, then you haven't been looking. And of course they affect women.

As for balance, the otherwise slight, though undeniably endowed, Karen Corr manages superb balance and shotmaking ability. She's about as extreme an example as you'll find, and she manages splendidly.

Averages. We're talking about the average. Only in examining the average can we have an understanding of the extremes.

The idea of lower center of gravity is a common, very well understood sport concept. The average woman has a lower center of gravity. This has to do with muscle structure and proportion.

Let's not make this discussin something that it's not, please.

Fred

 

[Cornerman]

If one follows this "logic" then I suppose that a beer belly on a man should enhance his alignment and balance when playing pool.

Well I certainly didn't imply that this would be the case.

Fred

 

[tedkaufman]

If one follows this "logic" then I suppose that a beer belly on a man should enhance his alignment and balance when playing pool.

I hope you weren't looking for a serious response to this statement.

 

[justnum]

THIS IS NOT A GENERALIZATION

observations I have made

when it comes to study habits some girls think that by going to a class and listening for an hour then should know everything there is. Then comes test time and they are sure of how to get the answer but all the methods they use are subject to mistake.

They dont practice the material enough on their and dont want to explore the methods not discussed in class. And others are so smart that they dont need to practice because they can think there way through it but still make simple mistakes.

Most common mistake people second guess their instincts by overthinking.

 

[tedkaufman]

If you've never seen it, then you haven't been looking. And of course they affect women.

You haven't in any way explained how a woman's breasts could interfer with her pool stroke. I am not talking about a woman who just picked up a pool stick for the first time and faces the cueball square on as if she were pitching horseshoes. The women we are talking about--pros who might compeat with top males--will have excellent mechanics, which places the cuestick under their shoulders, not between or on their breasts. Point out even one top female who's breasts interfer with her stroke.


Averages. We're talking about the average. Only in examining the average can we have an understanding of the extremes.

The idea of lower center of gravity is a common, very well understood sport concept. The average woman has a lower center of gravity. This has to do with muscle structure and proportion.

We're not talking average. We are talking exceptional--a woman who could compeat with men. Nothing average about that woman at all. Moreover, this is pool we are talking about, not interior linemen playing football. You have offered nothing to support your statements. Nothing.

Let's not make this discussin something that it's not, please.

You make outrageous claims, then when they are challenged you don't want a discussion? Whatever. I guess if I weren't able to substantiate my claims I would head for the exit too.

Fred

*************************

 

[Chris]

THIS IS NOT A GENERALIZATION

observations I have made

when it comes to study habits some girls think that by going to a class and listening for an hour then should know everything there is. Then comes test time and they are sure of how to get the answer but all the methods they use are subject to mistake.

They dont practice the material enough on their and dont want to explore the methods not discussed in class. And others are so smart that they dont need to practice because they can think there way through it but still make simple mistakes.

Most common mistake people second guess their instincts by overthinking.

If it's not true 100% of the time, it is a generalization. I've seen plenty of females study hard and do well on exams, often better than their male counterparts, even in Maths and Science.

 

[Harvywallbanger]

Well, I wanna know why WOMEN are better than men at sewing and cleaning???

Because we don't have time for that kind of stuff. We would rather buy a cool shirt than make one. Rest ashured if we wanted to we could do it just as good.

I have been reading the replies and thinking about this. I think all of the suggested theories could have an impact but I am leaning towards they just dont have as good eye/hand cordination. Period!

And its proven in everyday life not just sports. Driving for instance takes eye/hand cordination and we ALL know how bad our tempers can fly when our wife or girlfriend is behind the wheel! You have to practically babysit them to get somewhere. And video games! ALL eye/hand cordination. When was the last time your girl could beat you in a video game? If you can remember its time to sell your console. Take a friendly game of baseball or wiffle ball for instance. Even without the power they still just can't put the bat on the ball. I'm talking on average here so don't hit me with rare exceptions.

Now I know I was just being a little funny there with some of that stuff and taking cheap shots at the lovely ladies out there(in a pure inocent way but when you think about it its true. Isn't it?

 

[duke@neo.rr.com]

can of worms

deleted by me

 

[RiverCity]

I am leaning towards they just don't have as good eye/hand coordination. Period!

There are no facts to substantiate any of these type of statements. People are driven by stereotypes and values they have been taught. Society has an image that women are softer, less coordinated etc. My wife and I were having a discussion about this topic in general today, and we got to talking about babies as well. If you go to uncivilized countries, there are the hunters/gatherers and the nesting/caretaking rolls. That is biological. It follows into most mammal species. What isn't there is a soft societies ideas about how a persons sex affects who they are and what they do. They do what they do to survive, and its easier to do what comes naturally. An infant who experiences pain is coddled in this country, and told "its ok to cry" etc..... in other parts of the world, the baby may be comforted momentarily, but it is made clear that pain and such are a part of life, get used to it and deal with it.
My 5'2" daughter is in college and works at a heavy equipment tool rental company in the yard. When she was younger, she pitched fish on the docks in the summer. We raised her to be a little tougher and work a little harder than most.
But back to the main subject here, I am not a feminist.... far from it. But there is no reason a female cant play as well as a male if the situation is the same. Meaning, say they start young, both are encouraged, both are taught the right way to play etc and both practice and play the same amounts. It is not biological folks. I know several female athletes, shooters, dart players and pool players that can reign over pretty much most of their male counterparts.
Chuck

 

[justnum]

i did said these are observations and not generalizations.

After grading about a few semesters of math(thinking processes) exams it is easy to tell who glossed over for formulas. The ones who read the material understood core concepts. And the few that actually took the time to struggle through some examples and understand the material.

It applies to both males and females.

Some guys I know are more comfortable barely passing but putting in a lot more time at the weight room then the library.

Girls do dominate in the liberal and english oriented subjects.

 

[Chris]

i did said these are observations and not generalizations.

After grading about a few semesters of math(thinking processes) exams it is easy to tell who glossed over for formulas. The ones who read the material understood core concepts. And the few that actually took the time to struggle through some examples and understand the material.

It applies to both males and females.

Some guys I know are more comfortable barely passing but putting in a lot more time at the weight room then the library.

Girls do dominate in the liberal and english oriented subjects.

So when you said:

when it comes to study habits some girls think that by going to a class and listening for an hour then should know everything there is. Then comes test time and they are sure of how to get the answer but all the methods they use are subject to mistake.

you meant to say:

"when it comes to study habits some students think that by going to a class and listening for an hour then should know everything there is. Then comes test time and they are sure of how to get the answer but all the methods they use are subject to mistake."

Am I understanding you correctly this time?

 

[justnum]

your correction is well stated.

in my defense I didnt do very well in english.

 

[Chris]

your correction is well stated.

in my defense I didnt do very well in english.

In fairness, after College Algebra, female enrollment in Maths classes seems to steady decrease.

I think it has more to do with interest than ability, but I'm not sure. I do know I've seen females struggle less through classes that have caused me problems, and I generally do pretty well in Maths.

 

[justnum]

math is a very interesting subject, people just dont see it sparkle until they can get past all the funny language and notation.

 

[Chris]

Math is a very interesting subject, people just dont see it sparkle until they can get past all the funny language and notation.

There, I fixed that for you!

One of the things that turns people away from Mathematics, I think, is that the application seems limited until Trigonometry and Calculus. Only then do students begin to realize that EVERYTHING is mathematics.

I'm especially surprised to see few mathematicians in pool, since I can't think of a single aspect of the game, with the possible exception of concentration, that is not maths related. Maths can even help us understand the best place to grip our cue for the desired effect on each shot. To me, that's pretty damn cool.

 

[justnum]

you just made my hit list. I bring bad news poorly so oh well.

recently Ive been brought up to speed on something called graph theory that plus billiards I think I could pull of a dissertation on it. Imagine the billable research hours.

 

[onepocketchump]

I'll tell you exactly why. Because none of them bet high. They rarely do, and it's rarely more than for a thousand or two. Every single male professional pool player gambles, with the exception of Tony Robles, and perhaps one or two more. But the rest of them, they all bet high. Earl used to, but he quit. Tournament pressure and gambling pressure are two different things. Compare the women players of today to Jean Balukas. She used to gamble alot, didn't she? And she supposedly played just like the men. The WPBA doesn't allow gambling, and that's why the women are inferior to men in this sport.

BS. There are plenty of top players who don't gamble. And there are plenty of women who do bet high. Rachel Abbink has probably had more money in action than most other pool players in the last five years. None of that gambling has improved her game noticeably. Sarah Rousey gambles, Jennifer Chen plays big money matches.

If, by "women don't bet high" you mean that they don't bet high against the top men, you're right they don't. Neither do the top men "bet high" against each other. That's right I said it. I challenge you to find any signifigant numbers of top men's players gambling against each other for any signifigant amounts. Sure you hear once in while of so-and-so betting for 10 or 20 thousand but it's almost always second tier players playing each other. And none of these guys bet their own money so they are exactly gambling there either.

If you think that betting high makes one the best player then Tony Watson should be leading the IPT board right now. Where's John Macias at the IPT? He's OUT.

The ONLY reason women don't play as well as men ON AVERAGE is purely and only because of the numbers of men who are able to devote signifigant time to pool is FAR greater than the number of women who are able to do so. Consequently there are far more men playing than there are women.

Why are the players in North Carolina better than the ones in Arkansas? It's because there are a lot more players in North Carolina and subsequently a lot more good and great players. The talent pool is deeper with more players having more access to better competition and so the average skill level is higher. Has nothing to do with whether the players in Arkansas bet more on average than the players in North Carolina. Can any one player in Arkansas hang with the best players in North Carolina? Sure. Will that one player be able to beat the best NC players all the time? Of course not. Will the best player in NC win more in Arkansas? Yes. All the time? No. It's numbers only.

John

 

[jay helfert]

I hope I don't get slaughtered for this but it is something I was wondering. What stops the women from getting to the level of play the men do in this sport? I'm not trying to stir anything up, just looking at reality here folks, so like I said...be kind. I would really like to know a serious answer.

Is it because of they're build?

Is it possible that on an average women just don't have as good eye/hand cordination as men?

Could it be simply because there are far more men than women pool players so of course the majority of men will be better. But this still doesn't explaine why at least one of them hasn't made it to men level. Yes I know...I know Allison is awesome.

Does anyone else know any other possible reasons or maybe even a good explanation?

Actually, THEY CAN! I have long said that one of the beauties of this sport is that there is no mental or physical reason why a woman can't play as well as a man.

Twenty years ago, Jean Balukas terrorized the men players, and present day there are several women liable to win a match against any man. Allison, Karen and Jeanette come to mind first. Karen especially has an excellent track record against men, and Jeanette has beaten many top players in 9-Ball, One Pocket, Eight Ball and Banks.

 

[twilight]

There are no facts to substantiate any of these type of statements. People are driven by stereotypes and values they have been taught. Society has an image that women are softer, less coordinated etc. My wife and I were having a discussion about this topic in general today, and we got to talking about babies as well. If you go to uncivilized countries, there are the hunters/gatherers and the nesting/caretaking rolls. That is biological. It follows into most mammal species. What isn't there is a soft societies ideas about how a persons sex affects who they are and what they do. They do what they do to survive, and its easier to do what comes naturally. An infant who experiences pain is coddled in this country, and told "its ok to cry" etc..... in other parts of the world, the baby may be comforted momentarily, but it is made clear that pain and such are a part of life, get used to it and deal with it.
My 5'2" daughter is in college and works at a heavy equipment tool rental company in the yard. When she was younger, she pitched fish on the docks in the summer. We raised her to be a little tougher and work a little harder than most.
But back to the main subject here, I am not a feminist.... far from it. But there is no reason a female cant play as well as a male if the situation is the same. Meaning, say they start young, both are encouraged, both are taught the right way to play etc and both practice and play the same amounts. It is not biological folks. I know several female athletes, shooters, dart players and pool players that can reign over pretty much most of their male counterparts.
Chuck

Knowing a few female athletes and having a wonderful daughter are what you call outliers. they don't follow the general curve. When you talk about sex differences you can't compare one or two women to the male general population. If you pick the best of one sex, you should pick the best of the other. This is why you need to speak in general terms, and there are always exceptions to the rule. I know a woman that can powerlift more than any man I've ever met, but here I'm comparing her to a general sample of men. Lets say she's the strongest woman alive, then we need to compare her to the strongest man. If we compare the top 3 female pool players then we need to compare them to the top 3 men. This is not a good way to measure differences, that is why you need to compare the average woman to the average man.

And there actually are differences in males and females that have can not be explained sociologically. Here's one example I can think of: hormone levels can affect certain skills. It's easier if I can post the scan below than explain it in words, but the general idea is, women don't do as well in some tests, but some women with high testosterone will do better than men. Is the link hormonal? well, then there are tests that women don't do better in regardless of hormone levels.

I can think of more but I don't want to bore anyone. Studies have been done, by many universities and there ARE differences that have no explanation other than inherent biological differences. You know this wouldn't be such a hot topic if it were something like, why don't men keep their cues as in good condition as women; where women do better than men.

 

[Scott Lee]

The ONLY reason women don't play as well as men ON AVERAGE is purely and only because of the numbers of men who are able to devote signifigant time to pool is FAR greater than the number of women who are able to do so. Consequently there are far more men playing than there are women.

John

John...You know you're right, and a group of us here know you're right. You can't reason with most of these other guys. They would much rather believe it has to be something physical or mental, than just numbers. Their egos won't allow them to think any other way. But it's beating a dead horse...we've been through these threads a thousand times, and it's always the same. Someday they'll be proven wrong...

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com