Why do I feel like I get more CB action with a whippy shaft?

I

Impact Blue

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
...just throwing it out there.

Everyone praises a stiff hitting, tight-grained shaft as a selling point, and yet I have this OB-1, taken down, and an old (my first) Lucasi shaft with a 12mm tip and a disgustingly sandpapered taper that draws full table for days.

Yeah it's the archer, not the arrow, but is there any truth to this? Or is this all just an isolated incident.
 
Well, should be able to with any shaft. I have a 13mm stiff taper that draws a more than table length for years. One ended up in the next county.:D

Rod
 
That is a good question. I've heard that whippy shafts do produce mad action on the CB, however the same has been said in regards to stiff tapered shafts with smaller tip diameters, like the Z and OB2 (11.75mm).
 
I think a whippy shaft bends during an off-center hit, thus hitting the cue ball (slightly) even more off-center, resulting in slightly more spin on the cue ball.
 
I think given the same stroke you probably do get more spin with a piece of spaghetti. If all you want is monster draw and follow go for it. Move from center and things change. More spin maybe, but where's she going?

I basically only play 3C. My shaft has a very very slight whip compared to a cone taper for the reason you suggest. Most noticeable off the 3rd rail using max side spin. I might be able to draw a little better or further or however that's judged not sure about follow compared to a cone.

That all being said there's lots of other reasons including, it's all in our heads.
 
I don't think your stroke has to be as pure and clean with a whippy shaft to get that action. I think that's a reason some cues are made that way, so beginners feel they're getting easier cb action. I think the trade-off is it's easier to get control with a stiffer shaft. All of this generally-speaking.
 
I would think you would get more action on the cue ball with a whippy shaft. Now I am totally basing this on experience I've had hitting a golf ball. You get a lot more spin on a golf ball with less stiiff shaft if you swing it hard. I may be way off on this comparison, but it sound like it makes sense to me.:D
 
JAW725 said:
That is a good question. I've heard that whippy shafts do produce mad action on the CB, however the same has been said in regards to stiff tapered shafts with smaller tip diameters, like the Z and OB2 (11.75mm).
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A snooker cue stick shaft narrows down to 9.5mm, whereas regular pool sticks are around 12-13mm. From personal experience (being essentially a snooker player) and as used by couple of other pool players, an 11mm or even a 10.5mm narrowed shafts with respective tips far outweighs performance (overall action & control on CB and 'handling') over "obese" shafts on pool games. Just my 2cents.
 
Impact Blue said:
...just throwing it out there.

Everyone praises a stiff hitting, tight-grained shaft as a selling point, and yet I have this OB-1, taken down, and an old (my first) Lucasi shaft with a 12mm tip and a disgustingly sandpapered taper that draws full table for days.

Yeah it's the archer, not the arrow, but is there any truth to this? Or is this all just an isolated incident.
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See the info and resources here:


The short answer is: yes. The long answer is: the difference is small.

Regards,
Dave
 
Correct!

pulzcul said:
The more the shaft bends the longer the tip stays on the cue ball.
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Bob Meucci figured this out over 30 years ago. Beginning players would try a draw shot with a Meucci, and they could draw the ball further than they could with other cues. He sold Meucci cues like crazy.

The only problem was, once they figured out how to use side spin, the cues deflected too much.
 
When I started playing the whippy shafts were my favorite like my OB-1 with 12.25mm taper/tip, it seems to give extra action. Now, I feel that a stiffer shaft gives me more predictable results and greater confidence. My OB-2 with 11.75mm is stiff, and doesn’t seem to spin the ball as well. Yet I like it a lot.

When comes to draw perhaps the LD shafts with lower end mass don't draw as well? Is it possible?

BTW. My tip preference has also switched from softer to harder.
 
Pretty much everything posted in this thread, except for Dr. Dave's tested results, should be ignored. Tests show that the difference in spin or squirt between stiffer and whippier shafts is negligible - not enough to make any difference in your game.

pj
chgo
 
I don't think the more drawing action is so much to do with the whip shaft as it has to do with the smaller diameter tip. Johnnyt
 
dr_dave said:
...
The short answer is: yes. The long answer is: the difference is small.
...
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I agree with this, but there could be something else involved for some players. If the shaft is flexible, the cue could bend on the stroke. A stiff cue would hit where expected, but a flexible cue might hit farther off center (or not as far). This could give the impression of significantly more action with one cue.

But there might be something else again involved. I recently changed out my (very short) ferrule and tip, for a new (very short) ferrule and different kind of tip, and I started getting much better apparent spin. I suspect the mechanical integrity of the old equipment had degraded. The point of this story is that it is really hard to compare cues or even shafts or even the same shaft if various variables are allowed to change.
 
Bob Jewett said:
I agree with this, but there could be something else involved for some players. If the shaft is flexible, the cue could bend on the stroke. A stiff cue would hit where expected, but a flexible cue might hit farther off center (or not as far). This could give the impression of significantly more action with one cue.

But there might be something else again involved. I recently changed out my (very short) ferrule and tip, for a new (very short) ferrule and different kind of tip, and I started getting much better apparent spin. I suspect the mechanical integrity of the old equipment had degraded. The point of this story is that it is really hard to compare cues or even shafts or even the same shaft if various variables are allowed to change.
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Awesome post. I'm glad you're back Bob. It seems like you've been away from AZB for a while. I guess you have more control than most of us.

Regards,
Dave
 
Stroke timing plays a big part in drawing a ball, you can stroke through the cue ball quicker with a stiff stick because of the lack of flex. With a whippy shaft you have to slow your stroke down marginally inorder to take full advantage of the shafts flex, allowing extra time for it to spring back.

Bern
 
dr_dave said:
Awesome post. I'm glad you're back Bob. It seems like you've been away from AZB for a while. I guess you have more control than most of us.
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I’m glad Bob Jewett said it for if a mere mortal says it then we are either imagining things or should work on the stroke…….:)
 
Well ive done lot of experimenting over the years with different tapers, different diameters and different lengths. I currently have 2 shafts same diameter at tip and same tip but 1 has long pro taper 16" and the other i had made for banking which has a european taper and 2" shorter.
The Euro taper shaft is very very stiff. If you take and hold the cue in your hand and hit couple inches below the joint the Euro shaft has virtually no flex. If you put the long pro taper shaft on its like a tuning fork. Placing an object ball about 1.5 diamonds away from corner and cueball about 2 diamonds down from opposite corner. I can consistantly draw the cueball back to hit bottom rail or pocket with the whippy shaft, but its very hard to get the cueball that far with the stiff shaft. Balance point and weight on the cue is something else to consider especially when drawing a ball. It does make the difference. I can draw better if i use a heavier stick with rear weighted around 17" vs say 19 or 19.5" than with lighter stick with forward balance{19"}. This will not work for everyone though because it depends on your stroke and where you hold your cue. The reason it works for me is i put a lot of power in my stroke to draw. If i use a light stick it puts to much speed on the cue and kills the action. Hope this help with some of the varibles involved:thumbup:
 
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