Why does draw seem so mystical?

paksat

paksat

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Being a novice, I am amazed how inconsistent my draw shot is. Now granted I play on some pretty bad barbox 8 footers, but that doesn't explain why sometimes I draw the ball halfway across the table and sometimes I can't even get a stop shot to work.

There's something about the stroke that happens just before contact with the cueball. I've noticed that when i'm in the zone, there seems to be a certain wrist action that happens just as contact with the cueball happens.

I'm wondering if some experience around here can explain to me what the problem is.

Obviously the playing conditions are not optimal being that I have to play on sh*t tables with heavy ass balls on slow cloth. I still see no reason why some days it happens at will, others, it doesn't happen PERIOD.

Just some info on myself - I've been playing a year and 8 months. I just became a 5 in 9 ball APA last week and I shoot with a 17oz players.
 
paksat said:
Being a novice, I am amazed how inconsistent my draw shot is. Now granted I play on some pretty bad barbox 8 footers, but that doesn't explain why sometimes I draw the ball halfway across the table and sometimes I can't even get a stop shot to work.

There's something about the stroke that happens just before contact with the cueball. I've noticed that when i'm in the zone, there seems to be a certain wrist action that happens just as contact with the cueball happens.

I'm wondering if some experience around here can explain to me what the problem is.

Obviously the playing conditions are not optimal being that I have to play on sh*t tables with heavy ass balls on slow cloth. I still see no reason why some days it happens at will, others, it doesn't happen PERIOD.

Just some info on myself - I've been playing a year and 8 months. I just became a 5 in 9 ball APA last week and I shoot with a 17oz players.
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I don't know how much you practice, but pool is a very tough game to learn. Maybe the toughest. I would say the normal learning curve, with regular practice, to develop good cue ball control is two to three years. I'm not sure what the top rating is in the APA, but if you get there within three years, you've done well, very well!
 
The wrist action is your brain telling your body to force the ball back. All you need to do is stroke evenly (not jacked up) and follow through firmly. Don't drop that elbow...if you have to, choke back on your cue a little bit and extend your bridge length. This will aid you in following through further.
 
jay helfert said:
I don't know how much you practice, but pool is a very tough game to learn. Maybe the toughest. I would say the normal learning curve, with regular practice, to develop good cue ball control is two to three years. I'm not sure what the top rating is in the APA, but if you get there within three years, you've done well, very well!
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The rank system is 1 thru 9 with 1 being the worst and 9 being the best. You start out as a 4 in 9 and a 3 in 8.

Most 8's and 9's i've seen are pretty damn semi-pro. A few i've met play in the US open among other top tourneys. It's not much different from watching them play and going on youtube and watching corey or shane or such. There's also huge gaps between numbers. For instance the 6 on my team.. he's taken 7 years to go from a 4 to a 6.

As for myself, i've gone from not being able to not even hold the stick straight to quite a few break and runs in both 8 and 9 ball. I'd say that if the table is wide open in 9 ball with no problems, I can run it half the time if i'm on.
 
LPHooper03 said:
The wrist action is your brain telling your body to force the ball back. All you need to do is stroke evenly (not jacked up) and follow through firmly. Don't drop that elbow...if you have to, choke back on your cue a little bit and extend your bridge length. This will aid you in following through further.
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What's choking back?
 
Distance is key. If the object ball is far from the cue ball, the friction from the cloth will diminish most of the cue balls backspin....which might be why the cue ball doesnt draw well. The ideal distance between the balls for maximum draw is about 16 inches (I just made that up...but its somewhere in that range). You'll get the best results when drawing from this distance.

Also be sure to use a level cue and follow through. The distance that you pull the cue back on the backswing, should be equal to the distance that you follow through after contacting the cue ball.

Another things is to strike the ball firmly, but not too hard (most players hit the balls too hard).
 
paksat said:
The rank system is 1 thru 9 with 1 being the worst and 9 being the best. You start out as a 4 in 9 and a 3 in 8.

Most 8's and 9's i've seen are pretty damn semi-pro. A few i've met play in the US open among other top tourneys. It's not much different from watching them play and going on youtube and watching corey or shane or such. There's also huge gaps between numbers. For instance the 6 on my team.. he's taken 7 years to go from a 4 to a 6.

As for myself, i've gone from not being able to not even hold the stick straight to quite a few break and runs in both 8 and 9 ball. I'd say that if the table is wide open in 9 ball with no problems, I can run it half the time if i'm on.
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I would advise you to ask this question of some of the "semi pros" you refer to. Then practice what you learn from them. Another six months to a year and you should have your draw stroke under control. The more balls you hit, the quicker you learn. Good luck! ;)

P.S. How far the cue ball comes back has a lot to do with two things. How low you hit on the cue ball and how firmly you hit it. These are the two things you must learn how to control.
 
Nothing achieves a well executed draw shot better than a very straight stroke. When you are stroking straight, you get a very solid hit on the cue ball. The draw shot becomes effortless. You will notice that a smooth transition, and simply letting your forearm relax and collapse into your upper arm or chest will make the cue ball do pretty much whatever you want. I really don't think flicking your wrist is necessary at all.
 
jay helfert said:
I would advise you to ask this question of some of the "semi pros" you refer to. Then practice what you learn from them. Another six months to a year and you should have your draw stroke under control. The more balls you hit, the quicker you learn. Good luck! ;)

P.S. How far the cue ball comes back has a lot to do with two things. How low you hit on the cue ball and how firmly you hit it. These are the two things you must learn how to control.
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Alot of them have their heads above the clouds it seems. I asked one of them how he performed a certain shot and he goes "I just hit it man that's it I just it" in the cockiest "i'm just a natural badass" tone you could conceive.
 
paksat said:
Alot of them have their heads above the clouds it seems. I asked one of them how he performed a certain shot and he goes "I just hit it man that's it I just it" in the cockiest "i'm just a natural badass" tone you could conceive.
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Think of how good you'll feel in a year or two when you starting kicking their "bad asses". This should give you a little more incentive to work on your game.
 
paksat said:
The rank system is 1 thru 9 with 1 being the worst and 9 being the best. You start out as a 4 in 9 and a 3 in 8.

Most 8's and 9's i've seen are pretty damn semi-pro. A few i've met play in the US open among other top tourneys. It's not much different from watching them play and going on youtube and watching corey or shane or such. There's also huge gaps between numbers. For instance the 6 on my team.. he's taken 7 years to go from a 4 to a 6.

As for myself, i've gone from not being able to not even hold the stick straight to quite a few break and runs in both 8 and 9 ball. I'd say that if the table is wide open in 9 ball with no problems, I can run it half the time if i'm on.
Click to expand...

The draw stroke is the first "english" that any novice player wants to learn, and once you learn to draw the ball back even an inch, it becomes an obsession until you learn to draw it the length of the table and more. Just keep a straight stroke and most importantly, you must follow through!! Unfortunately once these novices are learning the draw stroke, they forget about all the other one's including just center. They want to draw every shot!!

I'm a 9 in the APA 9-ball league, and I'm here to tell you that there is a HUGE gap between any 9 in our league and Corey or Shane. It's unfortunate but it's just reality. Even though I may be at the top of our local league as far as handicap, I still believe that there is at least a 2 ball difference between the top player's in an APA league and the top pro's. That may not be the case around the whole country, but it would be for my area.

What I'm saying is that I may need the 5-out and the breaks. Any takers? I'm predominately a bar box player, and that makes a huge difference.
 
FYI, I have summaries of lots of good draw shot info, advice, and resources here:


You don't need to be an artist to draw,
Dave

paksat said:
Being a novice, I am amazed how inconsistent my draw shot is. Now granted I play on some pretty bad barbox 8 footers, but that doesn't explain why sometimes I draw the ball halfway across the table and sometimes I can't even get a stop shot to work.

There's something about the stroke that happens just before contact with the cueball. I've noticed that when i'm in the zone, there seems to be a certain wrist action that happens just as contact with the cueball happens.

I'm wondering if some experience around here can explain to me what the problem is.

Obviously the playing conditions are not optimal being that I have to play on sh*t tables with heavy ass balls on slow cloth. I still see no reason why some days it happens at will, others, it doesn't happen PERIOD.

Just some info on myself - I've been playing a year and 8 months. I just became a 5 in 9 ball APA last week and I shoot with a 17oz players.
Click to expand...
 
Brozif said:
The draw stroke is the first "english" that any novice player wants to learn, and once you learn to draw the ball back even an inch, it becomes an obsession until you learn to draw it the length of the table and more. Just keep a straight stroke and most importantly, you must follow through!! Unfortunately once these novices are learning the draw stroke, they forget about all the other one's including just center. They want to draw every shot!!

I'm a 9 in the APA 9-ball league, and I'm here to tell you that there is a HUGE gap between any 9 in our league and Corey or Shane. It's unfortunate but it's just reality. Even though I may be at the top of our local league as far as handicap, I still believe that there is at least a 2 ball difference between the top player's in an APA league and the top pro's. That may not be the case around the whole country, but it would be for my area.

What I'm saying is that I may need the 5-out and the breaks. Any takers? I'm predominately a bar box player, and that makes a huge difference.
Click to expand...

Obviously a 9 in one part of the country might not be one in another. For one example there's a 7 that plays in our travel league. They recently just formed that I know. He's no 7 though. He's got a good shot but he gets out of position and f*cks up way to much in general to be a 7. He got annihilated by our 6 last time we played and I also beat him the session before this one.

I live in middle florida and quite a few of these 8's and 9's around here are pretty legit. One of them I know a year back or so had the number 2 player in world ( forget who he said, but a well known ) down 7-0 ( 9 ball ) in a tourney in jacksonville. But then he just fell apart because he couldn't believe what he was doing to him:confused:.

Of course, that's one of the cocky players so who knows if that storys legit.
 
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This is probably the most common question asked here, and I'm always surprised at how long it takes to get to the heart of the matter. The most frequent advice you'll hear is to follow through, and that's good advice that aims at the heart of the matter, but doesn't really explain it. Here it is:

The heart of your problem is that you're unable to consistently hit the cue ball where you want to because your stroke isn't yet accurate enough. To see the truth of this, place the cue ball with its little circle (blue or red) oriented to where you want to hit it with your tip, then look at the chalk mark you make afterwards. If you're not hitting right on that mark every time, then your draw results will naturally be erratic.

How to fix this? Practice, practice, practice.

pj <- did I mention practice?
chgo
 
A couple pieces of advice, since i'm not too far past where you are now. First I would try pickingup a Jim Rempe training cue ball. It helps you learn where to hit on the cue ball, and holds the chalk on teh cue ball well enough that after your shot, you can see if where you aimed for, is close to where you hit it.

Second, on youtube, I got alot of help from some various training videos. Someone going by "ForceFollow" helped me with alot of usefull tips.

Third, have a friend who perhaps is ranked higher than you watch as you practice. They will be able to let you know if your doing something wrong with your stroke that you might not realize.

Fourth, practice practice practice.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
This is probably the most common question asked here, and I'm always surprised at how long it takes to get to the heart of the matter. The most frequent advice you'll hear is to follow through, and that's good advice that aims at the heart of the matter, but doesn't really explain it. Here it is:

The heart of your problem is that you're unable to consistently hit the cue ball where you want to because your stroke isn't yet accurate enough. To see the truth of this, place the cue ball with its little circle (blue or red) oriented to where you want to hit it with your tip, then look at the chalk mark you make afterwards. If you're not hitting right on that mark every time, then your draw results will naturally be erratic.

How to fix this? Practice, practice, practice.

pj <- did I mention practice?
chgo
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I agree. You can follow through all you want. If you ain't hitting where you think you are, you are not going to be consistenlty drawing/following/ spinning the cueball when you need to.
 
Another thing that can't be stressed enough: If you DO hit low on the ball, with a decent amount of force, it WILL draw. I know that sounds very obvious and is exactly what everyone else says, but the point I want to make is: It would break the laws of physics if you actually hit low and somehow it didn't draw. Even if you have an ugly stroke, and bad equipment, and a cruddy tip on a cruddy cue... even if you break everyone's advice and jack up the ass end of the cue and fail to follow through (don't do that)...
as long as you hit low it WILL draw. The ONLY exception is if you hit low but not forcefully enough.

Don't be that guy who says "I swear I hit that ball low but it didn't draw!"
That guy is full of it. He might think he hit low but I promise you that he didn't.

If you don't get draw, and you know you put a fair amount of speed/force on the ball, then there are only 3 things that could have happened:

1. You didn't hit low
2. You didn't hit low
3. You didn't hit low

:P hope that helps.

PS: Pat's advice is excellent by the way. Try setting up a straight in side pocket shot, with maybe 1.5 or 2 feet between the balls, and use a stripe as your cue ball. Set it up so that the stripe's number is facing you (once you're nice and low on your shot) and try to hit the edge of the circle around the number (or near the edge of the stripe). Chalk the crap out of your cue first. That's a good habit in general for draw shots but also helps to make the chalk mark visible after you hit. For some reason the natural human tendency is to jump up at the end of the stroke and almost always that chalk mark will appear higher than you thought it would. I think we're all subconsciously scared of hitting too low and miscuing or jumping the ball, or scratching the cloth. Fight through that fear and hit where you intend to.
 
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The funny thing is that when this person was telling me how he couldn't get any draw on the table I replied with "well, generally a person thinks they're hitting it with bottom when in reality they're actually hitting it above the intended spot"

I reckon i'm ahead of my game :thumbup:
 
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