Several years ago I tried to contact the UPA to discuss several issues. The person I talked to (I won't drop any names) told me that the UPA is the leader of professional pool. My response was, "According to who?" While I admire their motivation to be the leader, I also recognize that this is a self proclaimed title that they have pinned upon themselves. For far too long the bad has outweighed the good with the UPA, and for that reason, they don't get my $100 either.
I completely understand Danny's decision to break ties with the UPA while initially disagreeing with how he did it. It was Danny Harriman's situation to deal with, not mine. If the UPA were willing step up to the plate and make this right, this incident would have never occurred. Myself, I'm not going to hand somebody $100 if they owe me 25 times that amount. If the UPA is willing to go through another public relations nightmare over a total of $2500 - then they deserve whatever happens. If they were half the leaders they say they are, the $2500 wouldn't be so hard to come up with. I would have spotted them the money if it meant avoiding this situation. Take care of your players first, sue the other guy second. Don't leave the player hanging out to dry, he's just trying to hit some balls and cover expenses. My hat is off to Danny for standing up to them regardles of what the fallout may bring his way. I wish more players would follow suit.
I completely understand Danny's decision to break ties with the UPA while initially disagreeing with how he did it. It was Danny Harriman's situation to deal with, not mine. If the UPA were willing step up to the plate and make this right, this incident would have never occurred. Myself, I'm not going to hand somebody $100 if they owe me 25 times that amount. If the UPA is willing to go through another public relations nightmare over a total of $2500 - then they deserve whatever happens. If they were half the leaders they say they are, the $2500 wouldn't be so hard to come up with. I would have spotted them the money if it meant avoiding this situation. Take care of your players first, sue the other guy second. Don't leave the player hanging out to dry, he's just trying to hit some balls and cover expenses. My hat is off to Danny for standing up to them regardles of what the fallout may bring his way. I wish more players would follow suit.
Do you think that you'd have heard anything about this if he hadn't conceded during the match? I don't think so either. I think IMHO that Danny did exactly the right thing. This will hurt his name for a few days. It will hurt the UPA for quite a while because of the public relations nightmare. I'm honestly surprised that it didn't happen sooner or with more players. If the UPA was really the "leader" that they claim to be, they'd have had a system built in to make sure that the players were paid. The whole situation is a crock of crap. Shame on the UPA for not protecting the players who paid thier membership fees. Shame on the UPA for bothering a player during a tourney. If he "owed" the money, why was his entry accepted?
All in all, this was poorly handled by the officials of UPA. I hope that they pull thier collective heads out of thier collective butts!
Btw...I saw Danny Harriman shoot way back in the early 90's in Springfield, MO. Quite a few times actually...I was living there going to college. Thank you Danny for some great inspiration!
All in all, this was poorly handled by the officials of UPA. I hope that they pull thier collective heads out of thier collective butts!
Btw...I saw Danny Harriman shoot way back in the early 90's in Springfield, MO. Quite a few times actually...I was living there going to college. Thank you Danny for some great inspiration!
yobagua said:
I've met you Danny and watched you play, both pool and checkers (stick with pool) during the Florida tour. You say that Frank was hounding you for the money. Since I know that you are not a big man perhaps in the back of your mind you may have been intimidated by him. Perhaps fearing bodily harm and these thoughts were going through your mind when you were playing Corey. If Frank approached you at any tournament for the money then he was completely out of line. Even if his intentions were completely above board. The collection of money should be done by the treasurer via the mail. A general announcement at a tournament that fees can be collected would be proper but to single someone out, and go look for him, to ask for the money, would be completely out of line.
Just my opinion.
Hope to see you, and Earl too, at future Florida tour stops.
I've seen Danny play at several events, and although I've only spoken with him briefly, He has always acted in a professional manner. I have never seen him disrespectful to another player and have heard positive things about his character. Stick to your guns until you're paid what is owed to you Danny, it's the UPA's loss. Let them do what they're supposed to. Sam
bobroberts said:
no different than walking out on your job during the work day, because you've finally become fed up with the work environment.
thanks
VAP
vapoolplayer said:
Not if your job is an entertainer, because then the PAYING spectators must be considered. More than the boss get hurt.
As ctatyk said though, by walking out during a match, Danny highlighted the predicament, so there's definitely additonal value to that.
Like a lot of victims, Danny seemed to have been stuck in the middle and did his best.
I hope all those who neglected to fulfill their obligations do so soon and learn from this incident. That'll be good.
Either way, we're watching...
Jeff Livingston
D
Danny Harriman
Guest
Please understand NC
I appreciate your correspondence but one of the tourneys you mentioned was the US Open which is run by the Behrmans and those are the folks that owe me $2000.00. I once had some asperations of winning that event but not now, to answer your question about gambling well yes unfortunately I do but not that often. I recently asked the current US Open Champion Gabe Owen to a match of 10-ball to which he declined.
sincerely, Danny
I appreciate your correspondence but one of the tourneys you mentioned was the US Open which is run by the Behrmans and those are the folks that owe me $2000.00. I once had some asperations of winning that event but not now, to answer your question about gambling well yes unfortunately I do but not that often. I recently asked the current US Open Champion Gabe Owen to a match of 10-ball to which he declined.
sincerely, Danny
D
Danny Harriman
Guest
Incentive to play well!
The upa did not pay the top 8 when I was competing, although I think it is a good idea because it gives the lesser ranked players some incentive to reach the top. And yes there should be some reward, in the early 90's that was the deal which took some of the financial pressur off of my sponsor.
The upa did not pay the top 8 when I was competing, although I think it is a good idea because it gives the lesser ranked players some incentive to reach the top. And yes there should be some reward, in the early 90's that was the deal which took some of the financial pressur off of my sponsor.
D
Danny Harriman
Guest
Lets not be too hasty in judgment
I appreciate your honesty and if you lost $ well then I apalogize, the truth of the matter is that this alvarez character is a poor rep. and was threatening me. When he was talking to me about the $ he was in my face and the situation was more tense than you may know.
Remember don't judge untill you know all of the facts because I could not take any more pressure from alvarez and if I see him in the future I hope for his sake that he does not get in my face. yours truly, Danny Harriman (The Springfield Kid)
I appreciate your honesty and if you lost $ well then I apalogize, the truth of the matter is that this alvarez character is a poor rep. and was threatening me. When he was talking to me about the $ he was in my face and the situation was more tense than you may know.
Remember don't judge untill you know all of the facts because I could not take any more pressure from alvarez and if I see him in the future I hope for his sake that he does not get in my face. yours truly, Danny Harriman (The Springfield Kid)
Danny Harriman said:
Danny, if you can venture on over here to the East Coast in the August-September time frame, there's a few tournaments that may pique your interest, just for future reference.
August 18th-21st, there will be a $25,000-added Joss Northeast 9-Ball Tour at the Turning Stone in Casino in Verona, New York. Call the Tournament Director Mike Zuglan, if interested, at (518) 356-7163. With a limited field of 128 players, the entry fee is $135 for Joss Tour members who have played in at least three events during the current season. All others have to pay $335. Earlier this year, the Joss tournament held at theTurning Stone Casino filled up well ahead of time and had a waiting list.
Gene Hooker and the other owners at Fast Eddie's in Goldsboro, North Carolina, are hosting a $20,000-added event consisting of 9-ball AND one-pocket, September 6-11, 2005. Danny, this is a REALLY COOL tournament, and there's a little something for everybody. This is one of my favorite stops of the year on the tournament trail. Call (919) 759-0071 for further information, if desired.
On September 17-18, 2005, the Planet-Pool 9-Ball Tour is holding the traditional $4,000-added Pre-U.S. Open Warm-Up Event at Great Slates in Cambridge, MD. Check out the Planet Pool 9-Ball Tour website: http://www.planet-pool.com for more information.
I have heard it from a very good source that Master's Billiards will be having a $15,000-added event in NYC during the month of August or September. More news to follow on that in the days ahead!
The great thing about the above-referenced tournaments is that you do not have to be a member of any organization to play. Just bring your best game to the table and take a shot at the winner's circle!
JAM
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JAM said:I have heard it from a very good source that Master's Billiards will be having a $15,000-added event in NYC during the month of August or September. More news to follow on that in the days ahead!
The great thing about the above-referenced tournaments is that you do not have to be a member of any organization to play. Just bring your best game to the table and take a shot at the winner's circle!
JAM
Didn't Danny say he was stiffed at Master's?. Cmon Danny give'm another chance!
Nostroke said:
Nope, Nostrike. Master Billiards in New York City on Queens Boulevard West definitely paid every single player who got in the money rounds.
The foreign players, though, were a little miffed when Uncle Sam took his cut and made them pay up their taxes in advance if they didn't have a Social Security number to provide!
Here's a picture of the smoking lounge at Master Billiards!
JAM
Attachments
Danny, I think you've been a stand-up guy in this thread, and I admire you for it. You have been dealt with unfairly, and it's deplorable. Still, a question you might consider is whether there was a way to protest UPA injustices against you without compromising the interests of the paying fans.
This is not about the interests of calcutta participants or side bettors. All of us understand that when you bet on a horse, sometimes the horse won't run. This, instead, is about those, like me, who spend good money only to have to watch top pros unscrew in the middle of a match.
Last year, I attended two UPA events. At the Big Apple Nine Ball Challenge, John Schmidt unscrewed in mid-match. At the World Summit, Jeremy Jones unscrewed in mid-match. It seems that at every men's pro event, somebody unscrews in mid-match. Yet, I have never seen a woman unscrew in mid-match in a WPBA event, and I've been to about forty WPBA events.
Why don't you and your fellow pros care a little more about your paying customers? I have complete sympathy for you here, Danny, and wish you well in your pursuit of all moneys due you, but I just don't understand why men seem to unscrew so often in mid-match.
Why is it that the women of the WPBA seem to have so much more respect for their paying customers than those associated with men's pro pool?
This is not about the interests of calcutta participants or side bettors. All of us understand that when you bet on a horse, sometimes the horse won't run. This, instead, is about those, like me, who spend good money only to have to watch top pros unscrew in the middle of a match.
Last year, I attended two UPA events. At the Big Apple Nine Ball Challenge, John Schmidt unscrewed in mid-match. At the World Summit, Jeremy Jones unscrewed in mid-match. It seems that at every men's pro event, somebody unscrews in mid-match. Yet, I have never seen a woman unscrew in mid-match in a WPBA event, and I've been to about forty WPBA events.
Why don't you and your fellow pros care a little more about your paying customers? I have complete sympathy for you here, Danny, and wish you well in your pursuit of all moneys due you, but I just don't understand why men seem to unscrew so often in mid-match.
Why is it that the women of the WPBA seem to have so much more respect for their paying customers than those associated with men's pro pool?
JAM said:Nope, Nostrike. Master Billiards in New York City on Queens Boulevard West definitely paid every single player who got in the money rounds.
The foreign players, though, were a little miffed when Uncle Sam took his cut and made them pay up their taxes in advance if they didn't have a Social Security number to provide!
Here's a picture of the smoking lounge at Master Billiards!
JAM
From Danny's first Post
This also happened in a tournament in Queens, New York and Bin Min failed to pay also. So now when the Leading Rep. for the upa (frank alvarez) asked me for my yearly due as a touring pro I told him that I was still owed $ from two different tournaments that were sanctioned by the upa.
I know iM getting old and screwing things up all the time but Im pretty sure he is speaking of Master's here. There has only been one room in Queens that had UPA event as far as i know.
Nostroke said:
You ain't old Nostroke, and I'm probably wrong. I did see Alexander Dyer, who was the tournament director at that time, pay the players, but it was the Big Apple tournament of 2 years ago and not last year. And I did not attend the UPA-sanctioned Big Apple tournament held at Master Billiards in the year 2004.
The Springfield Kid has received some bad knocks over the past several years relating to getting paid his tournament winnings. Unfortunately, I do know of another "Master's" not in NYC in which Danny was not paid, I am sad to say. It is no wonder he took some time off from the tournament trail.
As an aside, I am surprised to hear about the UPA Representative Frank Alvarez exhibiting a negative behavior. Although I will be the first to admit that I am definitely not a fan of the UPA, I do admire Frank Alvarez as a player and a person. I believe his intentions are sincere relating to the men's professional organization that is currently the sanctioning body in the United States.
My interactions with him have always been very pleasurable, and although I have not agreed on some topics with Frankie-Boy, as I fondly call him, he has always been very friendly and treated me with the utmost respect. He's just wearing the wrong patch on his sleeve (IMHO).
JAM
sjm said:
The women probably actually get there money if they win. I understand what your saying about unscrewing mid match, but this is probably just the circumstances and frustration building up to a "why even play if im not going to get paid" It is probably alot harder to play your game when your frustrated every second being there and giving your support as a pro pool player to a orginazation that doesnt give a crap about you. It makes me question even giving the UPA any money as a fan. The event they held in january in LA I bought 6 VIP passes at about 65 bucks a pop, unless hear of the pro pool players in the upa getting treated better i will just look for other events to give my money to.
Mack
sjm said:
I don't think "paying customers" is the right terminology relating to pool events where the professional players in today's pool world usually pay their own way and are not compensated with an appearance fee. The customers provide income, and hopefully a profit, to the tournament promoter and/or organizer for making these events happen. Most aspiring pool players, the majority I should say, are NOT sponsored, do not receive a salary whether they play good or bad in competitive events, and strive to keep up with the tournament trail, often suffering great financial difficulties.
As far as the WPBA receiving more respect in the industry, the lady pros are dealing with an organization which has a proven track record and seems to be above board with its rules, not changing them to favor select players. Everybody seems to be created equal in the WPBA, and the ranking system is available for full disclosure on the WPBA website, to include the upcoming tour events WELL IN ADVANCE!
JAM