Why is censorship so prevalent on AZ?!

[pharaoh68]

Your logic is beyond flawed

MR. Wilson:
I actually have a hard time understanding why "adults"....a loose term at best, would feel they can act as bad as they want on this board ( private property ) and then **actually** be surprised in the smallest bit when the trash is taken out.

Who are you to decide what is trash and what isn't? I asked someone what the he was doing selling a cell-phone in a pool-related forum. You think of that as trash?

Mr. Wilson:
I'll remind everyone, the guy that warned someone for an "f" is no longer here. He's also the guy that banned a bunch of people because they annoyed him.

Call me crazy, but isn't thins similar to what you're doing? Deleting threads and posts because you deem them tasteless? Where do you draw the line and, more importantly, in a public forum open to any and all, who says that the line you draw should be the one we all abide by? With multiple moderators, all with different opinions, how far do you guys plan on taking it?

Mr. Wilson:
Now, as noted, for people that don't like it here, NOBODY is going to make you read and post against your will.

Exactly. So if you don't like seeing me use 'f***' or 'h***' as a substitute for the actual word, DON'T READ IT!!!!

Mr. Wilson:
First and formost, keep ALL the discussion clean and civil.

Keep in mind that an open forum is a place where we can all share thoughts and opinions. Sometimes, this happens in the form of what we call debate. When this happens, opinions differ and, in expressing opinions, opposing parties sometimes do get slightly heated. I understand monitoring for this reason as I have actually read racist comments on here that have no place whatsoever in any society (in my mind) but if you expect us all to be civil all the time, go somewhere else man because that ain't real and that ain't life!

Mr Wilson:
I will be making the warnings well known.
3 strikes, you're out.
Pretty simple, right?

You speak like a schoolyard principal. Well, I've got news for you. I had a principal and that was eleven years ago. That man has long since lost the ability to tell me what I can and can't say. And you know what else, even if he did still have that authority, that man is not you! I'm not some foul-mouthed mongrel who is going to run all over this site throwing curses in here and there just because I feel like stirring things up a bit. I can act as civil as the Queen of England if need be. My point is simply this: You and I obviously have very different opinions of what is acceptable. That being said, what makes your opinion right and mine wrong? If you can prove your point, I'll accept it. But so far you haven't proven anything. You've simply pointed out other instances that have no bearing on your point. Come to think of it, I'm not really sure what your point is.

 

[JAM]

...Keep in mind that an open forum is a place where we can all share thoughts and opinions. Sometimes, this happens in the form of what we call debate. When this happens, opinions differ and, in expressing opinions, opposing parties sometimes do get slightly heated. I understand monitoring for this reason as I have actually read racist comments on here that have no place whatsoever in any society (in my mind) but if you expect us all to be civil all the time, go somewhere else man because that ain't real and that ain't life![/I]

Pharaoh68, with all due respect to Mr. Wilson, it could be that some parties who get slightly heated and/or do not share thoughts and opinions with others have their own boundaries as to what they deem as "civil" discourse.

The end result sometimes is not only a flame, which to others could be deemed as "offensive," but a continual non-stop war of words.

I remember a day on this forum when no moderation was needed whatsoever.

Mr. Wilson was/is a "regular" member of this forum. He's one of the good guys. He now wears an AzBilliards moderator's hat and becomes the bad guy? I don't think so. Without any moderation whatsoever, the forum would suffer. JMHO, FWIW!

JAM

 

[azhousepro]

MR. Wilson:
I actually have a hard time understanding why "adults"....a loose term at best, would feel they can act as bad as they want on this board ( private property ) and then **actually** be surprised in the smallest bit when the trash is taken out.

Who are you to decide what is trash and what isn't? I asked someone what the he was doing selling a cell-phone in a pool-related forum. You think of that as trash?

Mr. Wilson:
I'll remind everyone, the guy that warned someone for an "f" is no longer here. He's also the guy that banned a bunch of people because they annoyed him.

Call me crazy, but isn't thins similar to what you're doing? Deleting threads and posts because you deem them tasteless? Where do you draw the line and, more importantly, in a public forum open to any and all, who says that the line you draw should be the one we all abide by? With multiple moderators, all with different opinions, how far do you guys plan on taking it?

Mr. Wilson:
Now, as noted, for people that don't like it here, NOBODY is going to make you read and post against your will.

Exactly. So if you don't like seeing me use 'f***' or 'h***' as a substitute for the actual word, DON'T READ IT!!!!

Big difference is that Wilson is a chosen moderator of the board and his responsibility is to try to help keep the forums under control. We have already discussed the idea that this is NOT an open forum for anyone to post anything they want and be surprised when it gets deleted.

There have been attempts to run completely open forums for billiards. They failed.

Mike

 

[pharaoh68]

Pharaoh68, with all due respect to Mr. Wilson, it could be that some parties who get slightly heated and/or do not share thoughts and opinions with others have their own boundaries as to what they deem as "civil" discourse.

The end result sometimes is not only a flame, which to others could be deemed as "offensive," but a continual non-stop war of words.

I remember a day on this forum when no moderation was needed whatsoever.

Mr. Wilson was/is a "regular" member of this forum. He's one of the good guys. He now wears an AzBilliards moderator's hat and becomes the bad guy? I don't think so. Without any moderation whatsoever, the forum would suffer. JMHO, FWIW!

JAM

JAM-
I understand your point. But you are only looking at one side of the coin. Yes, sometimes people in heated discussions have their own boundaries and their own limitations. Sometimes these individuals do go too far. I understand that monitoring can be justified in this kind of situation.
But sometimes, people say very little like "Why post this here" and you're telling me that needs to be consored?! That makes little or no sense! My point is that while monitoring what we say can be beneficial in certain areas, it can lead to an abuse which is why some moderators, who shall remain unnamed, are no longer a part of this forum.

My point is that Wilson (a long standing member, no one is denying that) is doing something similar on a smaller scale. No he is no deleting the threads of people he dislikes. But he is inflicting his ethics and morals on us and forcing us to adhere to them.

I understand that Mike cannot keep his eye on everything by himself. I know that there needs to be several watchful eyes. But if there really is a need for these watchful eyes, there needs to be a set of rules and regulations that are to be followed, not just what a moderator deems to be appropriate. I'm not saying Wilson is a bad guy. I don't know what he has deleted and what he hasn't. I don't care either. I'm saying that based on what he has said in this thread alone, he is making himself out to be slightly tyrannical in that he will warn and delete and ban as he sees approporiate. So I ask, if my limitations and morals are different than his, why is it that his are considered right and mine are wrong?

 

[cubswin]

I personally think this is a fairly well run board. Icon shouldn't of been a moderator, and he isn't anymore. Mr. Wilson isn't anyone that I can complain about. There is no disclaimer that this is a adults only site, so some common decency isn't such a bad idea. I swear like a drunken sailor quite often, but I try not to do it where kids will hear me. In this case I try not to do it where kids can read it.

for a example of a forum where moderation and money fell short look at www.bianca.com

and that was a adult forum, it also at one time in the late 90's was one of the biggest chat forums on the internet, if not the biggest. It now is just a forgotton spot that someone still pays the domain name on...

 

[Koop]

I actually have a hard time understanding why "adults"....a loose term at best, would feel they can act as bad as they want on this board ( private property ) and then **actually** be surprised in the smallest bit when the trash is taken out.

I'll remind everyone, the guy that warned someone for an "f" is no longer here. He's also the guy that banned a bunch of people because they annoyed him.

Nice Dave. Adults used loosely. Here's a thought. Just call those of you are speaking about morons and call it a day.

And BTW, Jeff made the warning but it was at the request of a certain member who likes to do things behind the scenes and delete posts so that he does not have to answer to them.
I would consider an adult someone who puts it out there and is willing to back it up. But that's just me.

 

[pharaoh68]

So its not okay for me to say 'h***' but Tbeaux and a group of other guys can have Avatars of half-naked women?!?! Don't get me wrong! I don't mind the women one bit! But by saying that chicks in skimpy bikinis are okay for all to see but a curse is way too much to handle, thats just (brace yourselves) asinine.

And ironically, no matter how many times I've made my point, quite clearly, a group of people have expressed thier disagreement but not one of them has responded with a plausible argument to defend their beliefs. The closest I got was JAM who made a valid point but only looked at this story from one angle.

As far as Mr. Wilson goes, I'll say it again. If you can make a point and an argument that supports your claim or belief, I will listen and, based on what you have to say, I may be inclined to agree with some or all of what you have to say. But so far, all you have done is simoly say 'I'll hand out the warnings because some stuff is trash!' So I'll ask again and maybe this time I'll get an answer: Who are you to decide what is trash and what isn't? Why should the rest of us have to conform to what you deem to be acceptible?
(And don't just say 'Because I'm a moderator' because that's just a cop out.) Remember, this all started because I asked someone why he was selling a cell-phone in a pool-related forum. Where is the offense in that. Two pages and 20 something responses and STILL no one has answered that!!!!

 

[mikepage]

[...] All I was saying is why is an individual trying to sell a cell-phone in pool-related forum? Hock your crap elsewhere. This is a pool-related forum. [...]

But my pmain point is, who the hell are these moderators to decide what is appropriate and what isn't for a public forum??? [...]

Priceless!

mike page
fargo

 

[Tbeaux]

Back by poopular demand the lil' Debil.......but only for a while ( I've met the half nakey lady!).

Oh,the cell-phone thread and another similar were removed by the moderator. apparently he must have felt you were correct about so many being posted in NPR. Been gone most of the day. Should the Moderator put them back so you can stay mad?

Terry< likes Doritos!

 

[Hal]

I posted the links to a zip drive and cell phones that I had on ebay. I put it in the "Non Pool Related" forum. Is that not allowed? They haven't been deleted either.

 

[Tbeaux]

I posted the links to a zip drive and cell phones that I had on ebay. I put it in the "Non Pool Related" forum. Is that not allowed? They haven't been deleted either.

I think it's if you post each item individually.If you make a group post I think the Pharaoh is OKEY DOKEY with it but I'll let him curse you out so you can know for sure!

Terry

 

[smittie1984]

Free public forums? I'm not so sure about that. I believe someone pays to host these forums here which makes them a private company. Which also gives the owner of the company the right to Refuse Service to anyone. And kick anyone off for whatever reason they so please.

If you do not like it you can buy a domain name and create your own forum where profane language can be allowed.

I'm a cusser myself. But when I get on these pages I try to assume that maybe some 10 year old got a pool table for Christmas and wants to learn what they can about the game. And the last thing they need to view is a bunch of old drunk chain smoking trash talking pool hall junkies talking about how they punched the bar maid last night.

 

[rackmsuckr]

Can anyone tell me who the new mods are? And did Jeff leave totally or just as moderator?

To Pharaoh, the only answer I can come up with regarding Mr. Wilson is that he volunteered or was selected by Mike to do the job as he saw fit and to represent the whole site. I would guess that gives him the last word in any and all decisions regarding movement or deletion of threads.

 

[Tbeaux]

Can anyone tell me who the new mods are? And did Jeff leave totally or just as moderator?

To Pharaoh, the only answer I can come up with regarding Mr. Wilson is that he volunteered or was selected by Mike to do the job as he saw fit and to represent the whole site. I would guess that gives him the last word in any and all decisions regarding movement or deletion of threads.

Mr. Wilson is mod (gee that sounds kinda '60ish), Jeff ....Icon is a subject to be left alone. I'll respect Mike and Daves wishes on that.

Terry

 

[Rickw]

Can anyone tell me who the new mods are? And did Jeff leave totally or just as moderator?

To Pharaoh, the only answer I can come up with regarding Mr. Wilson is that he volunteered or was selected by Mike to do the job as he saw fit and to represent the whole site. I would guess that gives him the last word in any and all decisions regarding movement or deletion of threads.

TAP TAP TAP!!

I thought Mike was very clear about it:

1. This is not an open public forum.
2. Mr Wilson is a moderator and has been given the authority by Mike to monitor and sanction people as he sees fit.
3. At the risk of speaking for Mike, if you don't like it, bye bye now.

 

[Shorty]

I posted the links to a zip drive and cell phones that I had on ebay. I put it in the "Non Pool Related" forum. Is that not allowed? They haven't been deleted either.

Allow me to answer this Hal.

Because I started the thread. No other reason. People follow me around on here like a bunch of groupies trying to start trouble with me. I don't know why, they must have some sort of midget fettish or something.

I honestly don't know why people have a problem with me, but I guess they will continue to harass me until I leave. I am trying to cut back on posting just to please them, but I don't think I can win in this situation.

Shorty

 

[buddha162]

TAP TAP TAP!!

I thought Mike was very clear about it:

1. This is not an open public forum.
2. Mr Wilson is a moderator and has been given the authority by Mike to monitor and sanction people as he sees fit.
3. At the risk of speaking for Mike, if you don't like it, bye bye now.

You're right, Mike was crystal clear about his power over this forum, but does that mean we couldn't talk about it? I think we could, and we should:

So far, I think the moderators have used their authority in the most obnoxious way, moving/deleting threads on a whim often based on their ridiculous pg version of reality. What's good enough for network tv should be good enough for a POOL FORUM, for christ's sake!

No one here is against moderating these forums, but many, many long-time members are perplexed by this sudden shift towards SAVAKian moderation. I read Brian's post towards Shorty, and it is absolutely retarded that it got deleted.

-Roger

 

[buddha162]

I honestly don't know why people have a problem with me

LMFAO! am I allowed to say that?

The fact that you would give yourself a handle "Shorty," toss around "midget fetish" yet run to Mike whenever people express their honest, negative opinions about you and claim they're picking on a defenseless little person is the freaking reason why people have a problem you!

There are so many reasons why you're a potential hazard to yourself everytime you post, and all of those reasons are well deserved, imho. This topic alone deserves its own thread, but it'll probably be deleted anyway.

-Roger

 

[JAM]

JAM-
I understand your point. But you are only looking at one side of the coin... My point is that while monitoring what we say can be beneficial in certain areas, it can lead to an abuse which is why some moderators, who shall remain unnamed, are no longer a part of this forum...But he is inflicting his ethics and morals on us and forcing us to adhere to them...I understand that Mike cannot keep his eye on everything by himself. I know that there needs to be several watchful eyes. But if there really is a need for these watchful eyes, there needs to be a set of rules and regulations that are to be followed, not just what a moderator deems to be appropriate...So I ask, if my limitations and morals are different than his, why is it that his are considered right and mine are wrong?

Pharaoh68, this is the kind of debate which goes on all the time here in D.C., the most recent of which is the Supreme Court nomination, which today will be voted on in the Senate Judiciary Committee.

Imagine Mike Howerton a/k/a AzHousePro as the President of, in this instance, AzBilliards website. He has appointed Mr. Wilson to be the moderator of AzBilliards Discussion Forum. Thereafter, Mr. Wilson is the authority on what is acceptable and/or non-acceptable and from time to time must make decisions. These decisions, though, will not please everybody. IMHO, though, I would like to think that Mr. Wilson is accorded some respect and maybe a little bit of appreciation for spending hour after hour each and every single day in order to keep a sense of normalcy here.

Just like the Democratic and Republican Parties, there will always be debate about what is deemed acceptable forum behavior. In this instance on AzBilliards, I think it would be more fruitful if we just allowed the moderation process to move forward instead of analyzing each move made by the moderator. I don't think it is possible to have every little forum infraction written down in black and white.

In sum, there's a whole new pool world on the horizon, just waiting to be explored. Let's go there instead of debating the pros and cons of the appointed moderator's actions. JMHO, FWIW!

JAM

 

[jay helfert]

AZ forums

I for one appreciate the fact that someone has created the space to discuss all things Pool with other like minded people.
To my knowledge there has never been another link on the net so dedicated to the entire Pool community. It's no accident that this is the most popular billiard related site.
I relate being a "moderator" to being a tournament director, which I've had some experience at. I've discovered along the way that regardless of the decisions you make as tournament director, you will NEVER make everyone happy. But someone must run the show and try to keep order, otherwise there would be complete chaos.
On this site I may not always agree with the policies of the "moderators", but I accept that they are there for a reason.
Just the fact that this discussion about censorship has gone on for several pages and numerous posts is in itself a good thing.
Like many of you I see many posts that are completely asinine (in my opinion), but I respect their right to vent in an open forum. I just ignore them and go on. Because the interesting, topical and informative posts I also find here makes it worthwhile to visit this site.
i do accept the fact that some form of moderation or oversight is necessary
to keep the posts from getting too offensive or personal. One need only look at the discussions of noteworthy news events on Yahoo to see how bad open forums can get.
I think Mike has done a great job in creating a site that keeps pool afficionados up to date on the happenings in the sport. And the various forums are a welcome addition to the mix.
That's my two cents on this topic.