Why is it newer cue makers always

[LAlouie]

How many cues is BHQ going to use those same rings?
So, if the next cue he makes has different colors of butterflys, it's a new ring billet.
And if the next cue is different from the first 2, another ring billet.
If he builds his cues in batches (a lot of makers do) he may be building 5 different ring billets for a single batch of cues. Look at Eric's post. Do that 5 times for 5 cues. It's not just cutting a ring off and slapping it on a cue, even when he has dedicated machinery just for that task. It takes knowledge, time, and money.

Do we have another that wants to try the Ragu cue challange?

I totally understand your point. But to address that specific point, let's go back to the original quote that I addressed,,,,"Doing stitch rings is,,,". Now to me THIS is a stitch ring. In this type of ring there are no match-up issues to address, no lining up issue to address. There are only a few makers I have seen who take the time to line up stitching. Lining up stitching at the joint is tough because you don't know where the shaft and butt will lock. Lining up the joint to the butt is a different matter because since the butt is wider, there is a different number of stitches. If a cuemaker uses the same stitch pattern at the butt as in the joint he will be faced with a totally different number of stitches that cannot line up. In this scenario, in every cue I've seen, the butt/joint stitches don't align unless the cuemaker uses the same number of stitches in each.

And BHQ, thank you for your civil response.

 

[BHQ]

I totally understand your point. But to address that specific point, let's go back to the original quote that I addressed,,,,"Doing stitch rings is,,,". Now to me THIS is a stitch ring. In this type of ring there are no match-up issues to address, no lining up issue to address. A stitch ring has "stitching".

And BHQ, thank you for your civil response.

your welcome sir, im not a hater :thumbup:
just about got my screwup fixed

 

[LAlouie]

your welcome sir, im not a hater :thumbup:
just about got my screwup fixed

I am curious to understand why you feel you have to cut so deeply. I have seen many dowels by good cuemakers, and they don't cut as deeply as you. 1/8" at most.

 

[BHQ]

I am curious to understand why you feel you have to cut so deeply. I have seen many dowels by good cuemakers, and they don't cut as deeply as you. 1/8" at most.

i dunno , no particular reason, they are only .200 deep and the billet was 1.32
my cues end up at 1.21 at buttcap
if that was silver instead of veneers, it be a little different story

 

[radge69]

I totally understand your point. But to address that specific point, let's go back to the original quote that I addressed,,,,"Doing stitch rings is,,,". Now to me THIS is a stitch ring. In this type of ring there are no match-up issues to address, no lining up issue to address. There are only a few makers I have seen who take the time to line up stitching. Lining up stitching at the joint is tough because you don't know where the shaft and butt will lock. Lining up the joint to the butt is a different matter because since the butt is wider, there is a different number of stitches. If a cuemaker uses the same stitch pattern at the butt as in the joint he will be faced with a totally different number of stitches that cannot line up.

And BHQ, thank you for your civil response.

Gotcha, I'm not trying to bust on you, just a good topic. It's still the same process to make the billet and what not. I guess in my mind, if you're going to make a ring like your example, why not go crazy and make them fancy? Now if someone just wanted rings like your example I would do it, but if I'm going down the road of making a billet, then I try to do something more complex if it's my choice.

Like has been said, you can buy pre-made billets in whatever size and colors you want. Granted, they make you pay, but you can get them. You can also buy different color rings and make stacks that look decent without having to make the billet. I think most new makers just try to keep things as simple as possible because there is way too many things they can screw up on, let alone trying to add some fancy ring packs.

pdcue made a great point, the newer makers have a hard enough time getting any decent amount for their cues, let alone adding something that you need to charge a decent amount for. And if they do add those things and not charge extra, then the market is going expect that level of cue for that money. It can be brutal.

 

[bBurton]

If a cuemaker uses the same stitch pattern at the butt as in the joint he will be faced with a totally different number of stitches that cannot line up. In this scenario, in every cue I've seen, the butt/joint stitches don't align unless the cuemaker uses the same number of stitches in each.

You use a indexing on the headstock so you get the same # of grooves. If you are using veneers as the dashes then you won't have to adjust anything but if you are using 1/4" dashes in the butt then you will have scale down the grooves you cut for the joint. I'm just really getting into making cues and learning the hard way but I've been tinkering with it for a couple of years now and my second stick (conversion) has this style of rings. I just wanted a challenge so I gave it a shot. Pics below...

 

[DaveK]

Any new-ish cue builders who might like to start making fancy ring on their mill should PM me about a fixture that I have but don't ever use. It is a nice old cast iron direct-indexing center jig, with a couple of indexing plates. It can handle a little over 8" c-to-c, and will swing well over 1.5" (maybe 4" or so). If you ask via PM I'll point you to a picture.

Sorry for the pitch, now back to the regularly scheduled discussion.

Dave

PS My BHQ has lovely rings, Brent does nice work (at least the stuff he lets out of the shop :thumbup: )

 

[qbilder]

There are only a few makers I have seen who take the time to line up stitching. Lining up stitching at the joint is tough because you don't know where the shaft and butt will lock. Lining up the joint to the butt is a different matter because since the butt is wider, there is a different number of stitches. If a cuemaker uses the same stitch pattern at the butt as in the joint he will be faced with a totally different number of stitches that cannot line up.

I know several builders, including myself, who line up all segmented type rings, whether you call them stitch, dash, etc. We even line them up at the joint. When the shaft locks down to the butt, the rings are lined up all the way down from shaft to bumper, or at least very close. Granted the older the cue gets, the more wear occurs on the joint faces & eventually the rings won't line up exact anymore but they'll always be very close. This is another thing not seen with newbs, and something else not exactly "basic skills".

As for the number of dashes in each ring, in most cases they all match. In my cues, every dash ring consists of eight .125" dashes no matter what size the ring is. As mentioned, it's accomplished with an indexer.

I will say that cues coming out of newb shops nowadays are tremendously better than times gone bye. Equipment is better now than ever before. There's detailed instruction at the click of a mouse, or video or book. It wouldn't be a stretch of imagination to think that soon there will be instructionals on making ringwork with details & pictures & measurements & such. Then making nice dash rings that line up will indeed be a common skill known by any newb builder who wishes to pay for the instruction. Heck, in another ten years there might just be more cuemakers than there are pool players

 

[KJ Cues]

Don't work yourself into a lather, KC. I was merely posing a question. I also said making rings should be a cuemaker's basic skill. Do you agree with that or not? And to my other point, after the dowel is made, the pics of which are so generously posted by BHQ, what is done is to slice off wafers. It's not as if you are going through the whole process for each and every ring. Do you agree with that or not?

No lather and no disrespect either for that matter, but when a master cue maker tells you something and you now want to disagree with him, I have to wonder where you're coming from.
Every CM here that responded to you will tell you the same thing. Ring billets take time and money to build. That's why you don't see fancy rings in PJs and low-end cues. At that point, they are no longer low-end cues.

As far as being a basic skill, no, I don't agree with that. It takes time and experience to build a billet correctly. I come from a machining background so I already had the knowledge of how it's done. Most entry-level CMs don't have the luxury of such a background. They are learning everything from scratch. Some will learn the craft well and in short order. Some, it takes a little longer. Everyone's different.

Now, as far as 'slicing off wafers' from the same billet. Yes, that can be done and is done quite regularly, UP TO A POINT. That point is, that after a while all your cues start to look the same. The originality is gone.
I believe that the ring-work is an area where the CM can let his creativity out. I design my own ring-work & I don't copy. There's no creativity in copying.

Lastly, my name is KJ, not KC. It's 2 letters for crying out loud.
You're in good company though. Blud got it wrong exactly the same way.
No harm done, I've been called worse.

 

[manwon]

Don't work yourself into a lather, KC. I was merely posing a question. I also said making rings should be a cuemaker's basic skill. Do you agree with that or not? And to my other point, after the dowel is made, the pics of which are so generously posted by BHQ, what is done is to slice off wafers. It's not as if you are going through the whole process for each and every ring. Do you agree with that or not?

Partner his name is KJ not KC, and he is a very experienced cue maker. Many of the forums cue makers try and help people with all kinds of problems, however, it is very frustrating when people make light of skills that most have learned through trial and error. If you had asked a question you would not have received the answer that you did, now I suspect that English is not your first language so I also suspect that you meant no harm and that your intent was lost in the translation.

I am a new cue maker compared to many of the experienced people on this forum, and no this is not the first thing most of us learn when we start building cues, in fact in the beginning there is little time for nice things like stitch rings so most new cue makers buy them pre-made or they do not use them. Normally most people building cues learn who to build them by doing cue repair work and then over time they move on to cue making.

If you have never built a cue or done this kind of work I would suggest that you try it before you comment any further, or clearly ask a question so that everyone knows that you are trying to learn something new.

Have a good night

 

[pdcue]

Partner his name is KJ not KC, and he is a very experienced cue maker. Many of the forums cue makers try and help people with all kinds of problems, however, it is very frustrating when people make light of skills that most have learned through trial and error. If you had asked a question you would not have received the answer that you did, now I suspect that English is not your first language so I also suspect that you meant no harm and that your intent was lost in the translation.

I am a new cue maker compared to many of the experienced people on this forum, and no this is not the first thing most of us learn when we start building cues, in fact in the beginning there is little time for nice things like stitch rings so most new cue makers buy them pre-made or they do not use them. Normally most people building cues learn who to build them by doing cue repair work and then over time they move on to cue making.

If you have never built a cue or done this kind of work I would suggest that you try it before you comment any further, or clearly ask a question so that everyone knows that you are trying to learn something new.

Have a good night

Which reminds me...

The OP wasn't a question at all, rather it was a pontification of his idea about rings, disguised as a question.

Any doubt - look at how he disapeared from the discussion...

Methinks I smell a troll...

Dale

 

[manwon]

Which reminds me...

The OP wasn't a question at all, rather it was a pontification of his idea about rings, disguised as a question.

Any doubt - look at how he disapeared from the discussion...

Methinks I smell a troll...

Dale

Dale it certainly looks like your certain right, the guy has 14 posts, and hasn't posted anything else in around 6 months, I thought I smelled shit!!!!!

 

[blackpearlmaker]

thats a long discusion brothers, as what stated above on me, more time consumes in making those ringworks specially if its fancy, thats why i prepare more on this type.

at least i am 1 step. ahead, but still not enough, customers want more and more beauty, that i think this thread was started. Fancy rings are pain to make, even if you have complete tools or equipment it will just ease a little.
Whats the important is that, the skills and experience to do those meticulous things, also things to be considered and i know a challenge also to every cuemaker it to have a unique work, like ringworks. Even if you do the most fanciest ringworks in the worlds, but if its not your originality still useless. I would rather choose the simpler one as long as it is unique and original to me.
Bottomline, people as always want the very best beauty, without knowing the reality on how to do it.

 

[manwon]

thats a long discusion brothers, as what stated above on me, more time consumes in making those ringworks specially if its fancy, thats why i prepare more on this type.

at least i am 1 step. ahead, but still not enough, customers want more and more beauty, that i think this thread was started. Fancy rings are pain to make, even if you have complete tools or equipment it will just ease a little.
Whats the important is that, the skills and experience to do those meticulous things, also things to be considered and i know a challenge also to every cuemaker it to have a unique work, like ringworks. Even if you do the most fanciest ringworks in the worlds, but if its not your originality still useless. I would rather choose the simpler one as long as it is unique and original to me.
Bottomline, people as always want the very best beauty, without knowing the reality on how to do it.

Great post Al.