Why is the butt of a cue stick round?

[JoeW]

Before you think I’m crazy hear me out.

A cue stick is gripped lightly (like an egg) with the thumb and one to three fingers. If the butt had parallel sides this would help to keep the hand in a vertical position. Parallel sides would provide feed back by going out of square when the wrist was twisted. In addition there might be some feedback indicating that the hand was off line from the front to the back of the grip. This would probably depend on the shooter’s sensitivity. It would seem that parallel sides on the butt could provide a substantial amount of feedback to improve one’s shooting ability.

OK I realize the obvious that with a round butt one is constantly changing the place on the cue tip that is used to make a shot. This could be good or bad depending on one’s ability to consistently shape the tip.

Perhaps a different type of tip (such as the Twister?) could give a more consistent hit. In today’s technological world it seems that leather is a bit antiquated. We don’t even use it for many shoes any more.

Some sort of variation of a screw on tip that allowed the tip to be rotated as needed would allow for using multiple surfaces on the cue tip.

Must be something wrong here or people would already have made cue sticks like this. Does anyone know why we don’t have cue sticks with parallel sides?

 

[Chucklez65]

Speaking from complete ignorance on this subject as I dont know the REAL reason, but my theory is that the round but allows the cue to be tapered properly. It would be difficult to get a square cue to be tapered correctly and exactly from top to bottom. Also, a round butt allows it to rest on your fingers lightly and in one spot where a square one would not rest properly on your fingers except at a corner. A square butt would almost have to be personalized for an individual because of different finger lengths and such.

Again, this is just a guess and my theory.

 

[jgpool]

This is what I got for an answer.

Before you think I’m crazy hear me out.

A cue stick is gripped lightly (like an egg) with the thumb and one to three fingers. If the butt had parallel sides this would help to keep the hand in a vertical position. Parallel sides would provide feed back by going out of square when the wrist was twisted. In addition there might be some feedback indicating that the hand was off line from the front to the back of the grip. This would probably depend on the shooter’s sensitivity. It would seem that parallel sides on the butt could provide a substantial amount of feedback to improve one’s shooting ability.

OK I realize the obvious that with a round butt one is constantly changing the place on the cue tip that is used to make a shot. This could be good or bad depending on one’s ability to consistently shape the tip.

Perhaps a different type of tip (such as the Twister?) could give a more consistent hit. In today’s technological world it seems that leather is a bit antiquated. We don’t even use it for many shoes any more.

Some sort of variation of a screw on tip that allowed the tip to be rotated as needed would allow for using multiple surfaces on the cue tip.

Must be something wrong here or people would already have made cue sticks like this. Does anyone know why we don’t have cue sticks with parallel sides?

Here was a thread similar to your question.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=654292#post654292

 

[JoeyInCali]

If u hold the cue with the thumb down and lightly, what for?

 

[X Breaker]

There is a cue maker in Canada called Doug Foster, who builds cues with a hex butt. The forearm is still round and so is the shaft, but the grip area is in a hex shape.

Another cue maker (also from Canada ) Ron Mason used to build trianglar shafts.

The butt of most pool cues are of a conical shape with a circular cross section. I think it is a good design in terms of withstanding and transmitting axial forces down the center axis.

Without doing any test, I cannot say for sure. But off the top of my head, the resonance down the cue could be quite different if the butt section has edges.

About the tip, do you have a flatter side on your tip? I know most players do not, because over time, all sides of the tip got used up pretty much the same. Let's not forget you also play shots with different sides of the tip depending on the shot, i.e. top portion on screw, bottom portion on top, and the side portions for your english shots, even if you hold the cue the same side up all the time.



Richard

 

[Black-Balled]

There is a cue maker in Canada called Doug Foster, who builds cues with a hex butt.
Another cue maker (also from Canada ) Ron Mason used to build trianglar shafts.
Richard

What are you people smoking up there?

 

[X Breaker]

What are you people smoking up there?

I dont know, may be it is a Canadian thing.

We also have a cue maker, Thierry Layani, making cues with a conical joint.

O, and the built in extension that can be pull out and back into the cue. I think that was originated from Ontario, being used by the late Greg Hearn and also Kevin Deroo, both from Canada.

And then there is this guy in Vancouver, who puts a very long shock dampening bumper in his jump break cue, with a greenish brown tip.

 

[Gregg]

I've seen a cue, I don't know the proper name/spelling but it's like "Consiggetti" or simular sounding, and it has a hex type butt.

 

[desi2960]

straightness test

so people without a clue can roll their cue on the table to check to see if cue shaft is straight.

 

[Slider]

OK I realize the obvious that with a round butt one is constantly changing the place on the cue tip that is used to make a shot. This could be good or bad depending on one’s ability to consistently shape the tip.

As far as having your cue tip take on an odd shape because of wear, you could always loosen or tighten the joint to even things out.

Seriously though... I think a cue would have a good feel in the hand if the grip area had maybe 5 or 6 sides. When you start to close your open hand, the shape it makes is definitely not round. Also, with this sort of shape you would still get random hits on the tip. The problem is that in order to be really effective, a grip like this would need to be tailored to the player. What a concept... truly custom cues.

so people without a clue can roll their cue on the table to check to see if cue shaft is straight.

If the butt was shaped after turning, it should still roll straight.

Ken

 

[JoeW]

Thanks X-Breaker, the transfer of forces would seem to be different and you are right about using different portions of the tip. Perhaps the “old” designs are the best ones.

It does seem that with more flesh in vertical contact with the butt there would be more sensitive control of the hand. If this is at the cost of transfer of power consistently then the trade off would not be worth it. In tennis, golf, archery and in target shooting the person has more physical contact with the tool.

Apparently pool playing is much more of a finesse sport than any of these. None-the-less, it does seem that with a round butt one is more likely to twist the wrist. I suppose this could also be the case with a hexagonal or a square butt.

I think I will design some sort of contraption to see if te control is different with a square butt.

 

[CreeDo]

What's the reasoning again? I'm confused. Is the idea to give the player more surface area to grip with? The area's available already on a rounded butt, players just choose not to use it. Is the idea to give the player an idea if he's got the cue 'rotated' wrong? You said it could be good or bad that the hitting area on the tip is different every time with a round butt, but I can only think of ways it'd be good, I can't think of any way it'd be bad. The tip would wear irregularly if you willingly hit the same part every time.

But, on the subject of irregularly worn tips, it's always seemed to me that tip shaper technology is screwed up because it demands that a human use judgment to make the tip rounded correctly. The human has to hold the cue perfectly vertically and rotate it evenly to make sure he doesn't wear one side more than the other. It's not hard to approximate evenness, and to use a nickel to check or whatever, but it seems like we could invent a (portable, cheap) device that takes all the guesswork out of it so that the tip is automatically shaped correctly, even if you have a child doing it.

Sorry for the off-topic stuff ^^

 

[Snapshot9]

Because

they knew you already had prior experience with round object prior to taking up Pool .....

 

[The Piper]

I believe Longoni also makes cue butts that are not circular.

 

[Black-Balled]

... it's always seemed to me that tip shaper technology is screwed up because it demands that a human use judgment to make the tip rounded correctly. The human has to hold the cue perfectly vertically and rotate it evenly to make sure he doesn't wear one side more than the other. It's not hard to approximate evenness, and to use a nickel to check or whatever, but it seems like we could invent a (portable, cheap) device that takes all the guesswork out of it so that the tip is automatically shaped correctly, even if you have a child doing it.

Sorry for the off-topic stuff ^^

It is easy with current tools. You put the tool on the floor and place cue in the shaper, tip down. Then roll between hands, using the weight of the cue or a small bit of downward force to press tip into tool. Ding!

 

[JoeW]

The problem, as I see it, is that a player needs to learn to let their fingers hang straight down or to have very little curl around the butt. When you “grab” the butt there is a tendency to turn the wrist inwards on the follow through. This of course takes you off line.

The idea is easily seen and understood in pistol shooting. Shooters pull the trigger with the tip of their finger because when the whole finger is used there is a tendency for the hand to pull the whole pistol towards the palm. Keeping the tip of the finger on the trigger helps insure a straight pull. The same problem obtains in pool: A tight grip leads to a rotated wrist and pulling the cue.

So we need a light touch. However a light touch on a round object leaves very little surface contact. If the sides of the butt were parallel there would be more surface are for the fingers and hence more feedback to the body. Would that be a good thing? I don’t know and wondered if anyone had worked with this issue.

I do think that CreeDo has a good idea, there is a need for a shaper that can be adjusted to the cue diameter and then rotated like a pencil sharpener to produce the nickel or dime shape on a cue.

All sports evolve over time and more modern technology can make the game better in some ways it is a matter of being creative with today’s tools and not getting too crazy.

OTOH (all puns intended) a round butt allows as much contact as is needed for a particular shot and does allow for hiting the tip in many places. So perhaps a round butt is "best" after all. I don't know, hence the discussion.

 

[pete lafond]

Before you think I’m crazy hear me out.

A cue stick is gripped lightly (like an egg) with the thumb and one to three fingers. If the butt had parallel sides this would help to keep the hand in a vertical position. Parallel sides would provide feed back by going out of square when the wrist was twisted. In addition there might be some feedback indicating that the hand was off line from the front to the back of the grip. This would probably depend on the shooter’s sensitivity. It would seem that parallel sides on the butt could provide a substantial amount of feedback to improve one’s shooting ability.

OK I realize the obvious that with a round butt one is constantly changing the place on the cue tip that is used to make a shot. This could be good or bad depending on one’s ability to consistently shape the tip.

Perhaps a different type of tip (such as the Twister?) could give a more consistent hit. In today’s technological world it seems that leather is a bit antiquated. We don’t even use it for many shoes any more.

Some sort of variation of a screw on tip that allowed the tip to be rotated as needed would allow for using multiple surfaces on the cue tip.

Must be something wrong here or people would already have made cue sticks like this. Does anyone know why we don’t have cue sticks with parallel sides?

I do not grip it super lightly and there are some stroke shots that I require a momentary firm grip, ie longer draw shots when you need to dig the CB into the felt and some stun shots. My guess is that it is more comfortable for the hand. Just a guess.

 

[emf123]

The problem, as I see it, is that a player needs to learn to let their fingers hang straight down or to have very little curl around the butt. When you “grab” the butt there is a tendency to turn the wrist inwards on the follow through. This of course takes you off line.

The idea is easily seen and understood in pistol shooting. Shooters pull the trigger with the tip of their finger because when the whole finger is used there is a tendency for the hand to pull the whole pistol towards the palm. Keeping the tip of the finger on the trigger helps insure a straight pull. The same problem obtains in pool: A tight grip leads to a rotated wrist and pulling the cue.

So we need a light touch. However a light touch on a round object leaves very little surface contact. If the sides of the butt were parallel there would be more surface are for the fingers and hence more feedback to the body. Would that be a good thing? I don’t know and wondered if anyone had worked with this issue.

I do think that CreeDo has a good idea, there is a need for a shaper that can be adjusted to the cue diameter and then rotated like a pencil sharpener to produce the nickel or dime shape on a cue.

All sports evolve over time and more modern technology can make the game better in some ways it is a matter of being creative with today’s tools and not getting too crazy.

OTOH (all puns intended) a round butt allows as much contact as is needed for a particular shot and does allow for hiting the tip in many places. So perhaps a round butt is "best" after all. I don't know, hence the discussion.

This is a good subject, something I've thought about as well. Another comparison to the "real" world would be a knife handle. They're rarely round and used in a similar manner, with a sawing type motion which is similar to a pendulum stroke. A good application for a non-cylindrical butt, in my opinion, would be a break cue. You wouldn't have to worry about the various stroke variations, slip, jacked up, etc, as your hand is in the same place every time. You also wouldn't have to worry about uneven tip wear, at least when compared to a standard cue.

Eric

 

[JoeW]

Just got a really funny image. Couldn’t you see a pencil sharpener type of tool and some guy who is angry because of his last shot. There he is grinding a cue stick down to a nub- I’ll fix this SOB is the caption.

Good point emf123 perhaps we need different cues for different purposes as in break jump cues. With a knife handle on a break cue it could really increase power and control.

 

[CreeDo]

blackballer: The tool on the floor thing is what I use and it seems imperfect to me. I mean, how do I know I'm holding the cue perfectly vertically 90 degrees to the floor? Sighting down it doesn't feel like it's accomplishing anything. Also when I start making the indian-campfire rotating motion with my hands, I definitely feel like it must be wobbling.

Of course all this fuss is probably meaningless. It might be that even with my bad shaping technique, I've still got the cue 87 or 88 degrees vertical, close enough that it doesn't matter.

Joe: I sort of see what you mean, on the other hand a tendency to curl inward even with increased surface area would still be there. More touchable surface area wouldn't really clue you in if you have a bad habit of curling. Probably only a friend or a video camera could do that. I don't see increased tactile feedback as desirable because you want to be less aware of the butt end, not more. Ideally you're not aware of the front end or anything else either, the cue just goes away mentally and you're left with pure execution.

Maybe if I trained with a hex/square butted cue from day 1, I could use it and not be aware of the feel and not feel distracted, but after 10 years of round butts I dunno if I could switch without some subconscious nagging that something back there feels different.

PS: That is a pretty funny mental image, the guy with his cue sharpener gritting his teeth as he grinds away, little cuetip shavings falling to the floor. Everyone slightly scared of him. A scarier version - a gigantic knife he uses to whittle the tip a la crocodile dundee. Caption could be something like 'Ultimate Tip Tool 13™. Multipurpose cue and sharking instrument'