Why Not Bash the IPT? Just Don't Be Malicious.

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
Like most here on the forum, I’m cautiously optimistic about the IPT. I’m hoping for the best, but see reasons for grave concern. We all want to see this venture succeed, and I, personally, have every intention of supporting the IPT in numerous ways. Our posts show just how concerned most of us are about the promise, and yes, the problems, of the IPT, and yet, there are those among us who repeatedly dissuade us from sharing our thoughts with each other.

While quickly admitting that malicious attacks on the IPT not based on the facts are inappropriate, I must admit that the number of posts in which other posters are asked to stop posting negative things about the IPT bothers me a lot. If you have something nice to say about the IPT, say it. If you have something negative to say about the IPT, say it. If you have nothing to say, say nothing. This forum is an open exchange among pool enthusiasts and no developments having a potentially profound impact on pool are off limits around here.

There are numerous reasons that I find requests to lay low on the subject of the IPT objectionable. Here are a few of them:

1) An incredibly elite group of pool historians resides here on AZB
2) Many AZB members have, intend to, or are considering investing money in either chasing the IPT dream or assisting somebody else in doing so. All of them are entitled to, and most likely value, any guidance that AZB forum members have to offer.
3) Most of us have a stake in the success or failure of the IPT
4) Many posters are experienced businessmen capable of providing great insights

An Elite Group of Pool Historians Resides Here on AZB
Predictions about the implications and likely consequences of various IPT actions or policies by the members of this forum is not, as some dare suggest, mere speculation. On this forum, there are dozens, if not hundreds, who have experienced first hand the rise and fall of many a pool organization. They have seen the rise and fall of the PPPA, the PCA, the PBT and Camel Tour, and many other organizations. They know the signs, both good and bad, that tend to foretell a pool organization’s future. These posters are extremely qualified historians in these AZB parts, and I wonder whether a more knowledgeable group of pool historians exists anywhere. Anytime any of these posters attempts to derive meaning from the actions of the IPT, I am interested in what they have to say. Whether it is positive or negative, it is an informed opinion.

Many AZB Members Have, Intend to, or are Considering Investing or Spending
Whether it is as a sponsor, a player considering trying to qualify for the IPT Tour or for a single IPT event, a fan considering attending an event, or just somebody considering buying an IPT membership or IPT merchandise, many forum members have financial decisions to make, the advisability of which must, at least in part, be based on how they perceive the IPT organization. All such persons are served well by hearing all arguments for and against the IPT.

We’ve All Got a Stake in the Success or Failure of the IPT
As players, fans, pool industry members, poolroom proprietors, stake-horses, or potential investors in the sport, most of us have a stake in the success or failure of the IPT. Even most of those who don’t have a significant stake have a friend or relative for whom this is true.

Many Posters are Experienced Businessmen
Countless AZB posters are amply qualified to place IPT operational developments in a proper business perspective. Their insights make for great reading here on the forum.

In Conclusion
To sum, I think those that think they have a right to insist that others refrain from sharing their feelings, whatever they may be, about the IPT, are out of line. Post away, my forum friends, for I wish to read what you have to say about the IPT, whether it is positive or negative. Post with insight, not with malice, but post!
 
I agree. It also seems to me that those who have complaints about the IPT are really the ones who are doing the IPT a favor by providing constructive criticisms. Those that just keep apologizing for the IPT aren't doing it any good by turning a blind eye to the problems that it needs to address.
 
I totally agree SJM. The one difference I see is that the IPT is on a much grander scale than any organization previousy mentioned, it is almost totally opaque to us, and despite our feelings and collective experience we just don't know enough to state "as fact" that the IPT is this or that.

I am not happy about the turn of events. From being so ebulient after attending the LJJ/Sigel event I have come to have grave concerns about the future of this tour. This tour has done a lot to lift the spirits of pool players worldwide and I hope it continues.

As I pledged though, if the payments don't come then I withdraw all my support of IPT. Not a dime of my money nor a minute of my time will be spent helping it to succeed if they don't pay the players or even if this week finishes without the players being paid.

still holding out hope...

John
 
I can see KT & Deno having a list of excuses they are going over right now. Trying to pick which one is the best to use to explain to the players why they have not been paid. I wonder how the foreign players feel? Are they booked to go to Chicago with airfare for the next tournament? Better make sure you buy a refundable ticket.

If you go to the IPT website, the front page now is all but covered about becoming an IPT member. No more pics of Efren and his 500K. No more pics of the mother ship (nice avatar, btw onepocketchump). Let's see $3 million divided by $29.95. That is only 100,166 people that need to join before Efren & the rest of the players can get their money.
 
Good post sjm.

Criticism, when there's a reason for it and when it's written with a constructive style with good intentions, is always a good thing.


By the way, I heard Jose Parica saying that KT has problems with IRS because of his past, and IRS is checking carefully that everything is done in right and discreet way. It might still take couple of weeks to get the checks...


M
 
Marvel said:
By the way, I heard Jose Parica saying that KT has problems with IRS because of his past, and IRS is checking carefully that everything is done in right and discreet way. It might still take couple of weeks to get the checks...


M
This would be much more plausible if they hadn't A) Paid after every round in Orlando and B) Paid at the end of the tournament in Reno.
 
Timberly said:
This would be much more plausible if they hadn't A) Paid after every round in Orlando and B) Paid at the end of the tournament in Reno.


Yeah, don't know much for sure, but could be that IRS snatched now, not interested enough earlier, or something like that..
 
watchez said:
If you go to the IPT website, the front page now is all but covered about becoming an IPT member. No more pics of Efren and his 500K. No more pics of the mother ship (nice avatar, btw onepocketchump). Let's see $3 million divided by $29.95. That is only 100,166 people that need to join before Efren & the rest of the players can get their money.

A most inauspicious development at the worst possible time...
 
Sjm,
I truly appreciate your post, and hope the one on one attacks of poster vs poster subsides.

I also would like clarification of this text;

"This forum is an open exchange among pool enthusiasts and no developments having a potentially profound impact on pool are off limits around here."

It's probably just me but I'm having difficulty understanding the above sentence. Could you explain it another way? Thx IsDr
 
Island Drive said:
Sjm,
I truly appreciate your post, and hope the one on one attacks of poster vs poster subsides.

I also would like clarification of this text;

"This forum is an open exchange among pool enthusiasts and no developments having a potentially profound impact on pool are off limits around here."

It's probably just me but I'm having difficulty understanding the above sentence. Could you explain it another way? Thx IsDr

Seems very clear to me and others who have read it.....it basically means that since this is a pool based forum used by pool minded people, no subject which might be very important to pool as a sport (e.g. IPT and whether it is still a bona fide organisation) should be taboo as a discussion topic on this site.In other words SJM is merely stating that he does not agree with those who say discussion of IPT's apparent shortcomings and problems should not take place on this website:)
 
Island Drive said:
Sjm,
I truly appreciate your post, and hope the one on one attacks of poster vs poster subsides.

I also would like clarification of this text;

"This forum is an open exchange among pool enthusiasts and no developments having a potentially profound impact on pool are off limits around here."

It's probably just me but I'm having difficulty understanding the above sentence. Could you explain it another way? Thx IsDr

IsDr, I know the question was directed to SJM, and I am not speaking for anyone except myself.

My interpretation would be that: Freedom of speech applies to the Az billiards forums. Members and visitors can and should feel free to openly and publically express their personal opinions about any and all matters that concern the pool community at large. Individuals that post opinions about unpopular or controversial topics can and should do so in a civil and non-personal manner, without fear of being personally attacked and criticized for their candor. Or more simply stated, the successes as well as the of failings of any pool related topic is permissible, including the IPT.

SJM, hope you don't mind my inserting my personal interpretation of your statement here.
jimmyg
 
There will be no Chicago tournament. As of this moment, it doesn't exist.


The IPT must pay the players first, otherwise no one will show up for Chicago. If they can't pay the players, there wouldn't be a tournament to show up for in the first place. Why have a tournament costing a couple million when you can't pay the winnings of the last one?


Then again, KT said that it doesn't matter who is in the IPT, like Poker, whomever is on TV will be thought of as the greatest in the world. He should go to the local APA night with a bus and round up some players. LOL.


Are we certain that KT and the IPT hasn't communicated the reason for non-payment to the players with the strict instructions that they are not to disclose the reasons why?
 
Bola Ocho said:
Are we certain that KT and the IPT hasn't communicated the reason for non-payment to the players with the strict instructions that they are not to disclose the reasons why?

BolaOcho, Judging by the lack pf participation from the regular IPT players that usually post pretty often, I would have to believe that they were instructed not to discuss the non payment issue publicly - maybe more like a directive!
 
It's possible. But what would keep them from talking? A fine? LOL. Fine what? Lack of payment?


Even if they threatend a fine or explusion from the IPT, how could they ever prove where it came from. 200 players is a lot of people who know a lot of people. One player could tell his friend or wife and then they tell someone else and so forth and so on.


Impossible to tell. I think they haven't communicated anything, just told them to wait and keep quiet not to bash the IPT. The players are just not bashing the IPT because you don't bash someone who's got your money....
 
Perhaps the IPT players are not bashing the IPT because they have faith in the vision. It takes a LOT of faith to not take the shortsighted view. I wouldn't doubt that all the IPT players have been communicated with on some level about the payment issue.

In truth, it's really an issue for them and their backers and the IPT. It's not our problem. It's not. We are just bystanders. We don't care one bit whether the skateboarders get paid for an X-Games event. We just take it in and are entertained.

This whole speculation game we are playing is primarily for our own entertainment as I see it so far. Like I said before, if we want to truly influence professional pool we should start our own public company and run it.

John
 
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