why not carbide?

snipershot

snipershot

Go ahead.....run for it.
Silver Member
I posted on here a while back looking for some carbide cutting tools for my small lathe and i got a few messages from people who preferred HSS over carbide. Im just curious why? I know that the carbide tools have a radius that makes a sloppier cut than the needle point HSS, but i had some carbide tools ground down and i really like the way it cuts. Plus, its still as sharp now as it was when i first had it sharpened. So other than not having any way of grinding carbide, is there another reason for not using it?

Joe
 
snipershot said:
I posted on here a while back looking for some carbide cutting tools for my small lathe and i got a few messages from people who preferred HSS over carbide. Im just curious why? I know that the carbide tools have a radius that makes a sloppier cut than the needle point HSS, but i had some carbide tools ground down and i really like the way it cuts. Plus, its still as sharp now as it was when i first had it sharpened. So other than not having any way of grinding carbide, is there another reason for not using it?

Joe
Click to expand...

Working on cues you are mostly cutting wood or maybe some phenolic. HSS can be made as sharp as a razor in a few seconds and will cut down wood like butter. Grinding you own tools and getting just the right shape for different jobs, HHS gives you complete control, make anything you want. I have to say, when you are cutting down say a ferrule tenon, with a freshly sharpened HSS cuter the wood will come off like dust. You can take off .001 if you like. I should also add, tool grinding is machining 101. It was one of the first things the teacher had us doing when I went to school for lathes. It is a skill you not only need to know but want to know. You don't want to be dependent on others, you are a craftsman. What kind of musician would you be if you needed someone else to tune your guitar every time you wanted to play?

I am talking about mostly wood and phenolic. As has just been mentioned, there are tasks for both and use what you have found works best for you.
 
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I use both HSS & carbide. Match the tool to the task.
I grind my own HSS & sharpen my own carbide. You shouldn't have to send either out.
You either learn to sharpen your own tools or learn to open your wallet more often.

It doesn't matter that so & so uses HSS or that so & so uses carbide.
They've found what works best for them. That doesn't mean that their choice is right for you.
To each his own. Find what works best for you. IMO, one by itself won't do it all.
BTW, don't try to turn a SS collar with HSS. It might be done but you won't like it.
 
If you grind carbide tools on a bench grinder by hand you need the green tinted "carborundum" grinding wheel, instead of the gray one most people use for general purpose grinding. For super smooth finishes on your cutting edges you need a diamond wheel for carbide or a very fine grit white wheel for HSS and cobalt. Cutters with rough edges will not stay sharp as long as smooth edges will. Also, the radius on carbide cutters is to produce better finishes as well as promote longer tool life.
 
I'm mostly a repair guy, build some jump cues too.
I prefer carbide to hss
I recently switched to the insert tyPe tools.
There are so many different grades and profiles available that there shouldn't be many you can't find a good deal on.
 
snipershot said:
I posted on here a while back looking for some carbide cutting tools for my small lathe and i got a few messages from people who preferred HSS over carbide. Im just curious why? I know that the carbide tools have a radius that makes a sloppier cut than the needle point HSS, but i had some carbide tools ground down and i really like the way it cuts. Plus, its still as sharp now as it was when i first had it sharpened. So other than not having any way of grinding carbide, is there another reason for not using it?

Joe
Click to expand...

You can use carbide if you have access to diamond grinding wheels to properly sharpen the tools.
Carbide is more brittle than hss tools.
Most do not, so make their tools from HSS.
I like to use carbide where I can.It is more rigid than hss and does have some benefits.
 
Hi,

I use carbide on every thing I cut. Lathe tools, saw blades, routers, wing cutter, slitting saws and mico mills. I like the results but after reading about HSS I am going to try it out.

I rarely cut metals other than silver on the cue.

Thanks,

Rick
 
I have a friend who uses a diamond wheel where he works, and he sharpened a few carbide cutters for me, and I dont see myself using HSS ever again. I was just asking for opinions on why more people dont use it, and im sure its because its not easy to sharpen. I used HSS tools a few months ago when I first started this cue making torture, but after cutting a few juma joint collars, or facing off some wood, it seemed like the nice needle sharp point I put on it would be gone. It still cut, but not like it used to. Tonight, I finished my first purple heart sneaky with a steel joint. It was a real pain, and its not perfect, but its a start. After I was done, I realized I didnt face off the joint, so i just ran the same cutter I used to cut the tenon for the joint and collar with right in and took off a couple thou and it shaved it like nothing. When I was done, I checked the point, and its still needle point sharp. Id love to sharpen my own carbide, but buying a new grinder and diamond wheel isnt in the budget, lol. So, with all that said, is there any advantage to HSS other than its easy to sharpen?

Joe
 
kj cues said:
i use both hss & carbide. Match the tool to the task.
I grind my own hss & sharpen my own carbide. You shouldn't have to send either out.
You either learn to sharpen your own tools or learn to open your wallet more often.

It doesn't matter that so & so uses hss or that so & so uses carbide.
They've found what works best for them. That doesn't mean that their choice is right for you.
To each his own. Find what works best for you. Imo, one by itself won't do it all.
Btw, don't try to turn a ss collar with hss. It might be done but you won't like it.
Click to expand...


tap tap tap!
 
snipershot said:
I have a friend who uses a diamond wheel where he works, and he sharpened a few carbide cutters for me, and I dont see myself using HSS ever again. I was just asking for opinions on why more people dont use it, and im sure its because its not easy to sharpen. I used HSS tools a few months ago when I first started this cue making torture, but after cutting a few juma joint collars, or facing off some wood, it seemed like the nice needle sharp point I put on it would be gone. It still cut, but not like it used to. Tonight, I finished my first purple heart sneaky with a steel joint. It was a real pain, and its not perfect, but its a start. After I was done, I realized I didnt face off the joint, so i just ran the same cutter I used to cut the tenon for the joint and collar with right in and took off a couple thou and it shaved it like nothing. When I was done, I checked the point, and its still needle point sharp. Id love to sharpen my own carbide, but buying a new grinder and diamond wheel isnt in the budget, lol. So, with all that said, is there any advantage to HSS other than its easy to sharpen?

Joe
Click to expand...

Read post #4 and sharpen your own carbide tooling.
 
snipershot said:
I have a friend who uses a diamond wheel where he works, and he sharpened a few carbide cutters for me, and I dont see myself using HSS ever again. I was just asking for opinions on why more people dont use it, and im sure its because its not easy to sharpen. I used HSS tools a few months ago when I first started this cue making torture, but after cutting a few juma joint collars, or facing off some wood, it seemed like the nice needle sharp point I put on it would be gone. It still cut, but not like it used to. Tonight, I finished my first purple heart sneaky with a steel joint. It was a real pain, and its not perfect, but its a start. After I was done, I realized I didnt face off the joint, so i just ran the same cutter I used to cut the tenon for the joint and collar with right in and took off a couple thou and it shaved it like nothing. When I was done, I checked the point, and its still needle point sharp. Id love to sharpen my own carbide, but buying a new grinder and diamond wheel isnt in the budget, lol. So, with all that said, is there any advantage to HSS other than its easy to sharpen?

Joe
Click to expand...
"Ever again"?
How do you produce all the tools you will need? You need all kinds of different radius tools, grooving tools, cutoff and compound tools and the number of variations are endless when you are doing machining. I use every one of these for one thing of another. Many are ground on both ends and some have more then one use. One does a groove and then moves over and does a radius. You really can't get tools like these in carbide and in some cases you make a tool you may not use again but need for just one job. Don't limit yourself with terms like, "I don't see myself using HSS ever again". This is not a criticism I can't help be curious why you have no interest in learning all the aspects with the craft, including sharpening your own carbide tools.

Carbide is fine and I must have dozens of them laying around but I could not get by at all without doing my own tool making with HSS. I don't get your comment,

"why more people don't use it, and i'm sure its because its not easy to sharpen".

What makes you think no one knows how to sharpen carbide? I would say almost everyone on here knows how and does. Please take my post in the spirit it is meant, it is not a criticism I am just a hobbyist myself, but have been fooling with lathes since I was a kid, we had a machine shop on the property. I looked at the picture of your shop you posted and it looks like you have a bench grinder in the back. All you need is the right wheels and some practice. There are some good clips on youtube. You can learn to sharpen everything, drill bits, cutters and so on. Amazing all the information that is out there now.

Here are just a few tools that would be hard to get in carbide.
 

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macguy said:
"Ever again"?
How do you produce all the tools you will need? You need all kinds of different radius tools, grooving tools, cutoff and compound tools and the number of variations are endless when you are doing machining. I use every one of these for one thing of another. Many are ground on both ends and some have more then one use. One does a groove and then moves over and does a radius. You really can't get tools like these in carbide and in some cases you make a tool you may not use again but need for just one job. Don't limit yourself with terms like, "I don't see myself using HSS ever again". This is not a criticism I can't help be curious why you have no interest in learning all the aspects with the craft, including sharpening your own carbide tools.

Carbide is fine and I must have dozens of them laying around but I could not get by at all without doing my own tool making with HSS. I don't get your comment,

"why more people don't use it, and i'm sure its because its not easy to sharpen".

What makes you think no one knows how to sharpen carbide? I would say almost everyone on here knows how and does. Please take my post in the spirit it is meant, it is not a criticism I am just a hobbyist myself, but have been fooling with lathes since I was a kid, we had a machine shop on the property. I looked at the picture of your shop you posted and it looks like you have a bench grinder in the back. All you need is the right wheels and some practice. There are some good clips on youtube. You can learn to sharpen everything, drill bits, cutters and so on. Amazing all the information that is out there now.

Here are just a few tools that would be hard to get in carbide.
Click to expand...
I see your point. I guess i shouldnt have said "ever again" for every tool. I should have said i wont use HSS for facing or simple cuts. I see where having all those unique HSS tools would be handy. Also, its not that i dont want to sharpen my own tools, but i can get them sharpened better from my buddy and his diamond wheel. I just figured if he can do it better, why should i sharpen them myself and use a worse tool? I appreciate your input man.

Joe
 
snipershot said:
I see your point. I guess i shouldnt have said "ever again" for every tool. I should have said i wont use HSS for facing or simple cuts. I see where having all those unique HSS tools would be handy. Also, its not that i dont want to sharpen my own tools, but i can get them sharpened better from my buddy and his diamond wheel. I just figured if he can do it better, why should i sharpen them myself and use a worse tool? I appreciate your input man.

Joe
Click to expand...

Thanks, sometimes you don't know how what you say will be taken. It is interesting how just a tiny change in the geometry of a bit can make all the difference when you are cutting certain materials. I have found some ferrules in the past that want to chip or pit and just don't want to come out smooth even to the point you end up changing a brand new ferrule because you just ruined it cutting it down.

Then you make some small change to the cutter and all of a sudden it is perfect. You cut down the ferrule and no more pitting or chips the ferrule comes out ready to be finished sanded. Bits can cut, slice, scrape, or a combination there of depending on how it is ground even doing more then one with the same bit.
 
macguy said:
Thanks, sometimes you don't know how what you say will be taken. It is interesting how just a tiny change in the geometry of a bit can make all the difference when you are cutting certain materials. I have found some ferrules in the past that want to chip or pit and just don't want to come out smooth even to the point you end up changing a brand new ferrule because you just ruined it cutting it down.

Then you make some small change to the cutter and all of a sudden it is perfect. You cut down the ferrule and no more pitting or chips the ferrule comes out ready to be finished sanded. Bits can cut, slice, scrape, or a combination there of depending on how it is ground even doing more then one with the same bit.
Click to expand...

This is why i asked man. I took no offense to your post at all. I value the opinions of most everyone on here, even those i dont agree with. Im here to learn man. Even if a guy is being a dildo, he might know what hes talking about, lol. Ive got several HSS tool squares at home, so maybe i need to goof around and grind them some time. Thanks for all the advice!

Joe
 
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