Why on earth would you buy a cue here!!

M

MattS

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I registered on this site a while back becuase I saw a TS I wanted to buy. It took about two weeks to authorize me. By then of course the cue was sold. :angry: But now I read all these posts of guys getting ripped off. I read about member cuemakers that take peoples money and then make them wait rediculous lengths of time for what? a sneaky pete?
I also see alot of buyers calling out sellers who dont send the cues and then make excuses. Whats worse is there is always some Aholes defending these thieves. Both the cue makers and the sellers. What is wrong with people. I collect cues and I like to buy nice fancy expencive cues but why on earth would I ever buy one from sombody selling on this site. I am not stupid(yeah I know I cant spell)I can clearly learn from the experiances of all the poor guys who have been cheated.
Why the hell dont they do something about it. Press fraud charges!!!!
At least Ebay has buyer protection.
If I ever find a cue on here I have to buy I will use a 3rd party. Proficiant billiards does this for a small fee if ANY seller is not ok with this then they must have bad intentions.
For all you guys who buy cues here STOP!!!!!!! dont do it. Your bound to get ripped off. Maybe AZB should offer there own 3rd party service for cue sales and make a little dough. everybody would be happy except the thieves!!!
 
MattS said:
I registered on this site a while back becuase I saw a TS I wanted to buy. It took about two weeks to authorize me. By then of course the cue was sold. :angry: But now I read all these posts of guys getting ripped off. I read about member cuemakers that take peoples money and then make them wait rediculous lengths of time for what? a sneaky pete?
I also see alot of buyers calling out sellers who dont send the cues and then make excuses. Whats worse is there is always some Aholes defending these thieves. Both the cue makers and the sellers. What is wrong with people. I collect cues and I like to buy nice fancy expencive cues but why on earth would I ever buy one from sombody selling on this site. I am not stupid(yeah I know I cant spell)I can clearly learn from the experiances of all the poor guys who have been cheated.
Why the hell dont they do something about it. Press fraud charges!!!!
At least Ebay has buyer protection.
If I ever find a cue on here I have to buy I will use a 3rd party. Proficiant billiards does this for a small fee if ANY seller is not ok with this then they must have bad intentions.
For all you guys who buy cues here STOP!!!!!!! dont do it. Your bound to get ripped off. Maybe AZB should offer there own 3rd party service for cue sales and make a little dough. everybody would be happy except the thieves!!!
Click to expand...


Now thats funny...Seriously there are a lot of reputable buyers, and sellers on this forum...they are easy to find....:thumbup:
 
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MattS said:
I registered on this site a while back becuase I saw a TS I wanted to buy. It took about two weeks to authorize me. By then of course the cue was sold. :angry: But now I read all these posts of guys getting ripped off. I read about member cuemakers that take peoples money and then make them wait rediculous lengths of time for what? a sneaky pete?
I also see alot of buyers calling out sellers who dont send the cues and then make excuses. Whats worse is there is always some Aholes defending these thieves. Both the cue makers and the sellers. What is wrong with people. I collect cues and I like to buy nice fancy expencive cues but why on earth would I ever buy one from sombody selling on this site. I am not stupid(yeah I know I cant spell)I can clearly learn from the experiances of all the poor guys who have been cheated.
Why the hell dont they do something about it. Press fraud charges!!!!
At least Ebay has buyer protection.
If I ever find a cue on here I have to buy I will use a 3rd party. Proficiant billiards does this for a small fee if ANY seller is not ok with this then they must have bad intentions.
For all you guys who buy cues here STOP!!!!!!! dont do it. Your bound to get ripped off. Maybe AZB should offer there own 3rd party service for cue sales and make a little dough. everybody would be happy except the thieves!!!
Click to expand...


That is a great idea.
 
MattS said:
I registered on this site a while back becuase I saw a TS I wanted to buy. It took about two weeks to authorize me. By then of course the cue was sold. :angry: But now I read all these posts of guys getting ripped off. I read about member cuemakers that take peoples money and then make them wait rediculous lengths of time for what? a sneaky pete?
I also see alot of buyers calling out sellers who dont send the cues and then make excuses. Whats worse is there is always some Aholes defending these thieves. Both the cue makers and the sellers. What is wrong with people. I collect cues and I like to buy nice fancy expencive cues but why on earth would I ever buy one from sombody selling on this site. I am not stupid(yeah I know I cant spell)I can clearly learn from the experiances of all the poor guys who have been cheated.
Why the hell dont they do something about it. Press fraud charges!!!!
At least Ebay has buyer protection.
If I ever find a cue on here I have to buy I will use a 3rd party. Proficiant billiards does this for a small fee if ANY seller is not ok with this then they must have bad intentions.
For all you guys who buy cues here STOP!!!!!!! dont do it. Your bound to get ripped off. Maybe AZB should offer there own 3rd party service for cue sales and make a little dough. everybody would be happy except the thieves!!!
Click to expand...


Very good post Matt, but over all there are many more good people than bad. The site has a great deal to offer, and the knowledge of some of the members is totally invaluable. I have been a member since 2005 and I have learned so many things that I can not recall them all.

I think some kind of third party escrow service would certainly be a plus, and their are many members who will certainly agree with you on this subject. Something, has to happen because these problems have certainly gotten worst over the last two years, and I mean progressively worst.

All I can say is do not give up on the site, there is much more good than bad, and this includes the forum members.

Have a great night Matt!!
 
JohnPT said:
That is a great idea.
Click to expand...

I also 2nd that.

You don't have to get on here to be ripped off. You can just look around and there will be some rip-off artist waiting for the next victim. We just have to be careful on who we deal with.
 
MattS said:
I registered on this site a while back becuase I saw a TS I wanted to buy. It took about two weeks to authorize me. By then of course the cue was sold. :angry: But now I read all these posts of guys getting ripped off. I read about member cuemakers that take peoples money and then make them wait rediculous lengths of time for what? a sneaky pete?
I also see alot of buyers calling out sellers who dont send the cues and then make excuses. Whats worse is there is always some Aholes defending these thieves. Both the cue makers and the sellers. What is wrong with people. I collect cues and I like to buy nice fancy expencive cues but why on earth would I ever buy one from sombody selling on this site. I am not stupid(yeah I know I cant spell)I can clearly learn from the experiances of all the poor guys who have been cheated.
Why the hell dont they do something about it. Press fraud charges!!!!
At least Ebay has buyer protection.
If I ever find a cue on here I have to buy I will use a 3rd party. Proficiant billiards does this for a small fee if ANY seller is not ok with this then they must have bad intentions.
For all you guys who buy cues here STOP!!!!!!! dont do it. Your bound to get ripped off. Maybe AZB should offer there own 3rd party service for cue sales and make a little dough. everybody would be happy except the thieves!!!
Click to expand...
I personally love AZ. I cannot get enough of this site. And after buying some things here (including 3 cues in the last week) you get to feel out the folks and weed out the bad. As manwon said there are MANY more good people than bad that frequent this site. No matter what site you go to you will never have 100% "perfect posters". There will always be the ones who are not satisfied, no matter what you do and you will always have cynics. So just start talking to folks and with a bit of time you will start to see who the good and the bad are, who you would and who you would not like to do business with.

Thanks, John
 
I have bought many cues on this forum and have never had a problem, you just have to know who you are dealing with.

One guy on the forum sent me 12K cue before receiving payment because he knew about my reputation. I had never met or talked to the guy beforehand but we both had people who would vouch for us so it made us both very comfortable.

There are quite a few great guys on this forum and if you have any questions about someone just ask in the thread they are selling the cue. If someone with a lot of posts stands up for some guy you can bet you will get what you are paying for.

If you are buying a cue and have questions about the transaction there are plenty of escrow services that you can use to protect yourself.
 
I've got several overseas transactions and haven't had a single problem- there are plenty of good people here- as in most cases, though, it's the bad ones who get the most press.
 
The good and the bad are everywhere,in every sphere of life, in every work or business u do u will meet the good and the bad ones.

I think the good ones will out number the bad ones by thousands on this site.If some theif comes on this site and intends to cheat.does not make the whole site bad.There are far more good people around.As u can see i am not a very old member here and i have got all good transactions.
I think one needs to be less greedy in terms of what they are getting in terms of price and other particulars.see the history of the seller and than go for the transaction.

I can also suggest a formation of a comittee of about 5 highly respected az members, so if someone has any doubt about any transaction than he can refer to these people. and they can advise the right way to go about the transaction.
 
Monto you bring up a good point. From what I have seen in the past AZ members certainly look out for one another. I once had an offer from someone wanting to buy something I had for sale. Not ten minutes later I received a pm from at least 6 people telling me not to deal with that guy. Same story I wanted to buy a cue from a guy who posted in the for sale section so I posted and asked him a question. Again within minutes I had a few pm's telling me not to do business with that person.

Thanks, John
 
I may have come off wrong. I am not blaming AZB. I also realy like this site. I am not complaining about it at all. Ok I was a little irrtated that it took 2 weeks to give me access. I wanted to buy that Szam TS!! but I realy cant blame them, they dont know me.
I am disgusted with the sellers who take money and loose cues in the mail. I am also disgusted with cue makers who promis a cue and it takes more then a year from the due date. FOR A SNEAKY !!!!!
But what may be the worst is when sombody bashes the poor guy who is getting screwed and defending the scum who is scamming.
I am looking at this from an "outside" perspective as I dont realy know anybody here. I see a huge problem but I also see a simple solution.
For buying a cue use a 3rd party. AZB could make a liitle dough providing this service. Of course they may want nothing to do with this idea and thats their peragative. So all the buyers should DEMAND a 3rd party and find a reputable service.
As far as the cue makers go that continualy screw people.......STOP BUYING THEIR CUES!!!!! If you have to have one send a deposit not the whole payment or better yet buy a cue that is already finished. Also dont take the cuemakers word for it that the cue is finished. They obviously dont care about thier reputation so why trust them? Make them use a 3rd party also.
BTW Manwon I have read many of your posts and if there was anybody here that I would trust it would be you. However after reading of all the rip offs I would still be weary. It just doesnt seem that hard to take some precautions.
 
MattS said:
I may have come off wrong. I am not blaming AZB. I also realy like this site. I am not complaining about it at all. Ok I was a little irrtated that it took 2 weeks to give me access. I wanted to buy that Szam TS!! but I realy cant blame them, they dont know me.
I am disgusted with the sellers who take money and loose cues in the mail. I am also disgusted with cue makers who promis a cue and it takes more then a year from the due date. FOR A SNEAKY !!!!!
But what may be the worst is when sombody bashes the poor guy who is getting screwed and defending the scum who is scamming.
I am looking at this from an "outside" perspective as I dont realy know anybody here. I see a huge problem but I also see a simple solution.
For buying a cue use a 3rd party. AZB could make a liitle dough providing this service. Of course they may want nothing to do with this idea and thats their peragative. So all the buyers should DEMAND a 3rd party and find a reputable service.
As far as the cue makers go that continualy screw people.......STOP BUYING THEIR CUES!!!!! If you have to have one send a deposit not the whole payment or better yet buy a cue that is already finished. Also dont take the cuemakers word for it that the cue is finished. They obviously dont care about thier reputation so why trust them? Make them use a 3rd party also.
BTW Manwon I have read many of your posts and if there was anybody here that I would trust it would be you. However after reading of all the rip offs I would still be weary. It just doesnt seem that hard to take some precautions.
Click to expand...

Matt thanks for the compliment, but there are many here who are certainly trust worth. For some one to be a go between or act as an Escrow service in addition to being honest they must also have the ability to accurately access a cues condition. This would include having the necessary equipment (An accurate properly functioning Lathe, Dial indicators to check for run out, and a good set of both digital and standard Calipers) to properly determine the diameter and trueness of the the cues butt, shafts, finish and all other aspects of it's sellers description. All of the above is part of being a qualified Escrow service for low and high end cue transactions.

Many people who are certainly honest do not have this ability, and when a cues condition is stated as being a certain % this is many times only an opinion. However, let me also say, these opinions in most cases are based upon the sellers knowledge, and while they may not be completely accurate, this doesn't make the seller dishonest. The Blue Book of Cues is the only guide many have to access a cues value and condition. While this is a great reference book, and it has a wealth of information it certainly is the not final word on this subject.

Matt the only way to truly get the necessary experience to accomplish the above is to handle large numbers of cues, and have a complete understanding of cue construction and materials used over the last 100 years. So when all is considered, the number of people qualified to do this begins to shrink rapidly.

I do agree that AZ could benefit from having a forum member who has the above qualifications and one who is known and trusted by the forum membership. Like I said in my previous post I think you have a great idea, and it would certainly help those members who do not have this experience themselves. But, I am also certain that many may not be able to afford this type of service, so who ever would be willing to do it, must treat each situation on a case by case basis, I mean a little charity never hurt anyone.

Just my thoughts!!!
 
MattS said:
I may have come off wrong. I am not blaming AZB. I also realy like this site. I am not complaining about it at all. Ok I was a little irrtated that it took 2 weeks to give me access. I wanted to buy that Szam TS!! but I realy cant blame them, they dont know me.
I am disgusted with the sellers who take money and loose cues in the mail. I am also disgusted with cue makers who promis a cue and it takes more then a year from the due date. FOR A SNEAKY !!!!!
But what may be the worst is when sombody bashes the poor guy who is getting screwed and defending the scum who is scamming.
I am looking at this from an "outside" perspective as I dont realy know anybody here. I see a huge problem but I also see a simple solution.
For buying a cue use a 3rd party. AZB could make a liitle dough providing this service. Of course they may want nothing to do with this idea and thats their peragative. So all the buyers should DEMAND a 3rd party and find a reputable service.
As far as the cue makers go that continualy screw people.......STOP BUYING THEIR CUES!!!!! If you have to have one send a deposit not the whole payment or better yet buy a cue that is already finished. Also dont take the cuemakers word for it that the cue is finished. They obviously dont care about thier reputation so why trust them? Make them use a 3rd party also.
BTW Manwon I have read many of your posts and if there was anybody here that I would trust it would be you. However after reading of all the rip offs I would still be weary. It just doesnt seem that hard to take some precautions.
Click to expand...
While I see your point. I always think it is funny when someone new comes here and tells everyone what they are doing wrong and to "STOP" doing this or that.

There are many relationships here that you simply do not know about. There are some people here that I would send anything I had for sale to them on a phone call or PM. Money is not an issue, they like it you get money. In the same breath are there some scumbags who will screw you to make a buck. Until you know who is who your 3rd party idea is pretty good but I don't think it makes a lot of sense to tell a bunch of grown men to stop doing something they have been doing successfully for years based on reading a few "I'm pissed cause I didn't get my sneaky" threads.

The bad actors are not hard to figure out once you know what is going on. I could go into why I think there is so much cue drama here but if you look closely it usually the same guys involved, so that should tell you all you need to know.

AZ has the deepest and widest base of pool knowledge and experience in the world. There is so much here to learn and enjoy, don't get side tracked or turned off by a few silly deals that went wrong. If you are not comfortable just don't buy. No big deal. The preaching probably won't work out too well for you though. Welcome and enjoy.
 
MattS said:
But what may be the worst is when sombody bashes the poor guy who is getting screwed and defending the scum who is scamming.
Click to expand...


I'm going to take that as it's pointed at me since I was the only one holding up an end in that thread. Dude, I wasn't defending anyone, all I was saying is that things do happen that get out of our control and that instead of barbecuing that guy straight out everyone should back off and let the time frame he gave at least come around.

According to the posts in the thread it all seemed very feasible to me that what he said was the truth and I just thought he was taking way too much heat before it was necessary. And I also stated that if it turns out he's lying that I'd help with the BBQ.
MULLY
 
My Score on this site!

Bought 2 cues (went great).

Got totally screwed on another (still deciding what to do before I post his name).

JED
 
manwon said:
Matt thanks for the compliment, but there are many here who are certainly trust worth. For some one to be a go between or act as an Escrow service in addition to being honest they must also have the ability to accurately access a cues condition. This would include having the necessary equipment (An accurate properly functioning Lathe, Dial indicators to check for run out, and a good set of both digital and standard Calipers) to properly determine the diameter and trueness of the the cues butt, shafts, finish and all other aspects of it's sellers description. All of the above is part of being a qualified Escrow service for low and high end cue transactions.

Many people who are certainly honest do not have this ability, and when a cues condition is stated as being a certain % this is many times only an opinion. However, let me also say, these opinions in most cases are based upon the sellers knowledge, and while they may not be completely accurate, this doesn't make the seller dishonest. The Blue Book of Cues is the only guide many have to access a cues value and condition. While this is a great reference book, and it has a wealth of information it certainly is the not final word on this subject.

Matt the only way to truly get the necessary experience to accomplish the above is to handle large numbers of cues, and have a complete understanding of cue construction and materials used over the last 100 years. So when all is considered, the number of people qualified to do this begins to shrink rapidly.

I do agree that AZ could benefit from having a forum member who has the above qualifications and one who is known and trusted by the forum membership. Like I said in my previous post I think you have a great idea, and it would certainly help those members who do not have this experience themselves. But, I am also certain that many may not be able to afford this type of service, so who ever would be willing to do it, must treat each situation on a case by case basis, I mean a little charity never hurt anyone.

Just my thoughts!!!
Click to expand...

I fully agree with Manwon on this subject. I am kinda curious which TS it was got you all wound up though.
 
MattS said:
I registered on this site a while back becuase I saw a TS I wanted to buy. It took about two weeks to authorize me. By then of course the cue was sold. :angry: But now I read all these posts of guys getting ripped off. I read about member cuemakers that take peoples money and then make them wait rediculous lengths of time for what? a sneaky pete?
I also see alot of buyers calling out sellers who dont send the cues and then make excuses. Whats worse is there is always some Aholes defending these thieves. Both the cue makers and the sellers. What is wrong with people. I collect cues and I like to buy nice fancy expencive cues but why on earth would I ever buy one from sombody selling on this site. I am not stupid(yeah I know I cant spell)I can clearly learn from the experiances of all the poor guys who have been cheated.
Why the hell dont they do something about it. Press fraud charges!!!!
At least Ebay has buyer protection.
If I ever find a cue on here I have to buy I will use a 3rd party. Proficiant billiards does this for a small fee if ANY seller is not ok with this then they must have bad intentions.
For all you guys who buy cues here STOP!!!!!!! dont do it. Your bound to get ripped off. Maybe AZB should offer there own 3rd party service for cue sales and make a little dough. everybody would be happy except the thieves!!!
Click to expand...

Well MattS you are shall we say new in our community, it is like the community where you reside.:welcome: Mostly for the most part good people,:shrug: and a few bad people who seem to make the news, and get all the press coverage.:wave2:
 
Wow ...

Don't let a bad deal on here steer you against custom cues ... There are many good cue makers on here that you would love to deal with and would change your whole outlook on Custom cues as well as the people who make them... Some that I can personaly recommend are Leon Sly , Jimmy Lee , Doug Patrick , Joe Baker , Eddie Wheat and Breant Hartman (BHQ) to name a few I have either done business with or talked to ... And they are awesome people ...

One of the biggest things I would recommend is do your homework talk to the cue builders and feel them out ... Then look up some of the older AZ'ers look in thier signitures most of them list any cues they have or cues that are being made ... If you see a cue maker in thier signiture or a cue there that you are interested in shoot the AZer a pm and see if he had your cuemaker make the cue for him and what kind of person and experience that was ... And just don't do it once do it with several AZ'ers until you are satisfied with the cue maker you chose and feel confident and secure ... And just to be safe save all the pm's and recorded records of the deal and conversation that you can just in case you ever need it ... This should help you make a much better selection and chances are more succesful that you will enjoy the experience .... Rather your dealing with a Custom or Production cue there is always a chance that something can go wrong .... But if you do your homework those chances can be greatly reduced... :thumbup:
 
The King said:
Don't let a bad deal on here steer you against custom cues ... There are many good cue makers on here that you would love to deal with and would change your whole outlook on Custom cues as well as the people who make them... Some that I can personaly recommend are Leon Sly , Jimmy Lee , Doug Patrick , Joe Baker , Eddie Wheat and Breant Hartman (BHQ) to name a few I have either done business with or talked to ... And they are awesome people ...

One of the biggest things I would recommend is do your homework talk to the cue builders and feel them out ... Then look up some of the older AZ'ers look in thier signitures most of them list any cues they have or cues that are being made ... If you see a cue maker in thier signiture or a cue there that you are interested in shoot the AZer a pm and see if he had your cuemaker make the cue for him and what kind of person and experience that was ... And just don't do it once do it with several AZ'ers until you are satisfied with the cue maker you chose and feel confident and secure ... And just to be safe save all the pm's and recorded records of the deal and conversation that you can just in case you ever need it ... This should help you make a much better selection and chances are more succesful that you will enjoy the experience .... Rather your dealing with a Custom or Production cue there is always a chance that something can go wrong .... But if you do your homework those chances can be greatly reduced... :thumbup:
Click to expand...

If all else fails you can always great a few Pit Bulls and some Pork chop's!!!:rotflmao1:
 
AZ Billiards is the place you wanna be to start your research when your ready to buy a good cue.

A lot of the Cue Dealers and Cue Makers who have nice web sites are members of AZ.

This is the place to shop. Even if you don't find the cue in these forums, you'll be able to find out where to find it from our members here.

And, as I know your seeing, when deals go bad with certain people or cue makers, you'll find out that to in short order too!

I may be just lucky but I've had nothing but great experiences with all the people that I've dealt with and made some really great friends.

Sorry you didn't get that cue you wanted, I don't know why the delay in your becoming a AZ member had anything to do with it, you could have still accessed AZ and have gotten a phone number or someway to contact the seller.

But, well now your a member, so Welcome !!

Tommyd1
 
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