Why pool is a tough sell in today's climate.

[Roadie]

While watching the WPC I have come to the conclusion that pool is a tough sell on TV because it is too slow.

There is plenty of time for the announcers to speculate on how the player is going to play, why it's so hard/easy, the player's history, what they think the player is thinking, what the player's form has been, how the player has never missed a shot in fifteen year's until just a moment ago, talk about how tough tournament pool is, talk about themselves, tell pool stories, and plenty of other filler between shots. Between games there is enough time to show all the shots from the previous game in slow motion. The same game that we just agonized over for what seemed like five minutes between shots.

Basically it's a lot of waiting around for some critical shots that the announcers have to build up anyway. Pool is truly the hardcore fan's game.

I get totally bored watching the best players in the world. It's just not that engaging. Sure, there are moments but most of it is boring. I don't know what the answer is to make pool more exciting but I can tell you that Tennis and Golf are looking at what they can do to be more engaging as well.

Perhaps the filler should be less of the blah, blah commentary that is often not accurate and more of the characterization of the players with mini-bios and interviews, factoids, similar to the World Poker Tour broadcasts. Something that captures the attention more than just two minutes of speculation about what the player should do.

Like I said, a tough sell. And I am a willing customer.

 

[DougT]

Good post.
Another thing done on poker programming is the announcers watch the action, the editors trim the program into manageable chunks, and the announcers voice-over their analysis. I don't know if that's being done on pool at all. Much shorter bursts, with tension building up

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

Perhaps pool is more tantalizing when it's delivered delayed instead of live. The programs on ESPN are all packaged into one-hour programs, which probably makes it a more interesting format to watch.

If you think pool is slow, try watching a golf tournament. ZZZZZZZ. The cameras continually shift from one group to another and back, just to maintain a "fast pace" and keep viewer interest.

 

[Da Poet]

More than a decade ago, for a short time, I worked in the sales dept at a well known pinball machine and arcade game company. Since the pinball machines at the time, were made in the same building, discussing ways of promoting pinball was always a hot topic and any and all ideas were welcomed and discussed. If I were to change the word pinball with pool in those discussions, many of those meetings would sound identical to what we might be reading on this forum.

Pinball had it's movie, "Tommy", that catapulted sales. The idea of sponsoring a movie with a pinball theme was discussed.

Tournaments were promoted. I don't remember exactly what the prize money was, but players came in from all over the country. We were disappointed in the press coverage as probably all tournament sponsors are.

The one thing that we all agreed on was that pinball is much more fun to play than to watch. We all knew there was no way around this and there was no way to change it.

The notion of televise pinball tournaments was a joke at best, especially since my primary role was an associate producer in the department that made promotional videos for the games prior to their release.

In pool, at least it is possible for other people to watch and it is possible to televise.

However, televised pool has a problem over live pool that it will never overcome.

Pool, like pinball, is more fun to play than watch. Even live pool. No matter how interesting pool is made on television, this factor will never change.

This is not to say that pool can't be good TV. I'm just saying playing the game is televised pool's primary competitor.

 

[bruin70]

Perhaps
If you think pool is slow, try watching a golf tournament. ZZZZZZZ. The cameras continually shift from one group to another and back, just to maintain a "fast pace" and keep viewer interest.

you mean those golf tournaments sponsored by lexus with thousands of spectators and more watching on tv, versus pool sponsored by simonis and sir george gloves with about 87 people watching TOTAL? you mean that golf?

pool is interesting to roughly the total membership of azb + ccb. to paraphrase bill parcells,,,"you are what your record is"

 

[ironman]

While watching the WPC I have come to the conclusion that pool is a tough sell on TV because it is too slow.

There is plenty of time for the announcers to speculate on how the player is going to play, why it's so hard/easy, the player's history, what they think the player is thinking, what the player's form has been, how the player has never missed a shot in fifteen year's until just a moment ago, talk about how tough tournament pool is, talk about themselves, tell pool stories, and plenty of other filler between shots. Between games there is enough time to show all the shots from the previous game in slow motion. The same game that we just agonized over for what seemed like five minutes between shots.

Basically it's a lot of waiting around for some critical shots that the announcers have to build up anyway. Pool is truly the hardcore fan's game.

I get totally bored watching the best players in the world. It's just not that engaging. Sure, there are moments but most of it is boring. I don't know what the answer is to make pool more exciting but I can tell you that Tennis and Golf are looking at what they can do to be more engaging as well.

Perhaps the filler should be less of the blah, blah commentary that is often not accurate and more of the characterization of the players with mini-bios and interviews, factoids, similar to the World Poker Tour broadcasts. Something that captures the attention more than just two minutes of speculation about what the player should do.

Like I said, a tough sell. And I am a willing customer.

I can't stay awake for the duration of match for the life of me.

Pool Players all over the world are labeled gamblers. Risk takers. Cash in on it, as Roadie suggests, more bios and interviews. Give the viewers something to be intrested in.

 

[PoolBum]

The drama of world-class pool is lost on the recreational player and the general sports viewing audience.

Poker is currently popular I think in part because of the huge money sometimes at stake, and also because you can now see the players' hole cards and play along. That makes it dramatic, because you're in on the action and there's a lot of money at stake. Even with those elements I think poker is waning in popularity now as well.

I think most people find watching pool about as entertaining as watching chess. Also, no one hits anyone in pool. If we could find a way to make pool a contact sport we might have a chance in today's entertainment climate.

 

[bruin70]

T,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I think most people find watching pool about as entertaining as watching chess. Also, no one hits anyone in pool. If we could find a way to make pool a contact sport we might have a chance in today's entertainment climate.

hockey pool.....

earl demeaning an opponent for using a jump cue, then out of nowhere a hockey player blurs in from the left side and plasters earl to the table and skates on. now that's entertainment.

 

[Roy Steffensen]

They should start with small sets.

For example:

each set race to 3 alternate breaks, best of 5 sets. At least it makes it more exciting.

They should also have 2 or 3 tv-tables on at the same time, so they can switch in between matches, while racking, in boring periods of matches and so on...

 

[RiverCity]

They should start with small sets.

For example:

each set race to 3 alternate breaks, best of 5 sets. At least it makes it more exciting.

They should also have 2 or 3 tv-tables on at the same time, so they can switch in between matches, while racking, in boring periods of matches and so on...

Then it could be just like poker, where the odds favor no one. Skill becomes meaningless, and every joker sitting in a lazyboy in their living room will think they can play too.......
Ive said it for years, and most people would have to agree with this logic. Look at football, baseball, basketball, golf, nascar etc etc etc..... what helps make these large draws is that people can "get behind" their team, or their player or driver..... It is a set season format (can be based on a round robin style bracket), where everybody gets paid a fee, and can earn more by the better they play/win. Work it like nascar etc with a points race (points earned for finish position in the games) that culminates in some sort of finale between the top 2 players. The players can be drawn for different divisions, you can have playoffs between the different ones etc etc etc.
There are alot of time tested and proven marketing ideas out there that work. Just having individual tournaments, taping and airing them...... well that concept has failed for years for professional pool. Even the IPT, with all the flash and money promises stuck with the old tournament format....... thats a part of their problem too.
Then there is the reality that there needs to be big money pushing behind it. Not a con mans promise. If you got the beer companies to push it like miller is pushing poker right now......... you would have an in your face, stylish, clean cut version of pool that people could follow and get behind.

As rich as pools history is with gambling, and hustling etc...... if it is to be marketed to the mainstream, that image needs to go. The public has a very poor image of pool, and its players as thieves, con men, hoods who break thumbs....... We need to get behind the game. Get the youth of the country involved. Show people it is a fascinating game, full of skill, imagination, logic and some talent. Promote collegiate pool, promote a kids league. Put the adult professionals in the lime light, just as football, baseball etc does with its players.
Just a thought......
Chuck

 

[jediphil]

more of the players need to be known we cant expect people to watch two guys play each other at pool or any sport if they dont know them.
i get bored watching pool unless for what ever reason (usually a bet) im rooting for one of them.

in the uk, snooker used to be a massive tv draw, davis v taylor in 1987 had half the country watching the deciding frame at one in the morning.

but the snooker players were known to everyone pool players need more coverage more exposure let people get to know a player and then they will support them when they play. more people in britain would recognise a third rate footballer than a world pool champion.

 

[Roy Steffensen]

Then it could be just like poker, where the odds favor no one. Skill becomes meaningless, and every joker sitting in a lazyboy in their living room will think they can play too.......
Chuck

Would it be so bad for our sport and the interest of it if every "lazyboy in their living room" thought they could be the world champion, and started to join local and regional tournaments? Didn't think so...

And: To beat Efren you still need at least 9 games... Maybe you even get more than 9 games, but lose... (3-2,2-3,3-2,2-3,3-2 then you have lost 13-12)

My point is that it will be more exciting, but you still need a lot of skill to get at least 9 games to win against the top players!

 

[Island Drive]

What's Wrong with WPA Manila

While watching the WPC I have come to the conclusion that pool is a tough sell on TV because it is too slow.

There is plenty of time for the announcers to speculate on how the player is going to play, why it's so hard/easy, the player's history, what they think the player is thinking, what the player's form has been, how the player has never missed a shot in fifteen year's until just a moment ago, talk about how tough tournament pool is, talk about themselves, tell pool stories, and plenty of other filler between shots. Between games there is enough time to show all the shots from the previous game in slow motion. The same game that we just agonized over for what seemed like five minutes between shots.

Basically it's a lot of waiting around for some critical shots that the announcers have to build up anyway. Pool is truly the hardcore fan's game.

I get totally bored watching the best players in the world. It's just not that engaging. Sure, there are moments but most of it is boring. I don't know what the answer is to make pool more exciting but I can tell you that Tennis and Golf are looking at what they can do to be more engaging as well.

Perhaps the filler should be less of the blah, blah commentary that is often not accurate and more of the characterization of the players with mini-bios and interviews, factoids, similar to the World Poker Tour broadcasts. Something that captures the attention more than just two minutes of speculation about what the player should do.

Like I said, a tough sell. And I am a willing customer.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As I have played 9-ball my whole life (and beat some of the best in match play) while watching the best players in the world on TVU I feel like an aspect of the game is missinig but what is it?

We talk about seeding, longer races, winner breaks, loser breaks, round robin, dbl elimination but are we complaining or saying something else, all the while trying to figure out what is best for the game?

What is 9-Ball? I've always thought of it as an Agressive, Fast Paced, Great Shot Making game with INCREDIBLE Cue Ball movement, SPIN and control.

What has happened.........its become TOO precise with minimal cue ball movement and its because the pockets are TOO SMALL FOR 9-BALL. When your out of line with extremely tight pockets you ""can't work the cue ball"". Also a casualty of this........you can't let your stroke out and catch another gear and RELAX and play better and better. The game now has slowed down WAY TOO MUCH.

I find it hard for me to enjoy 9-BALL as I think it should be played. The general public doesn't care if the pockets are extremely tight, they enjoy great shots, cue ball spin and ACTION. Its always the players wanting the conditions their way, the game itself of 9-ball needs the table set up for the 'sport' of 9-ball not precision BALL POCKETING, BORING.

The game thats before us....will not allow the 9-ball style of BUSTAMANTE TO BE SEEN
again, "AND THAT IS NOT GOOD FOR THE SPORT".

 

[Colin Colenso]

Fact is, most, if not all pool production is B grade content! Not produced creatively or very well.

Take the WPC going on at the moment. The cameramen are pretty new to shooting the game, the commentators don't even have a telestrator (to draw lines on screen), pathetic graphics, and most commentators were pulled in from the audience.

No offense meant to Jerry or Jay. Man, they have done a fantastic job for first timers, but imagine how better they might be after sitting in with a panel of NBA commentary experts with 20 years of experience for 6 months!

These are mostly point and shoot productions. Low quality. Valuable only to the passionate pool lover and those with few other options on TV.

IPT has given real production a go, but from what I have seen, they have not managed to capture anything that will get large audiences much more excited.

Poker realized the need that viewers need to know what is going on almost by graphics alone. Pool hasn't done that nearly as well.

They also created an interesting twist, where the audience knows more than the players. The opposite is true in pool coverage.

The whole concept of pool event production needs an arm twisted 360 degrees to create appeal to the masses.

I have a concept in mind, but will patent it before I fully reveal it.

Colin

 

[av84fun]

Roadie...Excellent views...as usual. Sudden Death 7 Ball and the shot clock are intended to lessen the problem but in my view...the greater issue is that pool LOOKS too easy...and ironically, quite obviously, the better the player, the easier it LOOKS.

Everyone understands how difficult it is to keep a 320 yard drive in the fairway...or to burn a backhand down the line or to throw a football 60 yards and hit a moving target on the numbers.

But knocking the little pool ball into the hole from a couple of feet just does not LOOK very hard. Of course, getting into the position where every shot is easy is what is HARD but the general public just doesn't get it.

Pool is like watching a golf match where all that is shown is 3 foot putts!

Even experienced pool players don't fully "get it" which is why so many great roadies rob so many "advanced" pool playing gamblers by giving some sort of weight when in fact, in a winner breaks format there IS no weight big enough to save the mark. Tough to win a race to 9, regardless of the weight, when some guy is putting 6 packs on you fairly routinely!

I LOVE pool and I watch tv matches over and over...with my TIVO system...but NOT because it is exciting...only to learn from watching.

Pool has had its chance to become a major, nationally popular sport in America but it has not succeeded and never will IMHO...for much the same reason that soccer has never become popular as a tv event IN THE U.S. The reason being...to the American eye, soccer is boring.

But none of that means that tv pool matches or pool tournaments are DEAD as is so often suggested. They are NOT dead. There have been MAJOR tournaments continuously for a hundred years and matches have been televised on ESPN since its earliest beginnings...and there will ALWAYS be tournaments televised. It's just that there is a certain viewing audience for them and it is not terribly large.

Same for the "Outdoor" type hunting/fishing sports programs etc.

Finally...while I HATE the way the Mosconi Cup matches are broadcast...i.e. cut into matches when the score is already 4-2...race to 5 and when there are about 4 balls left on the table....I would GUESS that the ratings for that show are higher than most televised matches. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

But the reason for that format...i.e. virtually "match highlights"...is just as you point out Roadie...the game is boring to watch except for those few viewers who truly appreciate a 3 rail draw shot to perfect position.

But here's the way to fix the problem. Just have a trap door under each shooter and if he misses, he gets flushed down a tube slide into a pool of sharks that haven't eaten in a few weeks forcing the player to swim for his life. HUGE ratings then!
(-:

Jim

 

[FLICKit]

Perhaps pool is more tantalizing when it's delivered delayed instead of live. The programs on ESPN are all packaged into one-hour programs, which probably makes it a more interesting format to watch.

If you think pool is slow, try watching a golf tournament. ZZZZZZZ. The cameras continually shift from one group to another and back, just to maintain a "fast pace" and keep viewer interest.

Comparisons between pool and golf and other games are interesting. To the non-playing observer, both are very boring.

Two big advantages that golf has:
It is conducted outdoors in an extremely manicured environment. Naturists can at least stop and take a moment to glance just to see the scenery. Unlike pool which is conducted indoors in an often quite seedy and boring environment. Very limited, if not none at all, attention to atmosphere. Golf is outdoors with the sun, rolling greens, historic grand buildings with an expansive view. Pool is indoors in a very confined smoke filled area, solid boring walls with items like the electric chair and other metallic decor. Clearly not in the short term but the long term effects of the smoking bans could have a very positive impactive step in the right direction (arguments on this can be moved to the appropriate threads). Thus golf is much more women and family friendly to go visit.

Second, golf has developed a quite elitist, genteel reputation. Thus, now when the regular joe goes out and plays golf, there's a subtle feeling of being special or a sort of nobility attached. Golf has recently hit an explosive growth, due to one fact. The game always appealed to an elite, but the game hit whole new levels of notoriety when it had a star that so many different facets of life could relate to, Tiger Woods.
Pool is quite opposite. The nobility of pool is not what shines through, but instead the sort of lower class hustler, seediness of pool.

The game of golf has developed a wide appeal as the game of choice for senior citizens. Pool should actually be a better choice. If have trouble with eyesight, then that affects both games. But other than that, most ailments that affect people's ability to play golf (bad back, hips, limp, weak arm mobility issues), do not have anywhere near the effects on the ability to play pool (with the one big exception being breathing ailments). I'm sure we all have had experience with some old fogey in the pool hall, that most everyone knows to have respect for their game, due to experience, ability, and those bag of tricks that they have at their disposal.

Another market that should be expanded for pool is women. Pool is one of the best athletic activities where women can theoretically very reasonably compete with men. With the single most notable physical difference between men and women being the power break, virtually all other aspects of the game allow equal opportunity for women. Pool is only at the beginning stages of exploring this, but soon this could have monumental impact. First we've had to tone down some of the testosterone from the pool community, and removing the seediness will add to that.

With the toning back of the testosterone, the seediness, and the anti-public-friendly environment of pool establishments, then this will open the doors to the next level - children involvement in pool. With the mathematical and mental aspects of pool, pool could be a very valuable addition to the growth and development of teenagers. When this occurs, this will help the American ability to regain dominance in pool amongst the world community.

(Hmmm... this is an aside question: do the phillipine and asian have pool establishments similar to what's here in America, or do many of them have a more upscale, non-seedy pool environment?)

When these factors come together and begin broadening, then pool will become a much more sellable commodity. Some of the other issues with production quality, and workability of various gaming formats (8-ball, 9-ball, race to 9, race with mulitiple smaller sets...) for popularity will be ironed out by then. So, we have from now until then to handle those issues and continue to increase the monetary compensation in order to maximize pool's success.

 

[jwilliams]

How about a differnt view or a little devils advocate...

I constantly hear people talking about how pool needs to shake off it's "not so glorious past" of gambling. My question is this....why?

I think pool keeps trying to attract a demographic it is "NEVER" going to acquire. The so called average American household just has to much other stuff going on and no vested interest in the game of pool.

Poker attracts people who are interested in gambling on one level or another. How many tournament poker players do you know who object to cash games? They even broadcast cash games on tv to very high ratings.

Perhaps pool should try marketing high stakes money games where the posters and players are bio'ed and the tension of winning or losing is actually felt. Especially if the players are putting up there own money! It's one thing to loose a tournament and only win 10 grand, it's another thing to lose a match and lose 10 grand! People can relate to that pressure if they've ever bet a nickel on anything.

I mean look at history itself...why is it that nearly every man woman and child on the planet knows who Minnesota Fats is, even though he wasn't even close to being the greatest? He was constantly bragging about gambling exploits that made peoples heads spin. Unbelievable wagers, that even while doubtful, were insanely entertaining.

I recall at the DCC a couple years back there were maybe 150 people watching the finals match of the 9-ball tournament and about 500 people watching a back table gambling match between two guys who's names I won't mention. Why is this?

Here's another side of it to consider. The more people that are against it and the bigger the fit they throw about it, the more press and publicity it acquires! Look at "shock jocks", "gangsta rap", "violence on tv", etc! The more bad press they get and the more people holler, the more popular they get. When trying to acquire the public eye "Any press is good press."

My point is this, pool should go with it's strengths and not attempt to be something it is not, nor will it ever be. Play to your strengths, and avoid your weaknesses. Anything else is a waste of time and will only end in defeat.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Finally...while I HATE the way the Mosconi Cup matches are broadcast...i.e. cut into matches when the score is already 4-2...race to 5 and when there are about 4 balls left on the table....I would GUESS that the ratings for that show are higher than most televised matches. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Jim

Jim,
The Mosconi Cup broadcast in much of the rest of the world is complete. It's a shame that is it edited up for US viewing.

Regarding your other opinions that pool will never be popular, many would have said the same about poker 5 years ago.

Pool has as much potential as poker imo. But no one has produced content on it that appeals to the approx 40 million people who enjoy playing pool in the US.

The Hustler and the Color of Money prove that people can enjoy pool en masse if presented right.

But what we see now is just a point and shoot of tournies. Booooring to most viewers. At least until they care about about the stars, like the Philippinos do with their countrymen.

Even in Mainland China we have TV commercials with Pan Xiao Ting and Ding Jun Hui and their photos on buses around the country. This is done by sponsors and is drawing in additional sponsors. People care about people they know, and they care about interesting stories they can follow. Li He Wen just created a new story, being a semi-finalist of the WPC in the first year that a Chinese Mainland player has ever played in the WPC. He'll end up with national coverage here and deservedly so.

US players and promoters have dropped the ball. KT has made an effort, but it looks more and more like candy cotten being dipped in a raging river.

Colin

 

[Colin Colenso]

Comparisons between pool and golf and other games are interesting. To the non-playing observer, both are very boring.

Two big advantages that golf has:
It is conducted outdoors in an extremely manicured environment. Naturists can at least stop and take a moment to glance just to see the scenery. Unlike pool which is conducted indoors in an often quite seedy and boring environment. Very limited, if not none at all, attention to atmosphere. Golf is outdoors with the sun, rolling greens, historic grand buildings with an expansive view. Pool is indoors in a very confined smoke filled area, solid boring walls with items like the electric chair and other metallic decor. Clearly not in the short term but the long term effects of the smoking bans could have a very positive impactive step in the right direction (arguments on this can be moved to the appropriate threads). Thus golf is much more women and family friendly to go visit.

That doesn't take into account the huge popularity of snooker in the UK, who's ratings outperform golf there I believe.

It is said that many viewers quite enjoy the passive clicking of balls by gentlemen in suits over an attractivly colored game. It's a kind of fish bowl chess game on coloroids to many viewers it seems. (If you can grasp that metaphorical analogy).

Colin

 

[chilli66]

That doesn't take into account the huge popularity of snooker in the UK, who's ratings outperform golf there I believe.

It is said that many viewers quite enjoy the passive clicking of balls by gentlemen in suits over an attractivly colored game. It's a kind of fish bowl chess game on coloroids to many viewers it seems. (If you can grasp that metaphorical analogy).

Colin

Very true about the snooker in the UK, most people I knew back there would always be watching & talking about "last night's game" at work. However, if pool was being shown hardly any of the same crowd would watch. I always got the impression pool was looked upon as "just a pub game." Add to that most people were unfamiliar with 9-ball so they lost interest quickly.

Another side of it is the players themselves. I did notice the ratings for snooker were dropping off in the last few years before I moved to the US. I think some of that is due to the fact there are fewer real characters on the snooker circuit these days. No Alex Higgins, Jimmy White is past his best & you're left with the newer faces who, to be honest, could all be the same person! I would say Ronnie O' Sullivan is the exception & he is still a big draw.

If pool was shown often enough that the viewers can get used to the players I think it'd stand a better chance of taking off. I know we all bemoan Earl's antics but that will make folks watch the games! Just to see what he'll be complaining about! Plus when a snooker player like Davis is seen playing pool it'll get people's attention, if only to see how a snooker legend fares at a game that the viewer themselves can perform at reasonably well.

I think pool does stand a chance of doing well on TV, it's just how it's presented. Give the viewer time to get to know the game, the players, etc.