Why Pool is devastated by the new Smoking Laws.

[chefjeff]

We are getting off topic.

Could we please hear from a room owner who has been in business for many years, who's business has improved since the smoking laws took affect?

There are the seen and the unseen effects from the bans.

The seen is easy: My clothes and hair don't smell when I get home.

The unseen is not so easy:

How many potential new rooms never happen as businessmen decide that if they can't call the shots in their own room, why bother?

How many smokers have gone elsewhere for theri entertainment?

What is the actual losses of income due to the bans?

What effect does govt banning have on a Person's psyche and does that translate into less business overall?

If pool rooms can be controlled by those who don't use them, what other economic losses outside the poolrooms reduce entertainment dollars, thus poolroom income?

A lot more questions come from just a little thought.

Jeff Livingston

 

[chefjeff]

In Ohio they did something really stupid. They passed the ban but apparently forgot to fund any enforcement of the ban. Therefore, of the 6 bars that my league visits, I only know of one that asks smokers to step outside. Other than that one, the other 5 do next to nothing different now than they did before the ban. At most there isn't ashtrays on every table. You either have to just ask for one, or use the nearest empty beverage container. BTW, one of these is really a pool hall that happens to serve drinks, and they are as smoky now as ever.

Someone else said it and I agree, if people really like to play pool, I don't think the smoking ban is going to drive away customers. Inversely though, by not enforcing it, and still having smokey pool rooms, I think the environment might discourage potential new customers.

That is another unseen....the disrespect for legislation. That might be seen as good or not.

Jeff Livingston

 

[chefjeff]

If you were aware of how our economy works , you would know the "teabaggers" are for LOWER taxes. LOWER taxes mean more TAKE home pay. That means YOU have more to spend.We have teaparty people because our economy has sunk to levels and people know something has to be done to wake our goverment up, before another depression hits.I used to come on AZ to read about Pool not politics.

There's another unseen.

What percent of income is taken to enforce this legislation and how does that reduced spending power of the people affect pool?

Jeff Livingston

 

[chefjeff]

I think this has been lost in the discussion. As you say, the smoking bans aren't going anywhere so what can poolroom owners do to attract new customers?

There's another unseen.

How much of a poolroom's resources must be used now to market vs. before the bans?

Jeff Livingston

 

[chefjeff]

He and his buddies and his girl can have a few pops at the poolhall, hit some balls, and (OMG) take a few steps outside (maybe even check Facebook on the phone while out there), and, you got it, have a smoke.

Another unseen.

What effect does the player waiting inside for the smoker to come back and finish his match/game have on business? What business is lost because of the slower play now?

Jeff Livingston

 

[franko]

Agree

Enough already. The pool rooms were on running on fumes even a few years back. Then the economy went into the tank like many of us have never seen before. Unemployment was over 10%, foreclosures skyrocketed, stock investments tanked, etc.

And guess what, very good restaurants went out of business, so what chance did some "fringe" pool rooms have in surviving?? Like they say in politics, it is the economy stupid !!

I think the poolroom I play in survived because of the very strong leagues and the great pizza they have..... but I"m pretty sure they are not living high on the hog right now either ....

Nobody dropped out of our league (16 teams) when the smoking ban hit Illinois, and most of the smokers who I thought would be pissed off, were not mad, and actually understood. Heck, they liked that they were smoking less while playing pool and even saving a few bucks in the process.

Don't believe, try and get your team in our Thursday night league at Pyramid Club in Addison... about 20 miles west of Chicago. 16 teams and we have 5 on the waiting list for next session which starts next Thursday...

There are many reasons why pool rooms are in the tank or have shut down, but smoking is not one of them.

I agree you have made some very good points.

 

[KRJ]

There's another unseen.

How much of a poolroom's resources must be used now to market vs. before the bans?

Jeff Livingston

Surely, you jest? Marketing before the ban ??

 

[KRJ]

Another unseen.

What effect does the player waiting inside for the smoker to come back and finish his match/game have on business? What business is lost because of the slower play now?

Jeff Livingston

Well, table is still by the hour, so one would have to assume their games will strech out over longer times and thus pay more in table time.......good point

 

[chefjeff]

Surely, you jest? Marketing before the ban ??

Markting is usually the highest cost for a business and the most work.

Increasing those costs surely has an effect on a poolroom's income.

Jeff Livingston

 

[Paul Schofield]

You said "The new smoking laws are a catastrophic blow and a dagger through the heart of the business of pocket billiards"

I assume you are a pool player. If that is not a complaint, I don't know what is.

Anyway, yall can talk all you want.... it will do about as much good as you guys talking about curing cancer.

This is just not a complaint at all. I am saying that this is a fact. I am conceding that eventually, a smoking ban will be the law of the land, everywhere, even in your own house. So for poolrooms, now what? This thread is not about the politics of the ban. Its about the poolrooms and our game going forward. I will state emphatically, that the answer to survival and growth lies in expanding to a different demographic which means pool has to be more, different, and better.

I am going to ask again. Is there a long standing room who's business has benefited from a smoking ban? If so, what did you do inside your business to make it work for you?

 

[stumpie71]

This is just not a complaint at all. I am saying that this is a fact. I am conceding that eventually, a smoking ban will be the law of the land, everywhere, even in your own house. So for poolrooms, now what? This thread is not about the politics of the ban. Its about the poolrooms and our game going forward. I will state emphatically, that the answer to survival and growth lies in expanding to a different demographic which means pool has to be more, different, and better.

I am going to ask again. Is there a long standing room who's business has benefited from a smoking ban? If so, what did you do inside your business to make it work for you?

Give Barry Berhman a call and ask him how much business he has lost since the ban in Va. It went into affect in 09. You either have a separately ventilated area separated from the non smoking area or smoke outside. Every time I go there the wait list is longer for the non smoking tables than for the smoking ones and the place is packed from 5pm until I leave around 10 or so usually with a wait-list. I believe the addition open after the ban went into effect too.

 

[stumpie71]

Markting is usually the highest cost for a business and the most work.

Increasing those costs surely has an effect on a poolroom's income.

Jeff Livingston

Around here the rent is the highest cost by far. One room I play in the rent runs roughly 10000 mo and it's not in a premium spot either. Their business starting dropping off before the ban and took a small hit afterwards. Now it's starting to pick up again. Most of their business is drawn from league play. The smoking teams left to play in the rooms were you could still smoke. They have come back because they can't stand all the smoke. While the business is still down overall (economy) they have seen a slight uptick with the smoking teams wanting to play out of there.

 

[Paul Schofield]

Give Barry Berhman a call and ask him how much business he has lost since the ban in Va. It went into affect in 09..

Thank you. I will do that.

 

[Paul Schofield]

Only one thing can be garnered from this thread.

This discussion demonstrates the contrast of gross mis-perception of customers and the harsh realities of being a business owner. I was hoping for hard facts from current and former room owners.

 

[Tony_in_MD]

Maybe you should have posted this thread in the "Ask the Room Owners" forum then.

BTW this article came from a thread about St. Louis banning smoking in that same forum.

http://www.freep.com/article/20110501/NEWS06/105010489/Bar-owners-staff-health-officials-call-year-old-state-smoking-ban-drag?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

Only one thing can be garnered from this thread.

This discussion demonstrates the contrast of gross mis-perception of customers and the harsh realities of being business owner. I was hoping for hard facts from current and former room owners.

 

[Paul Schofield]

Maybe you should have posted this thread in the "Ask the Room Owners" forum then.

BTW this article came from a thread about St. Louis banning smoking in that same forum.

http://www.freep.com/article/20110501/NEWS06/105010489/Bar-owners-staff-health-officials-call-year-old-state-smoking-ban-drag?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

Tony-I was going to but there is so little activity there that I thought it would fall on deaf ears.

 

[TheBook]

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Can it really be because of the smoking laws or is it just something that smokers want to contribute it to?

There are too many factors that are causing recreational changes. People don't go to the movies like they use to and they never could smoke there, but they still attend baseball, football and etc even though they can't smoke at those games anymore.




.

 

[Paul Schofield]

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Can it really be because of the smoking laws or is it just something that smokers want to contribute it to?

There are too many factors that are causing recreational changes. People don't go to the movies like they use to and they never could smoke there, but they still attend baseball, football and etc even though they can't smoke at those games anymore.




.

You should read this thread again. I am clearly saying that this is a demographic issue. Each recreational activity has its own and very different demographic.

 

[Tony_in_MD]

It may, but I also know that there are a heck of a lot of pool room owners who never heard of AZ, or have been online. So trying to get answers from pool room owners here will be problematic at best.

To get the answers you may have to do this the old fashioned way, by calling or writing room owners.

Perhaps a survey instrument would be beneficial, there are a number of folks on the board that have experience with them.

Is there any centralized organization besides the BCA that maybe could get involved in this? Seems to me this is something that they should be interested in participating in.

Surely the demise of pool has been happening long before the smoking laws went into effect, and is related to many factors both societal, and financial. The smoking laws were just another nail in the coffin.

Tony-I was going to but there is so little activity there that I thought it would fall on deaf ears.

 

[cueandcushion]

Tony-I was going to but there is so little activity there that I thought it would fall on deaf ears.

Hi Paul. Got your private message asking me about the new Clean Air Act Law in St. Louis that prohibits most public areas from smoking and how it has affected our business.

We have been smoke free about 13 months now.

A short history. Our store is mostly retail and our 17 table billiard parlor accounts for about 9% of our income on the average. Some years more some less. Due to most retail customers being sensitive to smoke we have always had a strong desire to clean and keep smoke damage to a minimum. We admittedly have not always been successful. Smoke will get into everything and everywhere and leave an odor and a stain. Due to my lung problems, and to help reduce the smoke we installed 4 commercial smoke eater machines in the 80s to reduce smoke. We also installed a 36 inch ventilation fan which removes air from the building. Even with all this we had issues with smoke. Many customers would comment about the smoke when coming in the first time. Many customers that were used to bars or places without theses measures would comment how it was barely noticeable. We spent about 10 man hrs every week cleaning trying to keep the level tolerable for non smokers.

Jan 1,2011

This is when the Clean Air Act went into effect. Most smokers called it the Anti Smoker law or something similar. It was titled with some politically correct phrase but I don't have the link for the official title. For two years about 50% of our hardcore smokers informed us they would not be back after the law went into effect so that is what we expected. Before the law took effect we constructed an outdoor area with bench for smokers. We also had warning signage of when it was going to happen. When the ban took effect we saw a change about 30 days into the new year. Our business started growing. The 145 businesses (approximately) in the St. Louis County area that got smoking exemptions became saturated with heavy smokers. This had the effect of pushing out many light smokers and non smokers. Two pool rooms near us went under, both had smoking exemptions and allowed smoking. Our business kept going up. Ladies and couples on dates would stay longer due to not having to worry about smoke odor on their clothes. We have lost about 2 customers that I know of that cannot play pool because of not being able to smoke. I know we currently have added to our regulars many smokers because they have light habits and would rather take a smoke break than play in a room that has TOO much smoke. During the past year I also took up the task of repainting our entire drop ceiling and our walls. I also took 100% of every picture off the walls in the past year and scrubbing the paneling of smoke residue. I think this effort to make our place look better and smell better had a positive effect on the casual player and brought back many players that had given up pool due to the smoke factor. Our air conditioning bills are lower now due to less residue on the coils. Our tables need less cleaning because of nicotine making the rails sticky. I am still working on the room to this day. Still cleaning. Still painting the drop ceiling. I started on this project again this week. I know we are lucky to still be surviving in this bad economy but all I can do is make heart felt efforts to do the right thing and work extra hours hoping the public will take notice and give pool another chance.

Final tally. Our pool business went up about 20% or more since the smoking ban went into effect. Ball park guess. Havent gone over the books yet.