Why reds and yellows in Accu-stats 8 ball?

One possible solution to this is to have numbers superimposed on the balls for TV/computer viewers so the announcers and viewers are on the same page. This wouldn't be rocket science. The players certainly don't need the numbers or solid/stripe denotations on the balls to play.

I fail to see how numbers on a red/yellow set would be any more visible or distinguishable than the standard solid/stripe. We would be twisting our heads around to see the numbers doing a dance in our computer chairs to figure it out half the time.

I say superimpose the numbers on the balls, it won't matter what numbers are assigned to each set so long as the announcers and viewers are on the same page, the players could remain completely oblivious to this and it would not change the outcome of play.
 
Better for pool

I think the red and yellow balls are
better for broadcast of any kind
and better for pool in general.

Most people have a rudimentary
understanding of 8 ball rules and the
two colors make it far easier to follow
the play.

It must be frustrating for the general
public to try to follow the play when
an announcer refers to the balls by
numbers which are unreadable and
unknown by a casual viewer.

The people who play (us) can follow
the play either way but the red and
yellow balls make it far easier for others.

If you want more people to play and learn
pool, make it as easy to understand as possible.

I doubt there are many chess players who didn't
start with checkers.
 
Last edited:
Jodacus said:
I think the red and yellow balls are
better for broadcast of any kind
and better for pool in general.

Most people have a rudimentary
understanding of 8 ball rules and the
two colors make it far easier to follow
the play.

It must be frustrating for the general
public to try to follow the play when
an announcer refers to the balls by
numbers which are unreadable and
unknown by a casual viewer.

The people who play (us) can follow
the play either way but the red and
yellow balls make it far easier for others.

If you want more people to play and learn
pool, make it as easy to understand as possible.

I doubt there are many chess players who didn't
start with checkers.
Click to expand...
If this was on free tv I can see the "better for pool" argument having some merit. But it isnt. Its online PPV meaning it's going out to people who:

A. Know what Accu-Stats is in the first place
B. Pay to watch pool online

Pretty safe to say anyone who checks those two boxes probably knows which ball is which. So the "better for new fans" argument doesnt work for me.

Props to Accu-Stats for an innovative event and trying something new. I don't personally like the red/yellow balls but if enough people do like it to the point the response gets another event to happen more power to them.
 
3andstop said:
On an aside ... waddia mean between the colors and Danny D you only lasted 10 minutes. I love DD's banter. :)
Click to expand...

Danny is a nice guy and I respect the hell out of all he has done but I just don't care for his commentary at all. Billy is my favorite by a wide margin but even with him in the booth too I can't fade it.

Just a personal opinion thing. Different strokes for different folks and all that.
 
Celtic said:
Commentators need to stop that crap of trying to detail out the entire rack anyhow. They do not do it in snooker, they let the players play the game and only comment when interesting situations arise. Way too many pool commentators think it is their job to attempt to guess the entire runout pattern after the break, that is not what they are there for and it is annoying as all hell.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I mean if there are 3 yellows all in the same corner simply commentate after the player has executed the shot and elaborate on it then if need be, i.e., "Playing that ball last allowed him to get up table..." etc etc.

Pat is trying something new (not entirely as Bob pointed out). Don't be so quick to judge. Anything that makes the physical layout of the table more transparent is solid in my book *shrug*

I wonder how many threads there were when the pink 4 ball was introduced? :rolleyes:
 
You're right

JCIN,

You are right!
Being pay per view means a special
group of people are the only ones
willing to pay for it.

But what about the six year old son
who casually watches because his dad
is and suddenly comprehends the game
because now he can understand what
needs to happen next without the confusing
numbers (which he can not see). The same
thing can happen with any other casual
observer.

If people realize this make pool more appealing
to the masses isn't this a step in the
right direction? Where is the harm?

You and I can follow the game anyway. The
narration can learn to deal with it.
 
JCIN said:
Danny is a nice guy and I respect the hell out of all he has done but I just don't care for his commentary at all. Billy is my favorite by a wide margin but even with him in the booth too I can't fade it.

Just a personal opinion thing. Different strokes for different folks and all that.
Click to expand...


I understand and I hear ya, although I think you might be in a very unique minority there.

I can enjoy almost anyone knowledgeable in the booth with the exception of those guys with the english accent and the uptown and downtown references. They make me contort my mouth trying to enunciate like them during the match and then I end up with a jaw ache.

That, to me, is very literally too annoying to listen to for an entire match and I do turn the volume off.

Aside from that, it's all good. :)
 
I like the red and yellow for 8 ball but it is no good if there is a commentator for the match.

If we cannot get a set of balls that can be differentiated by the viewer then the best solution is to make it so that the commentators or engineers can tell them apart and point out to the viewers what is what.
Maybe some kind of telestrater or overlay system?
 
smoooothstroke said:
Maybe some kind of telestrater or overlay system?
Click to expand...

They have a telestrater, they just use it for maybe 1 shot out of every 75.

And i kind of agree with Justin on the commentating, i'm sure there must be people born after 1970 who can do good "lively" pool commentary without singing songs from the 1930's between racks, i'm sure my grandfather would love it but he's dead.
 
As to the balls -- Pat Fleming is a clever, innovative guy. He likes to try new things that might be an improvement, and he likes to please his customers as well. I haven't looked this up, but I seem to remember that he actually took a poll on the type of balls to be used in an event like this.

As to commentators -- and I don't necessarily mean the ones for this event, as I have not yet watched this event -- I agree with what Celtic said in post #18. In fact, here's something I wrote along the same lines about 10 months ago after watching another streamed event: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=3260186&postcount=13
 
Maybe Pat was concerned that JoeyA might stop by and want to do some commentary, as that's one guy who can't identify the balls to save his life.

A classic example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgi5Fo3wGo4

As the match progressed, the tension between the Freezer and his broadcast partner became almost palpable.
 
AtLarge said:
As to the balls -- Pat Fleming is a clever, innovative guy. He likes to try new things that might be an improvement, and he likes to please his customers as well. I haven't looked this up, but I seem to remember that he actually took a poll on the type of balls to be used in an event like this.

As to commentators -- and I don't necessarily mean the ones for this event, as I have not yet watched this event -- I agree with what Celtic said in post #18. In fact, here's something I wrote along the same lines about 10 months ago after watching another streamed event: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=3260186&postcount=13
Click to expand...

The solution is simple really. Go with red and yellow balls instead of stripes and solids, but put big numbers on them. Problem solved for the viewers and the commentators.
 
DogsPlayingPool said:
The solution is simple really. Go with red and yellow balls instead of stripes and solids, but put big numbers on them. Problem solved for the viewers and the commentators.
Click to expand...

Then what do you do when the number is facing away from the camera?

I don't know what's wrong with the Aramith TV set. It's not difficult to identify the stripes and solids, and it lets the commentators discuss the layout in an understandable manner.
 
I paid for daily session of day 1 (I can't watch evening session due to time difference) and was able to watch only last 4 racks of Efren vs Johnny. But that was enough for me to feel I dislike reds and yellows for pool.
Some say they do make pattern recognition easier, but I disagree. If we go further and imagine straight pool (where all balls are equal) played with all solid balls without numbers (either red or yellow or pick any color). Go figure the pattern now! I even think it could make things harder for a player. Thinking instead of "stop on 4, roll on 13, stop on 5-6-14, and there I have a perfect angle on the 8 for the break", - "stop on this red, roll on this red, blah-blah-blah... oh wait, I forgot which red I was supposed to stop at two shots back"... I'm exaggerating, and 8-Ball is only half of 14.1 rack, but still patterns are less recognizable by viewers (and players I believe).
I know English pool (and Blackball) are played with reds and yellows, and somehow that didn't cause any troubles with me viewing them... I think I know the reason: the table is not a common pool table too! So you are certain to have balls that will not have a pocket to be played to, so most of the time you don't have to care about running out (and thus follow a pattern)!

Stripes and solids (even not numbered) for me personally would have been easier to recognize. Every of us pool players/viewers (apart from color blind people, sorry folks) can tell red striped ball is 11, eh? Even if the number is not there. And opposed to that, I'm sure even in HD picture one would not be able to make difference between two reds carrying a number, even if that digit takes the whole surface of that sphere.
 
TSW said:
Then what do you do when the number is facing away from the camera?

I don't know what's wrong with the Aramith TV set. It's not difficult to identify the stripes and solids, and it lets the commentators discuss the layout in an understandable manner.
Click to expand...

Well, I suppose you could put numbers on both sides of the ball like they've been doing since forever. :grin-square:

But I'm with you, traditional balls are fine with me. Just offering an improvement if they insist on staying with the red/yellow.
 
brandoncook26 said:
I understand that you can see the two groups, but it really diminishes the commentary when they say "I think he's going to shoot the second yellow from the bottom left".

No one plays with the colored balls and I would much rather see stripes and solids. Makes it feel much more like the game I play. I guess I just prefer traditional balls in 8 ball.

I know there was a discussion prior, but I didn't know what decision they had come to until I bought the day matches. Any opinions???
Click to expand...

I have not watched any of the 8 ball matches yet, but may watch some over the weekend. My views on commentary differ from the majority. I don't think it is needed in pool. One of the most interesting matches I have a recording of is Duel and Reyes playing in Japan without commentary. I know this will get hammered, but who needs commentary?
 
DogsPlayingPool said:
Well, I suppose you could put numbers on both sides of the ball like they've been doing since forever. :grin-square:

But I'm with you, traditional balls are fine with me. Just offering an improvement if they insist on staying with the red/yellow.
Click to expand...

Right... and when neither number is oriented towards the camera? What then? The ball could easily be oriented such that each number is at a 90 degrees angle from the camera and neither number is easily legible.

Another issue is identifying the number. Now we have to distinguish the yellow 1 from the yellow 7, for example. These yellow and red balls just create more problems than they solve!
 
TSW said:
Right... and when neither number is oriented towards the camera? What then? The ball could easily be oriented such that each number is at a 90 degrees angle from the camera and neither number is easily legible.
Click to expand...

This is just silly to go back and forth about this point, so you're right and I'm wrong. :grin-square:
 
Celtic said:
Commentators need to stop that crap of trying to detail out the entire rack anyhow. They do not do it in snooker, they let the players play the game and only comment when interesting situations arise. Way too many pool commentators think it is their job to attempt to guess the entire runout pattern after the break, that is not what they are there for and it is annoying as all hell.
Click to expand...

Agree with the commentator point, though I don't care for the reds and yellows. Not sure what difference numbering them would be, they'd be to small to read anyway.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top