Why Tips Get Changed More Now?

[BasementDweller]

I doubt that shooting soft will wear the tip sooner. I shoot all types of shots, including power shots, so I guess it all comes down to how much we're willing to tolerate as the tip wears down. I feel it immediately once my tip wears past a certain point because I have to work harder. That's my gauge for when it's time to change the tip.

I didn't mean that shooting softer would wear down the tip sooner. I meant that shooting softer (plus using a soft tip) would make it take longer to sort of - break-in your tip. Therefore, you would have to shape it more often to keep it the radius that you like. The shaping of the tip would be what would shorten the life span of the tip. Not the soft shooting.

I read in a recent AZ thread that even the soft tips end up at or near the same hardness level as do the harder tips. They just take longer to get there. It's the process of hardening up the tip that cuts its life short. At least that's my theory.

 

[Otterman]

Same here.....

I can remember playing just about every day with the same tip (LePro) for a good year. LePro's are not what they were years ago...I stopped using them. But even now with the triangles I have to change the tip a lot more often then years ago. Are the tips (like everything else) made to wear out faster? Johnnyt

I still don't change tips that often, but it's way more often than 15-20 years ago when I used LePro's. I change more often now for several reasons. LePro's have always been a little inconsistent in quality from tip-to-tip, so when I got one I really liked on my cue, I did all I could to keep it on there! I'd play with it until it was really thin. Plus, seems like a good LePro would have to be shaped maybe twice during the first week or so and then would hold its shape really well. The new layered tips hold their shape better from day one and most are way more consistent, but like Fran said, all tips are going to flatten some and need shaping. I know I'm a lot more cognizant of the fact that keeping my tip shaped dime-radius gives me the best blend of action consistency and low deflection than when I was younger, so I do shape my tips more. I didn't particularly care back then if it was dime, penny or nickel radiused, but now I know better. Convenience is a big thing for me now, with easy ordering of any tip you could imagine with a few clicks of the mouse and far better adhesives that are readily available at any Home Depot. I was still using Tweeten's tip glue 10 or 12 years ago! Works great if applied and clamped correctly for 24 hours, but now I can drop on a CA gel adhesive that bonds in 30 seconds, trim and shape the tip with my Dremel, burnish it and fine tune the radius in 5 or 10 minutes (I still clamp it for an hour or so because I'm paranoid).

All that said, I'm happy with most of the layered tips I've tried, but I haven't fallen in love with feel of ANY of them the way I loved a nice, broken-in LePro. :grin-loving:

 

[PGHteacher]

For whatever this is worth. I get a lot of life out of a tip because I burnish my tips a lot more than most. Tips will mushroom/flatten (most are made of malleable material and striking a hard surface) you can’t prevent it; if you neglect them this will speed the process. If you cut or grind off the edges AFTER this becomes a problem, you will speed this process.

I personally find it annoying to have virtually anything in my sight line during my address other than ferrul and a little shadow around it; even a little overhang is disturbing so I burnish; the 6 in 1 master tool has a coned end that works great; the Ulti-mate tip tool end doesn’t burnish a tip under 12mm (I find that a little odd) but is great for 13mm.

That’s my take on it anyway; after or before you knock this tip around for an afternoon or evening squish it back into place (if you want tip long life) if you don’t care; no big deal, tips don’t cost much and last for a long time compared to most wear items on most things.

Funny in this thread people get a couple of months to a couple years out of a tip, to both of those I say “humm interesting”; I play 5 days a week, drill etc.. etc.. and couldn’t use up a tip or make it last that long unless I overshaped it, cut it constantly or didn’t keep it in good shape.

I don’t think there is any purposeful effort by the tip manufactures to make them so they wear faster, at least not that I have noticed; I think that would be imprudent considering how much competition is out there. We do have the counterfeiters out there but that’s a different animal.

 

[Johnnyt]

I'm going to try not picking and sanding my tip so much and see if that helps. Like some one said about most of us having too many gadgets to murder our tips with. Years ago I only had a piece of sandpaper and a tapper. It's not that i'm cheap, it's like someone else said on here. When you get that good tip that you can draw the cb with no effort...you want it to last forever. Thaks all. Johnnyt

PS:I have always thought that Fran Crimi never really got the credit she deserved when playing on tour. Two or three others seemed to get all the press when I thought Fran was as good as any of them.

 

[FranCrimi]

I didn't mean that shooting softer would wear down the tip sooner. I meant that shooting softer (plus using a soft tip) would make it take longer to sort of - break-in your tip. Therefore, you would have to shape it more often to keep it the radius that you like. The shaping of the tip would be what would shorten the life span of the tip. Not the soft shooting.

I read in a recent AZ thread that even the soft tips end up at or near the same hardness level as do the harder tips. They just take longer to get there. It's the process of hardening up the tip that cuts its life short. At least that's my theory.

Good point. I use a Kamui black soft; used to play with Moori mediums back when they played a bit softer. There's probably still plenty of tip left when I'm looking to change it. It just becomes harder, which isn't my preference.

 

[FranCrimi]

I'm going to try not picking and sanding my tip so much and see if that helps. Like some one said about most of us having too many gadgets to murder our tips with. Years ago I only had a piece of sandpaper and a tapper. It's not that i'm cheap, it's like someone else said on here. When you get that good tip that you can draw the cb with no effort...you want it to last forever. Thaks all. Johnnyt

PS:I have always thought that Fran Crimi never really got the credit she deserved when playing on tour. Two or three others seemed to get all the press when I thought Fran was as good as any of them.

That's really nice of you to say. Thanks. For me it was a double edged sword. I couldn't afford to put the time in required to challenge the top three or four. For most of my time on tour I had to keep a full time job, so my play was somewhat erratic.

 

[JoeyA]

I used to constantly shape my tip, using primarily a Willard Scuffer or even a brad scuffer and they didn't seem to adversely affect my layered tips.

I play fairly regular and shoot all of the shots except breaking and jumping with my regular playing cue.

My tips used to last about two-three months but I purchased one of those Gator Grip Scuffers by Kamui and now I simply roll my tip across the Gator Grip and it takes far less leather off than other type shaper/scuffers. It textures the tip just enough for it to hold traditional chalk just fine.

So for me, my tips have been lasting longer than ever, but it's primarily because I don't spend a great deal of time "whittling" on them. Before each session I will roll the tip across the Gator Grip and that's it.....no scuffing, no grinding, and no "whittling".

A while back a couple of people reportedly in the know, said that you should allow your playing style to shape your tip and not follow the belief that you had to have a nickel or dime radius and keep it shaped that way. I think I am leaning in that direction these days. :shrug:

 

[ridewiththewind]

I have been using the same Jensen Milk Dud tip for over two years now. I rarely touch it, and there is still plenty left, even tho I like a shorter tip to start. If, for some reason, I do decide I need to scuff it, those cheap emery boards...the white side, do the trick just fine and remove next to nothing from the tip itself.

 

[Scott Lee]

Fran...You also put in a LOT of time as a WPBA executive...which also takes time and effort, away from your game. Kudos to you for that! :thumbup:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

That's really nice of you to say. Thanks. For me it was a double edged sword. I couldn't afford to put the time in required to challenge the top three or four. For most of my time on tour I had to keep a full time job, so my play was somewhat erratic.

 

[whitewolf]

I doubt that shooting soft will wear the tip sooner. I shoot all types of shots, including power shots, so I guess it all comes down to how much we're willing to tolerate as the tip wears down. I feel it immediately once my tip wears past a certain point because I have to work harder. That's my gauge for when it's time to change the tip.

At the US Open I sat on the front row and noticed than Archer's and Immonan's tips were worn down to the bone (ferrule). However, I feel like you, and I would venture to say the pros (super pros that is) like hard tips and that when the tips get compressed they love it.

 

[whitewolf]

I sort single layer tips by arcane methods only known to me and fifty thousand other cue mechanics.

Hu

Well, with my Willard Tip Machine I got 50 LePros, but I can't tell the good ones from the bad ones. Can you please share some of you arcane methods? If not, I will have to go ask Mike Sigel because he does the same damn thing. However, he cannot really tell if a LePro tip is good or bad until he starts playing with it. Then he will cut it off in a New York minute and put another one on.

 

[FranCrimi]

At the US Open I sat on the front row and noticed than Archer's and Immonan's tips were worn down to the bone (ferrule). However, I feel like you, and I would venture to say the pros (super pros that is) like hard tips and that when the tips get compressed they love it.

Not so true anymore. You'd be hard pressed to see Mika with a hard tip or a tip worn to the ferrule. Many are using Kamui black soft these days and they prefer a little cushion.

 

[whitewolf]

A while back a couple of people reportedly in the know, said that you should allow your playing style to shape your tip and not follow the belief that you had to have a nickel or dime radius and keep it shaped that way. I think I am leaning in that direction these days. :shrug:

FYI, Fast Larry says that is a myth. I used to think that way, and maybe still do, but I need the Willard shaper to keep defining my dime shape. I don't use more than 1/2 tip english most of the time, so my tip tends to need to be 'rounded' with the Willard.....cause I want the tip to be able to get english easier if I need it.

Your Kamui tip shaper seems awful expensive when sand paper could do the same thing.

 

[whitewolf]

Not so true anymore. You'd be hard pressed to see Mika with a hard tip or a tip worn to the ferrule. Many are using Kamui black soft these days and they prefer a little cushion.

I like my Kamui super soft tips - so I don't feel so 'out of place' in the pool world anymore :thumbup:

 

[ShootingArts]

a couple methods

Well, with my Willard Tip Machine I got 50 LePros, but I can't tell the good ones from the bad ones. Can you please share some of you arcane methods? If not, I will have to go ask Mike Sigel because he does the same damn thing. However, he cannot really tell if a LePro tip is good or bad until he starts playing with it. Then he will cut it off in a New York minute and put another one on.

Old school was to toss single layer tips in a glass of water and see what happens. Nowadays we can get a density meter in the range to test cue tips for between $50-$75 last I knew. I already have calipers laying everywhere and several precision scales. I measure the height of the tips to make sure I don't have an oddball in the bunch then I sort by weight. Out of fifty Elkmasters I got around ten that were distinctly light, tossed those. About three dozen were all grouped together. I have been happy with these plain or spicy.(dudded and lightly pressed) Three or four were distinctly heavy, curious about these and meant to try them on my own cue shafts, never got around to it.

I consider it pretty much a waste of time to test density of layered tips, maybe check out of curiosity but I have found too much inconsistency layer to layer and even either misstanned or rotten layers. There are three or four reasons that seem good to me to avoid layered tips however I certainly don't mind putting them on for people that like them and it seems there are more fans of layered tips than nonlayered these days.

Hu

 

[The Renfro]

I've always had trouble understanding how players can say they hardly touch their tip. Every single tip I've ever owned, and that a whole lot, will flatten if I don't shape it. If you play a decent amount of time, it will start to flatten. I don't care whether the tip is layered or not.

So can someone please explain how they can get by with only picking their tip? Do you hit only soft shots? Do you not like to draw your cue ball? Do tell, please.

I've used all kinds of tips over the years and it's basically the same for me. I average about 2-3 months per tip. That's one expense I'm not going to skimp on.

Simple answer is you likely play a more of a professional style of game using flat ball angles and staying as close to center as you can.... Very effective way to play but it will flatten a tip pretty quickly...

I use way tooo much english according to most but that's the style I grew up with... I don't mind being 2 tips out from center on most any shot....

I play a lot flatter now than 5 years ago but I still get out on the edges...

Being out on the edges tended to keep me from having to shape my tips much, if at all, once I got them going...

I am playing with phenolic now so NO more shaping required at all LOL.... Just a light sanding when they lose the matte finish look..

I was replacing leather tips 3 months or less before the change, simply because they all would lose bounce in that period and start to play different....

Man I miss the original moori mediums... No current leather layered or solid tip I have tried is close to those in retaining bounce for up to 6 months and longer....

 

[Baxter]

My tips generally last right around 6 months. Still haven't found a tip that I'm truly happy with. Tried the Moori med, Kamui Black soft, Kamui Black med, Tiger Everest, Tiger Onyx, Wizard soft, and I'm currently playing with the Kamui Brown med. Every one I've tried doesn't hold its shape as well as I'd like, tends to glaze over quickly, or just plain doesn't hit to my liking. So far this Kamui Brown has been the best. I'm probably going to try some of PoolDawg8's Milk Duds next. I'm also thinking about re-trying the Everest as well, since I'm now more of a fan of a harder tip than I was when I had one. Oh well, I know there has to be something out there that I'm really going to like.

 

[FranCrimi]

Simple answer is you likely play a more of a professional style of game using flat ball angles and staying as close to center as you can.... Very effective way to play but it will flatten a tip pretty quickly...

I use way tooo much english according to most but that's the style I grew up with... I don't mind being 2 tips out from center on most any shot....

I play a lot flatter now than 5 years ago but I still get out on the edges...

Being out on the edges tended to keep me from having to shape my tips much, if at all, once I got them going...

I am playing with phenolic now so NO more shaping required at all LOL.... Just a light sanding when they lose the matte finish look..

I was replacing leather tips 3 months or less before the change, simply because they all would lose bounce in that period and start to play different....

Man I miss the original moori mediums... No current leather layered or solid tip I have tried is close to those in retaining bounce for up to 6 months and longer....

Hmmmmm.... that's very interesting. I never thought of myself as that type of player but maybe I play more near the center than I thought. I do like to spin the ball, though.

I miss the original Moori mediums too.

 

[JoeyA]

FYI, Fast Larry says that is a myth. I used to think that way, and maybe still do, but I need the Willard shaper to keep defining my dime shape. I don't use more than 1/2 tip english most of the time, so my tip tends to need to be 'rounded' with the Willard.....cause I want the tip to be able to get english easier if I need it.

Your Kamui tip shaper seems awful expensive when sand paper could do the same thing.

The Kamui Gator Grip puts very small consistent size "dimples" into the leather tip. The sand paper whittles away at the leather in my opinion......

 

[steveinflorida]

I still use the glass of water technique for non layered tips. If it floats, out it goes. If it sinks, it's a keeper. I have had people come back for a replacement of their Moori or Sniper after only several weeks because they were constantly re-shaping or just sanding on their tip unnecessarily.
Ray Martin's tips last him a long time. You almost never see him do anything, but, maybe scuff the tip once in awhile.