Why would one choose a 314 over a Z? or vice versa....

I

Impact Blue

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I haven't shot with either, but after a long day with my stock Schon setup, I was forced in to those possibilites....

I have an OB-1 & sniper on a 3/8x10 butt, and it's a real confidence booster with my natural aim and technique. But I'm really seeking a crisper, firmer hit like my Schon, sans the deflection like Predator markets. Maybe I can find that with the Preds, but I was wondering...

...why do I hear so much of the 314's in use, and not so much of the Z series shafts? I know deflection is kind of a coined marketing pitch, but the results stand as the Z being on top in minimizing this. Am I wrong in the mass preference toward the 314? Is my experience unique?

(I have heard, though, from more seasoned oldschool players that if you harness this idea of deflection and swerve, you can actually execute some pretty amazing things and shots that aren't going to be available with a low-deflection shaft. Besides the point, I guess.)

Anyway, can I get some feedback from you guys? I've been told that a Schon and 314 is a deadly combo, and wait with baited breath, though the idea of a Z/Z2 is prehaps a better option.

(paralysis through analysis)

Thanks in advance!
 
I actually use a Schon with an Ob-1 shaft right now. The hit is a little soft, but its what I'm used to right now. I could put a 314 on the cue to have a better hit, but then again I wouldn't be used to how that shaft plays compared to the OB-1. So right now I would just stick with whatever shaft you use now; thats what I'm trying to do even though I know the 314 will make a much better hit.
 
Impact Blue said:
I haven't shot with either, but after a long day with my stock Schon setup, I was forced in to those possibilites....

I have an OB-1 & sniper on a 3/8x10 butt, and it's a real confidence booster with my natural aim and technique. But I'm really seeking a crisper, firmer hit like my Schon, sans the deflection like Predator markets. Maybe I can find that with the Preds, but I was wondering...

...why do I hear so much of the 314's in use, and not so much of the Z series shafts? I know deflection is kind of a coined marketing pitch, but the results stand as the Z being on top in minimizing this. Am I wrong in the mass preference toward the 314? Is my experience unique?

(I have heard, though, from more seasoned oldschool players that if you harness this idea of deflection and swerve, you can actually execute some pretty amazing things and shots that aren't going to be available with a low-deflection shaft. Besides the point, I guess.)

Anyway, can I get some feedback from you guys? I've been told that a Schon and 314 is a deadly combo, and wait with baited breath, though the idea of a Z/Z2 is prehaps a better option.

(paralysis through analysis)

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

There is only one reason personal preferance, everything else is some one elses opinion and nothing else. You will have to find out what works best for you!!! :groucho:

Take care
 
Snipers are great tips, but they'll kill the hit of anything. Especially the OB-1.

314 is a 12.75mm pro-taper shaft. Z is an 11.75mm conical. That's probably the reason.
 
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I really like my Z2, but as pointed out, the Z shaft is much thinner and has a stronger taper, a feature which is highly player dependent. I suggest trying a Z shaft first, because I know a lot of players that couldn't stand having such a skinny shaft.
 
i think the reason is that the z is too big of a jump from a normal shaft, whereas a 314 is more manageable. that and the taper.
 
Impact Blue said:
I have heard, though, from more seasoned oldschool players that if you harness this idea of deflection and swerve, you can actually execute some pretty amazing things and shots that aren't going to be available with a low-deflection shaft.
Click to expand...

That is a pile of BS... the cue ball doesn't know what shaft hit it... you can make any shot with any cue if you know what to do!

The Z shaft is thinner and therefore the shot is more pinpointed and there is less waist of energy so when a player moves to a smaller diameter shaft (regardless of deflection) he/she will get more action from the "same" stroke but the truth is that it's not the same stroke....
I know it may sound confusing, let's say I will take 50 needles and hold them together (like the TipPik) and try to gently stub you, and then I will try to stub you again with the same power but only use one needle, who will do more damage?

So the result is that players over stroke their shots and it takes time to adjust. But adjusting is not just for the stroke, it's also the aim and compensation for the deflection and the tapper and diameter and the total feel and hit.
A lot of players don't want to or can't put that time to adjust.

I've made that move from the 314 shaft (after 9 years with it) to the Z shaft. I decided to give it a fair chance and to play with it for 6 months before I will make a solid opinion which I like better and which I will continue to shoot with, I just wish i had more time to shoot in this 6 months period... so far I like it, I get more action with less effort but it requires me to be more focused as it is not forgiving as well as the 314... especially on the long shots.
 
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I have a schon with a 314 and I will be sticking with the 314, I have no played with a normal schon shaft and I have not tried the Z shaft but the 314 has worked great for me and I'm not about to change that now.

The reason why I never shot with a schon shaft is because my last cue had a 314 on it and that is what I'm use to so when I got a schon I had to have the 314 for it.
 
Great advice! Personally, I don't know why people use either one! I prefer the "good wood" feel of my custom cue's shafts...but that's just me! I have many friends, pro and amateur, that swear by Predator shafts!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

manwon said:
There is only one reason personal preferance, everything else is some one elses opinion and nothing else. You will have to find out what works best for you!!! :groucho:

Take care
Click to expand...
 
answers to low-squirt cue questions

FYI, I have lots of advice and information concerning low-squirt cues, here:


Regards,
Dave

Impact Blue said:
I haven't shot with either, but after a long day with my stock Schon setup, I was forced in to those possibilites....

I have an OB-1 & sniper on a 3/8x10 butt, and it's a real confidence booster with my natural aim and technique. But I'm really seeking a crisper, firmer hit like my Schon, sans the deflection like Predator markets. Maybe I can find that with the Preds, but I was wondering...

...why do I hear so much of the 314's in use, and not so much of the Z series shafts? I know deflection is kind of a coined marketing pitch, but the results stand as the Z being on top in minimizing this. Am I wrong in the mass preference toward the 314? Is my experience unique?

(I have heard, though, from more seasoned oldschool players that if you harness this idea of deflection and swerve, you can actually execute some pretty amazing things and shots that aren't going to be available with a low-deflection shaft. Besides the point, I guess.)

Anyway, can I get some feedback from you guys? I've been told that a Schon and 314 is a deadly combo, and wait with baited breath, though the idea of a Z/Z2 is prehaps a better option.

(paralysis through analysis)

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
 
the number one reason to choose a 314 over a Z shaft is the taper. That is the difference between the two shafts.

the Z shaft has a conical taper and a much smaller tip. It's particularly suited for snooker players or english pool players getting into american pool because the taper is the same.

the 314 has a standard pool/pro taper. which i personally prefer - there's absolutely no reason imo to use a tip that much smaller.

plus the Z shaft is much less ideal for a closed bridge because of the taper.

so basically to sum up you wouldn't make a decision on which shaft to choose over the deflection characteristics because they are both extremely low. the important difference between the two are the tapers.
 
I have shot with all of these shafts OB-1, 314 and Z, but only about 2 or 3 hits with the Z. I have however heard that the Z being that the shaft is so narrow (I beleive 11.25mm) that it makes it easier to hit the CB off center as apposed to a slightly fatter shaft like 12.75mm you have an eaier time finding center. And this is good when considering that you will be sooting with a shaft that naturaly gives you more spin. Any little bit beyond the center point of the CB will be bad for your game.

IMO

TJ
 
I've used both 314, 314-2, and Z2 shaft on my Joss.

I didn't notice much difference between the 314 and 314-2.

I started with 314, sold it and got a Z2 shaft. With the smaller shaft, it was harder for me to be accurate, and ended up getting a 314, and that helped my game (I'm not very consistent with my game for only playing a few years). I really only use the Z2 shaft when playing snooker now.
 
I have a problem with all that say that the Z is "too small" or "the taper is like that" and so on. I bet non of those who say that actually put a Z shaft on their playing cue and stuck with it for the needed adjusting time and I'm not talking a few shots or a week... hell, I tried it for a few shots and didn't like it but after about 3 months now I can tell you that for most amateurs players it'll only do good and will improve their game over time.

Oh... there is no problem using a closed bridge either unless your closed bridge is wrong...
 
I currently play with a 314 2 shaft on my Samsara cue. I really love the combo and feel the 314 2 really offers superior performance. However, let me point something out:

I hear people saying that one shaft puts more spin on the cueball or that it is easier to juice the ball up. Really, if you are a decent player, you are not depending on tons of spin to move the ball around. Rather, you are stroking nicer and hitting the cueball more accurately. A little bit of english with good speed is usually enough to do what you need. That being said, quantity of spin is really not a good way to evaluate the performance benefit of any shaft.

The benefit I get from the Predator is that I can use my normal amount of english, and simply aim easier and shoot straighter. I have a higher liklihood of pocketing balls when I use english. Inside english causes me no fear, even when I hit the ball firmly. For a long time I played with the Samsara shaft. I still prefer the feeling of the hit with a high quality solid wood shaft. However, my game jumped up a notch when I converted over to the 314 series 1. I initially used the LePro tip that came on it then converted to Moori medium. I also had the relatively low quality plastic joint ring from Predator replaced with phenolic Samsara joint ring, which made a big difference in quality of hit. I have since bought the 314 series 2, which comes with the nicer quality phenolic joint ring as well as a phenolic insert in the shaft to house the joint. I must say that the feel is another step removed from that of a traditional maple shaft, but the performance is awesome. The hit is VERY solid and the cueball control is even better. I now feel even better about aiming shots with english and spinning the ball with draw and follow really does seem easier.

My friend uses a Mike Webb cue with a Predator Z2 shaft. She also uses a Moori Medium. This is an amazing combo. I really feel like there are things I can do with the cueball with this setup that I simply can't do with even my 314 2 shaft. Maybe this isn't the case, but if it is too hard, who cares if in *theory* it is possible. I can spin the ball like CRAZY with extreme confidence. The reason I don't play with the Z 2 shaft is that I am 6'2" and have long fingers, and prefer the feel of a regular shaft. My firend is a 5' tall girl with tiny fingers and the slim taper on the Z is a great fit for her hands.

I would say that if you simply want something to give you the maximum ability to juice up the cue ball and confidently fire balls in with lots of english, get the Z2. If you want something that gives a little more of a traditional feel with most of the performance of the Z, get the 314 2.

Hope this helps,

KMRUNOUT
 
I have a problem with all that say that the Z is "too small" or "the taper is like that" and so on. I bet non of those who say that actually put a Z shaft on their playing cue and stuck with it for the needed adjusting time and I'm not talking a few shots or a week... hell, I tried it for a few shots and didn't like it but after about 3 months now I can tell you that for most amateurs players it'll only do good and will improve their game over time.

Oh... there is no problem using a closed bridge either unless your closed bridge is wrong...
Click to expand...

surely you would agree that although a closed bridge is possible with a Z shaft, the taper isn't ideal for it? the width isn't consistent along the bridge area of the shaft.

as for the first part of your post, can you suggest a reason why it'd be better for an amateur to go for a Z shaft over a 314 or an OB-1?
 
dr_dave said:
FYI, I have lots of advice and information concerning low-squirt cues, here:


Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...

Your videos are amazing. Subscribed for awhle now....

Thanks for all the replies guys!

edit: Oh, btw, I had my OB-1 conically tapered to 12.25 on my wrapless and it plays pretty awesome. Slightly dead feel, but if my CB is frozen on a rail to shoot long, or I have to just fire on a thin cut, my results are infinately better than that of my Schon shaft.

It's probably more mental and cueing mechanics over anything, but the confidence is still substancial. I just see the Preadators offering the same thing, with the "donk" sound/feel that I love.

(although, if I could afford a Judd JT1, I could care less about deflection...weird, huh? The hit is incredible.)
 
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314^2 for fast cloth (Simonis 860 etc)
Z2 for super slow cloth (Gorina and the like)

Z2 needs a really good consistent stroke, only a handful of pros use it.
 
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