Will a real cue maker step forward?

whitewolf

whitewolf

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
For years now I have looked for a forward balanced cue - 21.3 inches from the butt.

Scruggs can't do it, Phillipi failed miserably on my special request. Ted Harris didn't respond to my email. Blackheart doesn't do this, nor does anyone else as I have hinted on the forums a few times. Is there a reputable cue maker who can do this?

If I can't find a cue maker, then I have reconciled myself to do the following:

Buy a cue with a skinny butt and Predator shafts. Freaking put metal tape near the joint until my expectations are met :mad: I don't care anymore. If it works maybe I can get someone to wrap it for me :D . (Purdman, you there?) Who wants to be a Super Hero? - also a silly show on Sci-Fi.

So if any of you guys have any better suggestions for the metal tape, please let me know.

I am off to Lowes now.

Thanks, WW
 
whitewolf said:
For years now I have looked for a forward balanced cue - 21.3 inches from the butt.

Scruggs can't do it, Phillipi failed miserably on my special request. Ted Harris didn't respond to my email. Blackheart doesn't do this, nor does anyone else as I have hinted on the forums a few times. Is there a reputable cue maker who can do this?

If I can't find a cue maker, then I have reconciled myself to do the following:

Buy a cue with a skinny butt and Predator shafts. Freaking put metal tape near the joint until my expectations are met :mad: I don't care anymore. If it works maybe I can get someone to wrap it for me :D . (Purdman, you there?) Who wants to be a Super Hero? - also a silly show on Sci-Fi.

So if any of you guys have any better suggestions for the metal tape, please let me know.

I am off to Lowes now.

Thanks, WW
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I wish you luck, but I don't believe it will happen (21.3" blance point that is). First thing you have going against you are the Predator shafts. They weigh less than a conventional (3.2 ounce if I recall).
 
I'm not a "real" cuemaker...but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn last night.:D
No seriously, I have some fantastic news for you....I just saved a lot of money on my car insurance.:D

Simply have the cuemaker of your choice install the weight bolt deep into the joint end of the butt...then install a heavier type joint pin like a brass Radial or 3/8-10.;)
 
whitewolf said:
For years now I have looked for a forward balanced cue - 21.3 inches from the butt.

. . . failed miserably on my special request. Ted Harris didn't respond to my email.
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Out of curiosity, what woods did you use?

It would seem that dense, old growth shaft wood, very dense forearm wood, slightly less dense point wood, even less dense handle wood, and relatively low density wood in the butt sleeve, with a low density butt cap all would combine to make a cue with a pretty far forward balance. It could be moved farther forward still but using a heavy metal pin and joint collar and maybe even a heavy shaft insert.

Of course, choosing wood based primarily on density might make for an ugly cue, which cue makers are often understandably reluctant to make.
 
I feel your pain...as I keep looking for a similar style of cue. My advice, go buy a Schon with an ebony forearm and take out the weight bolt entirely and get a Universal Smart Shaft. That will make it VERY forward heavy and achieve your goal. It won't be cheap, but I guarantee you it will be what you want.
 
i_maycotte said:
I feel your pain...as I keep looking for a similar style of cue. My advice, go buy a Schon with an ebony forearm and take out the weight bolt entirely and get a Universal Smart Shaft. That will make it VERY forward heavy and achieve your goal. It won't be cheap, but I guarantee you it will be what you want.
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You'll "guarantee" it to have a 21.3" balance point?
 
it is possible

Using a custom joint pin made out of heavier stock cut down to a smaller diameter like 3/8 X 10 into the shaft or possibly 5/16 x 18 made out of 1/2 inch stainless rod and a custom brass insert [Extra Long] in the shaft as was mentioned earlier. I made my cue balance 20 inches from the butt end by just cutting my own extra long pin out of solid SS rod, I gained an ounce or so without much difficulty. But i was only looking for the 20 inch balance, and I do not like SS collars on my joint, I like wood to wood and phenolic. You will have to pay for whoevers time you want to achieve your exact balance point but anything is possible, maybe not conventional though. An interesting challenge though!
I am impressed with the way Dennis Diekman balances cues, maybe he would be able to help?
 
That's some serious forward balance, but should be possible. I have one that balances out around 20in (if you count the bumper, around 21), but that's on a 60in cue/30in butt that did'nt balance out as good as I hoped, without having to use a weight bolt.

I'm no expert in the area of balance, but the best I know would be to use a heavier wood for the forearm, and a lighter one for the handle. You could thin the butt sleeve, cored with maple and that may help also. That is if You want the wood in the sleeve to match the forearm. another possible thing If steel rod is used at the handle joint, altough it may look sorta funny, that can be moved forward some to help aid you. The 60in I have, has a shorter then conventional forearm which automatically puts the handle joint alittle more toward the front, and seems to increase the forward balance.

You can always go with more weight in the joint as mentioned, just not sure how I feel about having a cavity filled that far forward in the cue, as I have not experiemented with that, and any changes that may come in effect to the feel of the hit yet.

The pin in my 60 is a modified 5/16, so a bigger pin may would bring It slightly forward, but not sure if It would give the full amount extra needed.

If It were me, and I was having a cue built, I would try to get the forward balance using mostly wood choices If possible, and then go from there to see what has to be done for the rest. My hopes would be to get most of it from the wood choices alone, but that might not always work out.

Like I mentioned balance is not a strong suit of mine yet, so these are just ideas to get your own from in hopes to help out, so Please take them with a grain of salt. I don't consider Myself a expert in this area yet, and I did'nt even sleep in a holiday inn last night:D , so again please just take it for what it's worth, and nothing more. Good Luck, Greg C
 
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whitewolf said:
For years now I have looked for a forward balanced cue - 21.3 inches from the butt.

Scruggs can't do it, Phillipi failed miserably on my special request. Ted Harris didn't respond to my email. Blackheart doesn't do this, nor does anyone else as I have hinted on the forums a few times. Is there a reputable cue maker who can do this?

If I can't find a cue maker, then I have reconciled myself to do the following:

Buy a cue with a skinny butt and Predator shafts. Freaking put metal tape near the joint until my expectations are met :mad: I don't care anymore. If it works maybe I can get someone to wrap it for me :D . (Purdman, you there?) Who wants to be a Super Hero? - also a silly show on Sci-Fi.

So if any of you guys have any better suggestions for the metal tape, please let me know.

I am off to Lowes now.

Thanks, WW
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If you've not been able to have this cue made in the past just what makes you think that this balance point is what you want? Did you just arbitrarilly come up with this figuire so as to be able to claim there are no custom cue makers worth having since they can't or don't want to build this cue? You are asking for the balance point to be exactly just 7.7" behind the shaft. I don't think it would be hard to build at all although I believe it would be a horrible playing cue as the shaft would be so stiff weighing maybe 5.5 ounce, a 6 or 7 inch 3/8x10 pin, a steel joint and the butt made of big leaf maple.

In reality it wouldn't be that hard to build but who needs the agravation and who would want to put their name on it.

Dick
 
buget?

what is your buget for a cue with this special request and what type of cue are you looking for traditional with or without veneers or floating point?
 
whitewolf said:
For years now I have looked for a forward balanced cue - 21.3 inches from the butt.

Scruggs can't do it, Phillipi failed miserably on my special request. Ted Harris didn't respond to my email. Blackheart doesn't do this, nor does anyone else as I have hinted on the forums a few times. Is there a reputable cue maker who can do this?

If I can't find a cue maker, then I have reconciled myself to do the following:

Buy a cue with a skinny butt and Predator shafts. Freaking put metal tape near the joint until my expectations are met :mad: I don't care anymore. If it works maybe I can get someone to wrap it for me :D . (Purdman, you there?) Who wants to be a Super Hero? - also a silly show on Sci-Fi.

So if any of you guys have any better suggestions for the metal tape, please let me know.

I am off to Lowes now.

Thanks, WW
Click to expand...

I built one like that a few years ago. Hit so bad that I band sawed it and sent the guy his money back. That much mass in front of the wrap just kills all of the cues feel.
 
Murray Tucker said:
I built one like that a few years ago. Hit so bad that I band sawed it and sent the guy his money back. That much mass in front of the wrap just kills all of the cues feel.
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Murray, thats some funny stuff...............:D
 
Murray Tucker said:
I built one like that a few years ago. Hit so bad that I band sawed it and sent the guy his money back. That much mass in front of the wrap just kills all of the cues feel.
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I like alittle forward balance anyway, but My experience with the mentioned cue was'nt a bad hit, infact the hit is really good & solid, especially on shots within 7ft range. It was more movement of the the back of the cue on long shots then anything, from loss of feel back there that forces you to move your back hand farther back on the cue to make some shots clean, and that effected stroke being It is somewhat uncomfortable. It also was a learned cue, and not one you just pick up and learn instantly, so there could be feel issue there also I suppose, but not bad after some time with it. Still it does'nt feel quite right on the big tables that it was originally intended for. Plays great on 7's & 8's though, where the range is alittle better, but who wants a longer cue for those. It runs about ten inch below the joint though, and can't imagine any less then that.
That's one thing I rarely hear mentioned where balance is concerned, is the sway from the back of the cue, as if the cintrifical motion Is somewhat changed or something. It's not only the balance up and down, but side to side as well. Maybe someone else is better with the physics of this, as I don't really know how to put In better words, but It does seem to have an effect in that area from what I can tell. I would think having too much weight in the back would cause this effect, but seems not enough or too much forward does also. To Me the cue should do the work, so I don't see it as moving the back hand, as much as having to force the shot or stiff/push stroke it to keep this action under control.

IMO for My style, a properly balanced cue should find It's own way to the cueball on a straight path, so you can let your stroke out in the most comfortable spot of the handle with a loose wrist when you need to, and that's normally what I would try to achieve, but this cue was just something I tried, and that's where the balance fell naturally without a weight bolt in It. the weight bolt helps bring the balance back some, but makes the cue heavier then I like. Seems like everything is a give and take:rolleyes: :) . Greg C
 
I have to agree with Murray and Dick. Most cue makers will not make something that is too far out of the ordinary. Something off the wall like that only gets remembered as "whacko" and people don't even consider that it was asked for... they just think of that cue maker as a nutso when they see it.

Also (nothing personal), many times someone wants something like that, they want perfect results. The results are not something the cue maker can control if he built exactly what the customer asked for. It can come out playing horrible, and that is what the customer sees instead of the fact that he got exactly what he asked for. Then the cue maker gets to try to "fix" it... usually for nothing or very little, in which case, Murray made the perfect move... throw it away and give the money back. Win Win.

The only better move is not to try in the first place. It's one of those jobs where the odds are heavily in favor of the end result not being worth the money the cue maker got for the work, much less the headache that follows.

Just trying to make you understand why you aren't getting much response from cue makers on it.


JWP
 
I can't blame any cue maker for NOT building that cue. Most of us have our standards, and build cues that play as we wish. Building a cue as you want WOULD be out of the norm for most of us. Any seasoned cue maker could build the cue, however it's the cue makers reputation on the line, not the owners.
blud
 
Glad to see you posting

Blud,

Sure glad to see you back posting, hopefully we will see more of you.

As you mentioned, reputation is on the line here and it is a lot harder to gain than it is to lose. Odds are that if you build exactly what the guy wants he won't be happy with it. Next he will E-Bay it or something without mentioning the odd ball balance point. It'll pass from hand to hand with everybody remembering the name on that "awful" cue they tried one day.

Hu

blud said:
I can't blame any cue maker for NOT building that cue. Most of us have our standards, and build cues that play as we wish. Building a cue as you want WOULD be out of the norm for most of us. Any seasoned cue maker could build the cue, however it's the cue makers reputation on the line, not the owners.
blud
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the cue can be made and made so it plays well. the trick is if the buyer want's to pay the $ involved in having a maker spend the time to experiment and figure out exactly where the weight is placed to keep the cue playing as the maker want's it to. you got to pay to play. ;)
 
skins said:
the cue can be made and made so it plays well. the trick is if the buyer want's to pay the $ involved in having a maker spend the time to experiment and figure out exactly where the weight is placed to keep the cue playing as the maker want's it to. you got to pay to play. ;)
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Looks like you have your cuemaker. Now get up the cash! Let us know how you like it.
 
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