Willies game?

Gerry

Gerry

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've heard all the stories about Mr. Mosconi, good and bad, but I want to know what he was like to watch in person? I never hear anything about where/how he practiced, who he learned from, did he teach any other world beaters? Basically, I'd like to know how he played?....I hear fast, fearless, with a pin point cueball.....I wish I had some video....Gerry
 
Here are some posts I made on this subject on RSB:

I think watching Willie play in exhibitions is one of the reasons I fell in love with pool. When you watch someone perform at that level, up close, at something you know to be soooo difficult, it leaves an indelible impression on your psyche.

He'd come in in a coat and tie, with a case of balls and a luggage style cue case. To warm up, he'd rack the fifteen, separate the head ball and set up a break shot to the left of the rack. The break shots he seemed to prefer were always a little steeper than I would have thought comfortable, but they never seemed to slow him up. He'd run off two racks and then be done, ready to play his opponent 150 points of 14.1. Depending on who he was playing, he'd often kick into the back of the stack and play the head ball two rails into the side, just to give his opponent a running start.

He'd always run at least a hundred and I saw him go 150 and out twice. Then he'd shoot some trick shots, including some pretty nifty masse shots and then hang around and talk with the old-timers and sign autographs. It's the only one I have ever asked for in my life.

Over the course of several years, I saw Mosconi play many exhibition matches in the late 60's/early 70's. To this day, I have never seen anyone in such total control of the table, and that includes the players I saw at the 2000 US Open 14.1 event in NY.

He played so quickly and gracefully it was hard to appreciate the precision he was achieving. During some racks that were barely spread apart, he would walk around the table picking the balls off until, almost by magic, all 14 were gone. During some racks, he'd nudge one particular object ball with the cue ball one, two, and even three times, until he had it just were he wanted it for a break ball. He wouldn't even break stride for shots I think most players would need to take an extra moment on, like thin cuts down the table. For him, they were all hangers, and in all the times I saw play, he never failed to run *at least* a hundred balls. He was of course, retired then. I can't even imagine at what level he must have played at in his prime, when he won his titles against fields comprised of straight pool specialists.

The extraordinary action Mosconi got on the cue ball, particularly when going through the pack, was one of his trademarks. It was just so ridiculous to watch the cue ball keep pushing through the stack, as if it had a tiny engine inside it. In fact, I know of one very young and impressionable fan who was so fascinated by the way Mosconi's cue ball behaved that after one of Mosconi's exhibitions, he sidled up to the table and appropriated Mosconi's cue ball (he always brought his own set of balls for his exhibitions) for further study and experimentation. That much older and wiser fan is, to this day, guilt ridden about that incident from his callow youth, but does display the cue ball on his study's "pool shelf."

Lou Figueroa
 
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My only time

I saw Willie Mosconi in person was late '68 or early '69,
when I won a Pool tournament in San Diego (while in the
Navy) at the Billiard Tavern, which used to be at 12th
and Broadway. It was a Pool room back then, that would
be considered elegant in this day and age. 33 tables, closed
circuit TV, raised bar area with food and drink. Big Indoor
fountain in the bar and eating area. 4 of the tables were in
private rooms for the discretionary players. They even had
a TV on the street so you could see what was going on inside.
The $10,000 exhibition table was in an enclosed area with small stadium
seating and wrought iron railings. A $3,500 chandelier hung above
the table.
Willie has always been one of idols, so you can imagine how
excited and nervous I was to have the honor of playing him
a 14.1 game to 150. Besides being a handsome man, he was
the PRO personnified. He was a gentleman, and I just hoped
and hoped some of his knowledge would rub into me by me just
being close to him. What he did with the cue ball and how he
played his shots looked so effortless. His cue ball control was
simply amazing. I think one time during the exhibition game he
missed (by just a little) where he wanted the cue ball. The next
shot it was right back in line. He made a joke of it with the
railbirds. He did all this while wearing a suit, coat and all.
Needless to say, I was highly impressed, and this became my
vision of what Pro Pool was about.
Oh, and Willie did win the game, just barely .... lol

BTW, http://www.pooltees.com
has an 'Air' Mosconi shirts, sweatshirts for sale if you are a fan of him.
No, I have no affiliation, just a Willie fan.
 
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Thanks for the stories guys!......Growing up in Pa, i'd always hear the stories from my Uncle Clyde about the old crew like Mosconi, Caras, Crane, Balsis, Lassiter when he went to watch them play at The Boulivard in Philly.

So, how fast IS fast, when talking about how Willie played? I play quickly, and when I slow down my game suffers. I just don't want to play too fast and make mistakes Then again, there's Lou Butera!:).....Gerry
 
I read that mosconi was trained by ralph greenleaf. At a tender age he was traveling with greenleaf across the country playing pool.:cool:
 
I saw Mosconi on TV in the ABC matches. How did he play? Even at the age he was then it was kinda like watching Fred Astaire dance smoothly about the table shooting at about Keiths speed. He always seemed to take his time when he first approached the table to chalk up and study the layout, then it became the Mosconi ballet and he always seemed to have a chalk right at hand when he needed it while shooting.

Terry
 
Not so much fast, as really smooth and effortless, from one shot to the next: walk up to it like Astaire, gracefully get down, pump once and stroke it in. Maybe four seconds to shoot, but it didn't appear rushed at all.

Lou Figueroa


Gerry said:
Thanks for the stories guys!......Growing up in Pa, i'd always hear the stories from my Uncle Clyde about the old crew like Mosconi, Caras, Crane, Balsis, Lassiter when he went to watch them play at The Boulivard in Philly.

So, how fast IS fast, when talking about how Willie played? I play quickly, and when I slow down my game suffers. I just don't want to play too fast and make mistakes Then again, there's Lou Butera!:).....Gerry
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I saw Willie play just once, and it was in a pro-am, so it almost doesn't count. It was in the mid 1970's, but he still played extremely well. Other than that, I only saw him against Minnesota Fats and against Balukas on Wide World of Sports, also in the mid 1970's.

Irving Crane, whom I knew well, called Mosconi the best position player he had ever seen. Irving considered Willie a much stronger player on a 4 1/2 x 9 than on a 5 x 10, even though Willie was, indisputably, superb on both. Finally, Irving used to say that Willie was more likely to produce a one-inning win going to 150 than Greenleaf but that Greenleaf was more likely than Willie to produce a win in two innings or less. He considered them to be about even. Irving told me he didn't like it when Mosconi noted in an interview in the late 1950's that "Crane wouldn't shoot any shot his grandmother couldn't make."

Like me, Mosconi was in attendance for Sigel's legendary 150 & out against Zuglan at the 1992 US Open 14.1 event in NYC. He sat next to none other than Jimmy Caras, and I remember thinking that I probably couldn't run three balls if those guys were watching me. Sadly, Willie died just months later.
 
I wish I had some video....Gerry
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You can watch him and many other of the legendary players on the ESPN classic channel. They come on around 10 in the morning I think. I Tivo them so I'm not sure the exact time. Of course they aren't the same because they are all in their 60's and 70's but they are still fun too watch. They are playing 7 ball, 9 ball and 8 ball not 14.1 so it is a little different than what they normally play but they are still great. Every once in a while you'll catch one on ESPN classic in black and white from when they were in their prime but not too often.
 
The greatest

I remember watching him play in NY and he would walk around the table and be talking to everyone while making all these wonderfull shots.The cue stick in his hands wwere more like a bow in a concert violinist hands.the stroke was just that pure.The other thing was it looked like every shot was only a few inches away.Thatas how good his position play was.I dont know about you guys but he was the best that ive ever seen.
 
Gerry said:
I've heard all the stories about Mr. Mosconi, good and bad, but I want to know what he was like to watch in person? I never hear anything about where/how he practiced, who he learned from, did he teach any other world beaters? Basically, I'd like to know how he played?....I hear fast, fearless, with a pin point cueball.....I wish I had some video....Gerry
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The fearless part is subject for discussion. I heard he turned many would be opponents away in exhibition because he didnt want to get beat {several of the would be opponents are still alive to tell the story}. I heard he also ducked James Evans for decades playing 14.1.
 
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sjm said:
Irving told me he didn't like it when Mosconi noted in an interview in the late 1950's that "Crane wouldn't shoot any shot his grandmother couldn't make."
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Why wouldn't he like that comment? LOL!

-Roger
 
Remember, people came to the exhibitions to see Willie play... not to see some local guy play.
 
Watching the Top 10 Heavyweights on ESPN Classic this past weekend I was reminded of the great debate. Was the best of all time Ali or Louis. If you talk to anybody over 65 it's definately Louis. If they're 55 or under it's definately Ali. We'll never know for sure.

Mosconi discussions are like that. All I know is that I saw him play in person twice. Once against Lassiter and another time against Wanderone. Lassiter was a ligitimate top 3 player, Wanderone was a joke. Mosconi dispatched them both with ease playing 14.1 to 150. I don't remember the scores but I do remember the grace and precision and supremely confident effortless way Mosconi moved the balls around the table. It was like the balls couldn't wait to jump into the pockets. And the way he'd massage his position to just the right angle and distance using mostly center ball striking. He was all business at the table and it was something to see.

There have been quite a few good and some gret players since Mosconi and there are a few out there today. But for my money Mossconi was one of a kind; a kind probably never to be seen again.
 
Gerry said:
....I wish I had some video....Gerry
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You know there is a bit of video of him around. other than the stuff that's on tv all the time with Crane, Balsis, Moore, etc, there is also a match from the 60's against Caras playing a game of 14.1 to 125. Unfortunately, Caras was at the table a lot more than Mosconi.
 
Willie

I was at Bill & Billies and saw an older man playing with a Bushka across the room. I walked over to look at his cue and we had a discussion about pool. He told me his dad took him to George's shop to buy a cue and he purchased one for his son also. He also told me a story about meeting Willie. He was a friend of his fathers and came over to his house one evening. The kid loved to play pool and had his high run posted in a frame on the wall. I believe it was 31 balls in 14.1. They played that evening and everytime Willie got to 31 he would miss. That's the kind of guy he was.
Purdman:cool:
 
pawnmon said:
All I know is that I saw him play in person twice. Once against Lassiter and another time against Wanderone. Lassiter was a ligitimate top 3 player, Wanderone was a joke. Mosconi dispatched them both with ease playing 14.1 to 150. .
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Pawnmon,
Now you realize that Mosconi matched up with Lassiter AFTER Mosconi's significant stroke in the early 50's. They matched up at least 7 times in straight pool matches, with Mosconi winning each time despite being nowhere near his former skill level. Lassiter is reported (by the degenerate pool gamblers who hung out with Mosconi during his time living in KC - NOT the most reliable guys in the world admittedly) to have said the reason that he specialized in 9-ball was, "Mosconi don't play 9-ball." I seem to remember Lassiter making some comment like this, but I was young at the time, and could just be imagining it, since it was a common story told to me.

In regards to the well-known enmity between Irving Crane and Mosconi: Mosconi obviously considered Irving to be the second best player during their heyday (his biography makes this clear) - but definitely a step below Mosconi. The reasons for the dislike are detailed in the biography.

Mosconi always regretted never getting to match up with Greenleaf when they were both at their peak, as he considered Greenleaf his only equal. They matched up in a long, multi-city exhibition tour when Willie was just a newbie (Greenleaf won). A later exhibition tour was won by Willie easily (at his peak while Greenleaf was well past his prime, and struggling with the bottle). Mosconi did not actually take lessons from Ralph, but he credits much of his eventual mastery to the influence and example of Greenleaf.

Mosconi said that the best game he ever played was in a round robin tournament (I can look up the opponent if someone just has to know) where he ran 125 and out, never being over 8 inches from his object ball, and never getting out of line even once. I'd be overjoyed if I ever had a single rack like that.
 
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