"Winner breaks" rule hurts the game

brechbt said:
I've recently watched quite a few matches posted by Billiard Club on Youtube. Most of the matches featured top 20 players who were fairly evenly matched. It seemed to me that having the winner break was often a HUGE factor in the outcome of the match. All of these players are capable of stringing racks together, so one bad roll or mistake early in the match frequently had the result of one player sitting in his chair until he was basically out of the match with little hope of catching up. Pool is the only sport I can think of where it is literally possible for someone to lose a match without ever getting to play.

This rule seems to rob many matches of a true spirit of competition. I also think that it can make matches uninteresting, especially to casual watchers. I'm wondering why this rule exists and how tournament organizers justify it instead of an alternating break format. What say you all?
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you think so? how about the match where orcullo was up 14-2(or something like that) on the kid from tai pei and the kid responds with a 13 pack to beat him? i agree with the guy who says if you havent missed,fouled,or broke dry you should stay at the table. jmo
 
???

Only ERO's said:
Obviously you are a B leaguer at best then. That is the whole reason for playing winner break. If you miss or make a mistake, you may NEVER come back to the table. That is what good play is all about. Mistakes are much larger when there is a high quality of play. The goal is to minimize those mistakes and more often you will come out on top.

I get sick of the loser or alternate break format that has plagued amateur pool forever. It gets old. The weak level of players have no idea what it is like to miss a ball because they figure at most, they can lose 1 game in loser breaks or 2 games in alternate before they get back to the table. This is not what pool is about.

Winner breaks is the only way to play and that emphasizes the best/top quality pool there. You will never have an idea of when you will come back to the table in this format when you lose your turn. That is what pool is all about.

Someday, if your game develops, you may understand this concept
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Since you have inexplicably decided to demean me personally in response to a fairly innocent observation on tournament rules I suppose I must reply in kind.

Obviously you are a good pool player who is not really good at anything else. Your sense of self-worth stems from your ability to push little balls into holes with a stick better than other people, and you enjoy feeling superior to them for this reason.

Someday, if your maturity and self-esteem develop, you may understand this concept and select a more positive manner of interacting with us lesser beings.


There, happy now?
 
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There are advantages and dis advantages to playing either way. The person with the great break should never be penalized. Don't forget, in order to string racks together you have to break and also get a good look at the object ball.

The break is also huge in alternate break. If you fail to make balls on your break, you're at a big disadvantage.

As long as I know the rules beforehand, I don't care how we play.
 
That is FUKCING GREAT!!!!

brechbt said:
Since you have inexplicably decided to demean me personally in response to a fairly innocent observation on tournament rules I suppose I must reply in kind.

Obviously you are a good pool player who is not really good at anything else. Your sense of self-worth stems from your ability to push little balls into holes with a stick better than other people, and you enjoy feeling superior to them for this reason.

Someday, if your maturity and self-esteem develop, you may understand this concept and select a more positive manner of interacting with us lesser beings.


There, happy now?
Click to expand...
 
brechbt said:
Since you have inexplicably decided to demean me personally in response to a fairly innocent observation on tournament rules I suppose I must reply in kind.

Obviously you are a good pool player who is not really good at anything else. Your sense of self-worth stems from your ability to push little balls into holes with a stick better than other people, and you enjoy feeling superior to them for this reason.

Someday, if your maturity and self-esteem develop, you may understand this concept and select a more positive manner of interacting with us lesser beings.


There, happy now?
Click to expand...

Tap, tap, tap!!
 
What's good and fair for the player isn't necessarily good for entertainment value.

Winner breaks is better for spectators and can lead to some legendary outs and comebacks. Alternate breaks is more fair for the guys at the table.

I can see the thinking behind "if you haven't missed or fouled, you should keep at the table". But what happened in one game shouldn't have any impact on an entirely different game (even if it's part of the same set/tournament). You could also say (of the guy in his chair) "if you haven't missed or fouled, you shouldn't lose the match"

We've gotten so used to talking about 9 and 10 ball in terms of 'sets' instead individual games, that we even talk about 'running out the set' and 'staying at the table without a miss' as if games were invidual balls.

This has come about because the popular rotation games have enough luck that you NEED to play a set... and sometimes a really lengthy one... just to be sure that a better player isn't unfairly washed out of the set/tournament.

We could do races to 100+ at the highest levels of 9b to overcome any concerns about luck... or we can do shorter races and give everyone an equal number of chances... and whoever makes the best of those chances wins.
 
Here is some spin for you folks, my friend and i play One Pocket about 4-5 days a week. we play for nothing more then the privilege of the Winner Braking. I think the winner should break.
fragged.gif
More fun than play for money to us.
fragged.gif
 
I never played in an alternate break tourny until I moved to Texas. I hate hate alternate break. It's redonkulous!
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
Here is some spin for you folks, my friend and i play One Pocket about 4-5 days a week. we play for nothing more then the privilege of the Winner Braking. I think the winner should break.
fragged.gif
More fun than play for money to us.
fragged.gif
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Winner breaks in 1-pocket? :eek: :nono:
 
Winner break is the way to go unless the race is super short IMO.

That said, I'd rather play alternating break rack-your-own than winner break rack-for-each-other.
 
I think LOSER BREAKS is the best approach.

As far as a player or spectator, it always keeps the matches closer, and face it closer matches are more exciting.

JMO

Ken
 
Great point. Loser breaks would be better for the viewer and that is all we should be caring about if we want to see mor pool on tv.
 
A good local player told me the story of the greatest set he's ever witnessed...

Cliff Joyner was playing Rudolpho Luat in the U.S. Open when it was races to 13. It wasn't even a finals match or anything. It was just a standard match. Luat wins the lag and the first break. Then, he proceeds to break and run the first 12 before he scratched on the last break. Cliff has been sitting in his chair for about an hour, and he slowly gets up and looks at the table. Cliff then proceeds to run out then break and run the next 11 in a row. Now, it's hill to hill. Cliff breaks, and the cue ball flies off the table. Luat runs out for the win.

The moral of the story...a set is never over, regardless of winner breaks, alternate breaks, or loser breaks. You just have to have the heart, and always look for the light at the end of tunnel.
 
Now that pool is heading more towards 10ball, none of these arguments make sense to me. I mean, no one is stringing 13 packs together in 10ball, and usually both players are getting to the table with equal opportunity. So whats the problem?
 
Cameron Smith said:
If both players are capable of stringing racks together, then why is it unfair if one runs 4-7 racks and the other player has to catch up? In theory he should be able to hit him with the same package. Furthermore the lag is based on skill. Just because no one practices the lag doesn't mean it is lucky.

In the World Pool Masters Alex Pagualyan ran six racks against Rodney Morris. Rodney responded by running three racks twice in consecutive innings. He won 8-7.

By the way could someone direct me to a video of a match where someone runs out the entire set (excluding 14.1 matches)? My point is that it is such a rarity I don't know why anyone is concerned about it. Has anyone ever run out all 11 racks in the US Open before?

Part of what makes pool so great is that you can hold the table for as long as you are able. Complaining about it is like grumbling about football being rough.
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I was fortunate enough to capture Jason Kirkwood running our from the flip. Nine ball, race to 7 on a Diamond 7 foot with deeeeep shelf pockets.

I was using a digital still camera in video setting and using the butt end of a house cue to balance the camera.

Game 1
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8436143797640096082

Game 2
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=822905868688962881

Game 3
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3340441686657678484

Game 4
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6475305355927938071

Game 5
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5671682720527040787

Game 6
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1134678405617346515

Game 7
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6997576800657062493

Now for the bad news. the memory card filled before the 7th rack was completed, but Jason did make the cross corner bank on the 5 ball and finished the run.


Steve
 
..........
JTfromATL said:
A good local player told me the story of the greatest set he's ever witnessed...

Cliff Joyner was playing Rudolpho Luat in the U.S. Open when it was races to 13. It wasn't even a finals match or anything. It was just a standard match. Luat wins the lag and the first break. Then, he proceeds to break and run the first 12 before he scratched on the last break. Cliff has been sitting in his chair for about an hour, and he slowly gets up and looks at the table. Cliff then proceeds to run out then break and run the next 11 in a row. Now, it's hill to hill. Cliff breaks, and the cue ball flies off the table. Luat runs out for the win.

The moral of the story...a set is never over, regardless of winner breaks, alternate breaks, or loser breaks. You just have to have the heart, and always look for the light at the end of tunnel.
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