Wiseman's cue
- Thread starter NJ_Qball
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I believe he plays with a Schon Limited.
Yea, that's the one where Johnny pulled that lame shark move on Wiseman while Johnny was down 6 to 3, then Johnny flukes a ball in and goes on to get back to hill-hill.
Wiseman went on to win the final game after a nice safety, so all is right with the world......
Neither would shake hands after the match.
Wiseman was preparing to shoot the 6 ball while he was on the hill and just as he was about to hit the shot, Johnny jumped up and started waving his hands and telling him to stop. The balls were about 1/2 inch apart and Wiseman was clearly shooting away on an angle to assure that he wouldn't double hit the cue ball.
After the confusion, Wiseman missed the ball and Johnny went on to fluke the 6 in and run out the rest of the rack.
It was a very uncharacteristic move, in my opinion. It is something that you would expect from some of the professional players, (I don't think that I need to name any names), but you would usually not expect to see this type of behavior from Johnny.
Sharking or not, you can clearly see that Johnny was very remorseful about this situation (FTR, I am not condoning this move). He apologized after going back and taking his seat and then later when the rack was over you can hear him apologizing again, to which RW would have none of.
RW missed the shot. I seriously doubt that what Johnny did had all that much to do with it. Wiseman's been into enough action that his skin should be PLENTY thick enough to get past that move, if it was indeed a move at all.
C'mon, don't a lot of us look for an excuse when we miss a shot we feel we should have made?
Just my opinion. I'm entitled to one as much as anyone else is. And since an opinion CANNOT be right or wrong (as it is just an opinion) please no flaming my post or trying to raise an argument over it
Maniac
Sharking or not, you can clearly see that Johnny was very remorseful about this situation (FTR, I am not condoning this move). He apologized after going back and taking his seat and then later when the rack was over you can hear him apologizing again, to which RW would have none of.
RW missed the shot. I seriously doubt that what Johnny did had all that much to do with it. Wiseman's been into enough action that his skin should be PLENTY thick enough to get past that move, if it was indeed a move at all.
C'mon, don't a lot of us look for an excuse when we miss a shot we feel we should have made?
Just my opinion. I'm entitled to one as much as anyone else is. And since an opinion CANNOT be right or wrong (as it is just an opinion) please no flaming my post or trying to raise an argument over it
Maniac
Well, Wiseman went on to win the match anyway, so it doesn't really matter; although, it was Wiseman's first time under the lights on the TV cameras, and a move like that could easily have had an effect on him and caused him to miss whenever he went back to the shot.
Johnny may have been remorseful after he realized that the entire pool world just saw him do what he did, not just the people in the room who would have talked about it for a while and then let it drop.
I think that if I had been in Wiseman's spot, I would have been a little upset also.
I thought the same thing when I saw it...
Although, I've NEVER heard of Johnny trying to pull a "move", I think both of them play too good for it to matter. I don't know what Archer thought was going to happen, but as a player I'd much rather clear it up (if it's remotely questionable) BEFORE the shot, than try to figure it out later. There was a ref for the match so I'm sure it would have been called a foul if it was bad, but for the rest of us without a ref, I'd rather be sure before hand, than get into a big argument with no way to resolve it.
But, either way, Ronnie has been in the trenches WAY TOO LONG to be affected that much by a rules clarification. I think he was embarrassed for missing the shot and reacted with an excuse (we've all done it) I also think if he would have made the shot he would not have made such a big deal post match, either with Johnny or the "interview"
I can only imagine what he would have been saying if he'd lost the whole match instead of just the game.
It kinda funny, after seeing that, I subconsciously started rooting AGAINST Wiseman whenever I see him playing. I'm not exactly sure why, I just didn't think what Johnny did warranted all that posturing, especially from someone that plays as well as Ronnie does... I do like his cue though
Although, I've NEVER heard of Johnny trying to pull a "move", I think both of them play too good for it to matter. I don't know what Archer thought was going to happen, but as a player I'd much rather clear it up (if it's remotely questionable) BEFORE the shot, than try to figure it out later. There was a ref for the match so I'm sure it would have been called a foul if it was bad, but for the rest of us without a ref, I'd rather be sure before hand, than get into a big argument with no way to resolve it.
But, either way, Ronnie has been in the trenches WAY TOO LONG to be affected that much by a rules clarification. I think he was embarrassed for missing the shot and reacted with an excuse (we've all done it) I also think if he would have made the shot he would not have made such a big deal post match, either with Johnny or the "interview"
I can only imagine what he would have been saying if he'd lost the whole match instead of just the game.
It kinda funny, after seeing that, I subconsciously started rooting AGAINST Wiseman whenever I see him playing. I'm not exactly sure why, I just didn't think what Johnny did warranted all that posturing, especially from someone that plays as well as Ronnie does... I do like his cue though
Sharking or not, you can clearly see that Johnny was very remorseful about this situation (FTR, I am not condoning this move). He apologized after going back and taking his seat and then later when the rack was over you can hear him apologizing again, to which RW would have none of.
RW missed the shot. I seriously doubt that what Johnny did had all that much to do with it. Wiseman's been into enough action that his skin should be PLENTY thick enough to get past that move, if it was indeed a move at all.
C'mon, don't a lot of us look for an excuse when we miss a shot we feel we should have made?
Just my opinion. I'm entitled to one as much as anyone else is. And since an opinion CANNOT be right or wrong (as it is just an opinion) please no flaming my post or trying to raise an argument over it
Maniac
I've been around this stuff for about 25 years, and to say that ANY of the players have never put the move on is just nuts. And yes, you can bet your a$$ it affects you, even Ronnie. He did miss it, right? Ever had Johnny rack for you? How about Ronnie? I mean gambling. Never mind. I played Cliff on the barbox once getting a ball and the break, and made two balls in the first seven games on the break, until I started standing over them. On the barbox! Anyway, the smallest movement at the precise time is very helpful. Just ask Earl.Although, I've NEVER heard of Johnny trying to pull a "move", I think both of them play too good for it to matter. I don't know what Archer thought was going to happen, but as a player I'd much rather clear it up (if it's remotely questionable) BEFORE the shot, than try to figure it out later. There was a ref for the match so I'm sure it would have been called a foul if it was bad, but for the rest of us without a ref, I'd rather be sure before hand, than get into a big argument with no way to resolve it.
But, either way, Ronnie has been in the trenches WAY TOO LONG to be affected that much by a rules clarification. I think he was embarrassed for missing the shot and reacted with an excuse (we've all done it) I also think if he would have made the shot he would not have made such a big deal post match, either with Johnny or the "interview"
I can only imagine what he would have been saying if he'd lost the whole match instead of just the game.
It kinda funny, after seeing that, I subconsciously started rooting AGAINST Wiseman whenever I see him playing. I'm not exactly sure why, I just didn't think what Johnny did warranted all that posturing, especially from someone that plays as well as Ronnie does... I do like his cue though
I remember Ronnie telling me his cue is at least 21 oz, and it was a Schon. Tom
Aren't these basically the same players I'm watching every weekend on live streams shooting tournaments out of some poolhall/sports bar with people (waitresses, railbirds, players, etc.) almost bumping into them every few shots? Not to mention all the noise and other distractions (arguments, jukeboxes, people hollerin' at the waitresses, etc.) they seem to not notice going on around them.
Televised pool finals are very similar to televised bowling matches. All during the week they shoot/bowl with normal noise and visual distractions going on all around them, then when the T.V. lights come on it's quiet and calm like the inside of a funeral parlor. I have never figured out why it has to be this way. One little move or sound from the crowd at just the right moment and the shooters/bowlers concentration is shot to hell. You would think nothing (based on their non-televised matches) would/could/should distract them, at least to the point of blaming someone for their misfortune of a bad shot. That being said, I've never or ever will, shoot a game of pool under the extreme conditions of television lights. I understand pressure and how it affects ones fragile psyche. Wiseman should have taken his extension and collected himself before attempting the shot in question.
Once again, just opinions.
Maniac
I wasn't saying that Johnny NEVER tried a move like that, just that I'd never heard him accused of those kinds of things. I also have no doubt that it could affect a player, I guess I just want to believe those guys can fade that kind of BS without it getting in their head. I just don't believe it was as egregious as Ronnie implied. Yes he did miss the shot, but I'm not sure how anyone can say with certainty that it was because of Johnny... maybe he just missed. and yes I have had Johnny rack for me. It was at Mark Cantrill's Legends stop in Dallas, but it was just for fun. I guess he gave a good rack, I broke and ran out! Whooohooo:grin: (even caught it on video) needless to say I watch it at least once a day
Although, I've NEVER heard of Johnny trying to pull a "move", I think both of them play too good for it to matter. I don't know what Archer thought was going to happen, but as a player I'd much rather clear it up (if it's remotely questionable) BEFORE the shot, than try to figure it out later. There was a ref for the match so I'm sure it would have been called a foul if it was bad, but for the rest of us without a ref, I'd rather be sure before hand, than get into a big argument with no way to resolve it.
But, either way, Ronnie has been in the trenches WAY TOO LONG to be affected that much by a rules clarification. I think he was embarrassed for missing the shot and reacted with an excuse (we've all done it) I also think if he would have made the shot he would not have made such a big deal post match, either with Johnny or the "interview"
I can only imagine what he would have been saying if he'd lost the whole match instead of just the game.
It kinda funny, after seeing that, I subconsciously started rooting AGAINST Wiseman whenever I see him playing. I'm not exactly sure why, I just didn't think what Johnny did warranted all that posturing, especially from someone that plays as well as Ronnie does... I do like his cue though
My point exactly. There is a referee there to make any necessary decisions if there is a foul. The opposing player has no business disrupting the rythm of another player while they are involved in a professional match.
The point that no one seems to be noticing here is that this was Ronnie's first ever televised match.
It doesn't matter how long you have been doing this or who you have been in the grease with and how much you were betting, the first time that you play under the television lights when you know that all eyes are on you is a different type of pressure.
And that Ronnie needs all the help he can get playing Archer.
And CFish is spot on, those guys all know more moves than a plate of noodles on a train.
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I need to first state that I have the highest respect for JA and everything he has done within the sport. We are talking about the 90's "Player of the Decade" & HOF member.
However, I agree that JA had no business stepping in for the referee. IMO, the players need to sit in their seat & let the ref do their job. The fact that this happened when RW was shooting the 6B on the hill (and JA was visibly angry during the match) was no coincidence. The heat got to JA.
Further, it was RW's first time on TV and he was showing his nerves...road dog or not, he was visibly shaken. In the end, the move (whether it was malicious or not) was very effective. RW ended up overcutting the ball which is the side he would miss if overly concerned with fouling.
However, I agree that JA had no business stepping in for the referee. IMO, the players need to sit in their seat & let the ref do their job. The fact that this happened when RW was shooting the 6B on the hill (and JA was visibly angry during the match) was no coincidence. The heat got to JA.
Further, it was RW's first time on TV and he was showing his nerves...road dog or not, he was visibly shaken. In the end, the move (whether it was malicious or not) was very effective. RW ended up overcutting the ball which is the side he would miss if overly concerned with fouling.