Good post
Not many play full time even me I play off and on if there
Was more money I would play all the pro tourneys and I would be playing better
As wood other players
With all the great iunstructional materials why are there still just a few greats
- Thread starter CocoboloCowboy
- Start date
Not many play full time even me I play off and on if there
Was more money I would play all the pro tourneys and I would be playing better
As wood other players
Then we would go from town to town and gym to gym keeping it Ninja.:thumbup:
Human perception gets a bit tricky in these situations.
For example:
If every team in the nfl this coming year were to go 8-8, most would consider no team to be very good. However, every team could actually be better than every other team in history. But when teams winning percentages are closer together, with no one standing out, most people perceive all the teams of being weaker. Of course those even teams are not as good, "the 90's cowboys would never lose that many games!" It's all how we perceive our memories, and our memories are most certainly fallible.
Same goes with pool, and every other game or sport. If no one stands out amongst the rest, they most certainly can't be better than Mosconi right? Well, what if they're almost all better?
We compare the "bests of their times" without real perception of who, and what it was that they were besting.
It's the reason why these types of questions are asked in every game or sport, and no one ever has a real good answer.
Funny how everyone usually has an opinion though, and can't imagine not being correct.
For example:
If every team in the nfl this coming year were to go 8-8, most would consider no team to be very good. However, every team could actually be better than every other team in history. But when teams winning percentages are closer together, with no one standing out, most people perceive all the teams of being weaker. Of course those even teams are not as good, "the 90's cowboys would never lose that many games!" It's all how we perceive our memories, and our memories are most certainly fallible.
Same goes with pool, and every other game or sport. If no one stands out amongst the rest, they most certainly can't be better than Mosconi right? Well, what if they're almost all better?
We compare the "bests of their times" without real perception of who, and what it was that they were besting.
It's the reason why these types of questions are asked in every game or sport, and no one ever has a real good answer.
Funny how everyone usually has an opinion though, and can't imagine not being correct.
What exactly do you mean by "great"?
There are many more great players than ever before volume-wise...just not in this country.
There are many more great players than ever before volume-wise...just not in this country.
I used to really like watching the battles for the first shot
Earl Stickland, Johnny Archer, Rodney Morris, Francisco Bustemante, Efren Reyes and many more were in their prime 20 years ago, and they are still favorites in today's tournaments.
The main thing is the game's much easier than it was back in the 80s and 90s....when we gambled the game was "2 Shot Roll Out"....now it's one foul. There's a HUGE difference, and when you factor in jump cues, faster cloth and magical racks that give you a ball every time it confirms how gimmicky the game has become.
In one foul there's very little strategy, you either try to run out, or play safe and someone kicks to get lucky .....it's like bowling where you try to make a strike or try to make a spare.......and we wonder why no one wants to watch it?
I used to really like watching the battles for the first shot with champion players (now I can barely watch a game of pool).....it's so watered down it barely resembles the game when it was popular on ESPN and with the mainstream public. If these equipment/rules changes were allowed in any other sport/game the results would be similar.
The main difference is the rest of the games protect their game's mentality and make sure the best attributes {or their game} come forth. 'The Game is the Teacher'
Earl Stickland, Johnny Archer, Rodney Morris, Francisco Bustemante, Efren Reyes and many more were in their prime 20 years ago, and they are still favorites in today's tournaments.
The main thing is the game's much easier than it was back in the 80s and 90s....when we gambled the game was "2 Shot Roll Out"....now it's one foul. There's a HUGE difference, and when you factor in jump cues, faster cloth and magical racks that give you a ball every time it confirms how gimmicky the game has become.
In one foul there's very little strategy, you either try to run out, or play safe and someone kicks to get lucky .....it's like bowling where you try to make a strike or try to make a spare.......and we wonder why no one wants to watch it?
I used to really like watching the battles for the first shot with champion players (now I can barely watch a game of pool).....it's so watered down it barely resembles the game when it was popular on ESPN and with the mainstream public. If these equipment/rules changes were allowed in any other sport/game the results would be similar.
The main difference is the rest of the games protect their game's mentality and make sure the best attributes {or their game} come forth. 'The Game is the Teacher'
There's a lot of truth here, but I don't know if you can say that the game is easier, in today's formats you see a lot of hill to hill matches and the players have to be really strong mentally all the time.
Good players do not have the chance to build up a score lead anymore.
It's a different game nowdays..
As far as why people don't watch pool with the same feeling anymore, besides the lack of high runs due to the game format nowdays you get to see a lot of pool due to internet. Twenty years ago in Europe someone had to bring a tape every now and then and it would be treasured and watched over and over again..
That is something similar to the music industry, today's marketing and technology kind of "burn out" the artists since the give the audience too much of them in such a short period of time. Thirty years ago you had to wait for a next appearance and so on. The role models of the past where not so much "available" to the public, same for pool.
Quantity makes things less interesting and that's what is happening today, along with young people being less sports like and more into technology and other kinds of recreation.
Good players do not have the chance to build up a score lead anymore.
It's a different game nowdays..
As far as why people don't watch pool with the same feeling anymore, besides the lack of high runs due to the game format nowdays you get to see a lot of pool due to internet. Twenty years ago in Europe someone had to bring a tape every now and then and it would be treasured and watched over and over again..
That is something similar to the music industry, today's marketing and technology kind of "burn out" the artists since the give the audience too much of them in such a short period of time. Thirty years ago you had to wait for a next appearance and so on. The role models of the past where not so much "available" to the public, same for pool.
Quantity makes things less interesting and that's what is happening today, along with young people being less sports like and more into technology and other kinds of recreation.
Maybe it's BECAUSE of all the great instructional material that there are fewer 'greats' who stand out.
What makes someone a 'great'?
When they win every tournament for a while and seem to outclass the rest of the field.
How were they able to play a ball above everyone else?
Some of it is drive and talent. But maybe part of it was also knowledge.
They knew how to do some stuff the rest of the pros didn't... Little secrets of the break
or picking off the right balls in 14.1 or great 1p moves.
Now with the internet, everyone can learn those little secrets for free.
An example would Shane's break. It's really unique... it's not something you just naturally do,
there are some little tricks to it beyond just hitting hard and square. If it were that simple,
all the pros would have been using it from the time 10 ball became popular.
Shane showed it to the world and anyone with a PC could watch and learn, not just from
footage of him but written instructions spelling out the details that people figured out.
Now, almost all the pros were doing it just like shane... guys like mika, dennis, ko pin yi, they all
do a "shane break" in 10 ball. Even local shortstops you haven't heard of can do it.
Thanks to the internet and instructional materials, the average level of play is much higher,
so it's less likely for a few dominant players to snap up every tournament.
Harder to stand out when everyone can learn what the champions know.
What makes someone a 'great'?
When they win every tournament for a while and seem to outclass the rest of the field.
How were they able to play a ball above everyone else?
Some of it is drive and talent. But maybe part of it was also knowledge.
They knew how to do some stuff the rest of the pros didn't... Little secrets of the break
or picking off the right balls in 14.1 or great 1p moves.
Now with the internet, everyone can learn those little secrets for free.
An example would Shane's break. It's really unique... it's not something you just naturally do,
there are some little tricks to it beyond just hitting hard and square. If it were that simple,
all the pros would have been using it from the time 10 ball became popular.
Shane showed it to the world and anyone with a PC could watch and learn, not just from
footage of him but written instructions spelling out the details that people figured out.
Now, almost all the pros were doing it just like shane... guys like mika, dennis, ko pin yi, they all
do a "shane break" in 10 ball. Even local shortstops you haven't heard of can do it.
Thanks to the internet and instructional materials, the average level of play is much higher,
so it's less likely for a few dominant players to snap up every tournament.
Harder to stand out when everyone can learn what the champions know.
Good to see another F1 fan! Senna is/was the man!
It could also be that, there is little, if any REAL payoff to being great at pool. Shane's best year was only what $175k winnings, even if you figured he gets $75k in endorsments (which is HIGHLY doubtful) and he makes another $250k gambling (again highly doubtful) He doesn't make anything compared with even top snooker players, let alone golfers, poker players, or most other activities for that matter.
Even a simi-successful stock broker will clear more than that, and you need almost NO physical talent for that. The thing is, to play at the HIGHEST level, you have to have a love for the game, and not a lot of other options. Half the top pro's couldn't or can't do anything else. When they loose the ability to snap off tournies, and gambling sets, they go BUST overnight almost. So what's the long term options for a pro?
It takes a lot of guts to try to do the pro pool life. No family, small paydays (for most), living out of a suit case, not to mention time and money invested to get good enough to compete. Pro-pool is a losing bet no matter how you look at it, for most people anyway...
Just my $.02
Justin
The above sums it up. God bless the top pros for doing what they do. To me, such a lifestyle would be a nightmare.
If you find bios of the great pool players through history most have a few things in common. Their Father or a relative owned a poolroom or bar with pool tables. They had a table at home and their Father was a good player that could teach. When they started getting good they hung with pro players, played them, and talked pool with them. All of them that have became great played 20,000 to 50,000 hours to reach greatness. Most matched up tough for money day in and day out. They also have to really love the game because they are going to miss out on a lot in life.
It's the same in every sport. Hours of practice. I have two grand daughters that have been playing softball since they were like 6 years old. Their Dad could have been at least a minor league pitcher if he didn't screw up his arm and knees in high school. He coaches high school softball part time as did his father.
The girls have a backstop, batting cage, pitching machine...you name it they got it in their backyard. They love the game and that's about all they do along with straight A's all though high school. One has a full scholarship and playing her first year when the season starts. The other was just a high school freshman last year and played on the varsity team and was one of the top players. She has already been scouted and gone to many scouting camps. Johnnyt
It's the same in every sport. Hours of practice. I have two grand daughters that have been playing softball since they were like 6 years old. Their Dad could have been at least a minor league pitcher if he didn't screw up his arm and knees in high school. He coaches high school softball part time as did his father.
The girls have a backstop, batting cage, pitching machine...you name it they got it in their backyard. They love the game and that's about all they do along with straight A's all though high school. One has a full scholarship and playing her first year when the season starts. The other was just a high school freshman last year and played on the varsity team and was one of the top players. She has already been scouted and gone to many scouting camps. Johnnyt
Totally agree with your post.
I've read on these posts many times references to how money players can't remain unknown for long since the emergence of the Internet. At the same time, I can't recall many posts in this forum (I've only been here since April) requesting information about unknown players. So where and how on the internet does this process play out?
Look in any pool hall on weekend afternoons and you'll only find a handful of players actually trying material from books or setting up shots to improve a specific skill.
Too many players simply learn by playing - meaning of course that they are going to take years to learn something an instructor or book (& some practice) can give them in a half hour or less.
Team captains should make an effort to bring in an instructor twice a season to at least teach tactics and some tips on aiming with speed control.
I older I get, the more I realize that stupid is difficult to cure.
Too many players simply learn by playing - meaning of course that they are going to take years to learn something an instructor or book (& some practice) can give them in a half hour or less.
Team captains should make an effort to bring in an instructor twice a season to at least teach tactics and some tips on aiming with speed control.
I older I get, the more I realize that stupid is difficult to cure.
In every area of the country including small towns to cities there are pool detectives or just people that like to knock hustlers and gossip about everything else probably.
Stranger walks in poolroom looking for action and his picture gets taken with a cam-phone and sent to everyone that he knows in the pool scene. Five minutes later everyone in the poolroom knows the guys name, his speed, his best game, and where he's from. Johnnyt
Last edited:
Your travelling days are done..... LOL