I think we need to pressure Matchroom to get Bob and Dr Dave to do an intensive training session for these refs. So unfair to the players to have blatant mistakes like this effect them in a major tournament.
WNT Hanoi Open 2025, Vietnam, Oct 7-12
- Thread starter jbart65
- Start date
I think we need to pressure Matchroom to get Bob and Dr Dave to do an intensive training session for these refs. So unfair to the players to have blatant mistakes like this effect them in a major tournament.
There was a typhoon in Vietnam on Tuesday! Many locals are in damage control mode. I saw some of the pictures on TV news and it looked pretty scary.
My heart goes out to all the Vietnamese who were victimized by the typhoon.
By ancestry, but was born and raised in HK and plays form them.
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Black tiger goes down. One Pinoy left, Harry vergara. I haven't watched his matches, but I've seen his name around.
me neither, this year. he's probably most known for this finish against svb:
but imo moritz must like his chances
The tables are wet. It’s a horror story every shot
As soon as I saw your post mentioning a horrible ref call, I immediately knew Marcel was involved, because he makes a lot of horrible calls. In fact, it seems that the vast majority of the truly horrible calls on the most obvious situations come from Marcel, and Marcel alone. Watched the video and sure enough, Marcel was the one to make the final ruling that this was a legal hit.
102K views · 876 reactions | Well, well, well.... correct call or not...? 👀 Drama late in the quarter-final between Robbie Capito and Max Lechner, as the hit on the 4-ball was deemed legal... #WNT | #HanoiOpenPool 🇻🇳 | Matchroom Pool
Well, well, well.... correct call or not...? 👀 Drama late in the quarter-final between Robbie Capito and Max Lechner, as the hit on the 4-ball was deemed legal... #WNT | #HanoiOpenPool 🇻🇳.www.facebook.com
How can the ref(s) make this terrible call? Referee Pool Physics 101. There is no way the CB would deviate to the left like that if it hit the 4-ball first and the 9-ball second. Lechner got robbed.
You are right that this is pool physics 101, but Marcel isn't even at the 101 level. The 101 level isn't even in distant sight for him either. The dude literally, not figuratively, but literally, does not even have the pool knowledge or understanding of pool ball reactions of the average APA 3/Fargo 350 level player.
Marcel seems like he is probably a nice, good guy. He seems to have the perfect demeanor for reffing, holds himself well, and gives an air of perfect professionalism. Unfortunately he is also completely and utterly clueless and incompetent when it comes to making calls. Not ok with some need for improvement, but literally completely and grossly incompetent.
As much as he has been around pool, if he still can't immediately spot and understand how something as basic and blatantly obvious as this is a foul, I'm starting to think this likely is not even a training issue, but an intelligence issue, and he may not even be trainable to be competent. Whatever the cause, he needs to go, not to be brought back until he gains competency, if that is even possible for him.
It would be Moritz' first WNT major if he wins. The PLP was a WNT invitational and the Peri was a WNT rankings event, but neither was a WNT major. Of course, events like the Peri and the International 9-ball offer the kind of fields and prize money found at the WNT majors, so they are practically majors, but they are not Matchroom produced events and are therefore not majors. Moritz is having one hell of a year.
Three of the four players tomorrow seek their first WNT major. Only Capito has a WNT major (2024 UK Open).
Who produced an event has about as much to do with whether something is a major or not as what color of shoelaces a player is wearing has to do with how great of a player they are. What makes for a major are things like current and historic field strength, current and historic prize fund, length of history of the event, and the like. Who produces an event is immaterial.
The Peri is not part of the WNT tour and neither is the International, but each, through Matchroom affiliation, offers plenty of money and Matchroom ranking points, making them important. If you want to call such events majors, I'm OK with it, but they are not WNT majors.
As you know, Emily is very stringent when it comes to whether the top players will play in all the WNT majors, and missing the WNT majors, as we have seen, has consequences. Emily has never insisted that the top WNT roster players participate in the other WNT ranking events like the Peri or the International. That's always optional and the players pick and choose when it comes to those ranking events.
FYI, the 2025 Matchroom majors making up the WNT Tour are UK Open, European Open, US Open 9ball, World 9ball, Florida Open, Hanoi Open, and Philippines Open. Miss those and you'll rub Matchroom the wrong way and it may disqualify you from WNT Invitationals (like PLP, Mosconi Cup or Reyes Cup). Miss anything else and Matchroom does not care.
Stu, let me add this modest piece to your immense knowledge of the pool world.
That's an extract from WPA Regulations, effective as of March 2016. I mean, it is not a novelty, so has nothing to do with recent (2025) updates to official Rules and Regs of the game.
It has been like than for more than two decades at least.
(Attn. copy @ctran
)Also, the rules of pool require any referee (even Marcel) to be 100 percent sure about the foul for them to make such a call. Meaning, if a ref is only 98 percent sure he is supposed to stay away from calling a foul. (The afore-mentioned benefit of a doubt)
I wasn't offering an opinion one way or the other on whether they are majors or not, and whether they are or not would have nothing to do with what you said or my response to what you said.
You said that they, and by implication any other events, can't be majors because they are not produced by Matchroom (...but they are not Matchroom produced events and are therefore not majors"). My assertion is simply that this claim is quite obviously silly, and I have almost no doubt that you know that as well so I'm not quite sure why you said it anyway. Perhaps you just had a momentary brain fart like we all get on occasion, or perhaps you were actually trying to say something else and just used really poor wording.
None of this has anything to do with my response or point. I was just pointing out that an event from a promoter other than Matchroom can in fact be a major, and any claim to the contrary like you made (hopefully due to poor wording or brain fart) is just incorrect. Now there can certainly be a major that Matchroom doesn't care about, but that doesn't change whether it is a major or not as it is whatever it is.
i tend to agree here. philippines open has a meager prize fund, hasn't even happened, and florida is brand new, so i wouldn't call them majors. let's see if they stick around. the peri open had a tough field and paid well, it took some serious steel to win that. and international has been around longer than every MR open except the US open and WPC (which is invitational, but anyway)
Ah, c'mon ppl, don't argue over a silly definition! 
Matchroom calls their event a major to make them differ from their own tour's 'minor'. As such, for their WNT any event with a prize fund over 200K is a major. Regardless of the field strength. Of course there were, and are, major tournaments other than Matchroom operated events, as simple as that. Just recently sjm and jbart65 had a little conversation where the former provided a pretty neat list.
Matchroom calls their event a major to make them differ from their own tour's 'minor'. As such, for their WNT any event with a prize fund over 200K is a major. Regardless of the field strength. Of course there were, and are, major tournaments other than Matchroom operated events, as simple as that. Just recently sjm and jbart65 had a little conversation where the former provided a pretty neat list.
Forgive me, I grew up in the days when split hits were fouls, and it is more than 20 years since I last competed. To be fair, it's a rule that comes up about once a year for a typical serious player. That was the rule for about thirty years. I do try to keep up with rules changes, but I guess I missed this one.Stu, let me add this modest piece to your immense knowledge of the pool world.
That's an extract from WPA Regulations, effective as of March 2016. I mean, it is not a novelty, so has nothing to do with recent (2025) updates to official Rules and Regs of the game.
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It has been like than for more than two decades at least.
(Attn. copy @ctran
Also, the rules of pool require any referee (even Marcel) to be 100 percent sure about the foul for them to make such a call. Meaning, if a ref is only 98 percent sure he is supposed to stay away from calling a foul. (The afore-mentioned benefit of a doubt)
Yes, we all understand that Marcel's lack of understanding of the game, which others have already noted, explains why he was not sure of the call, but this call could hardly have been more obvious to anyone with a comprehension of how to make this kind of call.
Even an average APA referee gets this call right every time. So, yes, because he had no idea what he was doing nor how to evaluate the result on the replay, Marcel was not sure and ruled accordingly, but this is one of the worst calls I have ever seen by a referee.
The moral of the story is that referees who are incapable of making a call as simple as this one should not officiate in the later rounds of a major. Get someone who is up to the task. Of course, somebody just needs to train Marcel to make this kind of call, which he has gotten wrong before.
We can't have this kind of officiating error. Bob Jewett, the most knowledgeable man in the world on the subject of the rules of pool, deemed Capito's foul obvious, even without a replay. This kind of cluelessness compromises the competitive integrity of pool's biggest events and is not excusable on the basis that a referee is either poorly trained or unknowledgeable with respect to carrying out his duties.
Let's not look for a way to defend the indefensible. A GIANT error was made that may possibly have decided a quarterfinal of a major. It's best when the players decide who wins.
Agreed 100%. Just not a WNT major.
We're not doomed. We have been put on alert that Matchroom's head referee needs further training with respect to making this kind of call. Why should we assume that he cannot or will not receive that training?Well, we are doomed thenCuz Mr Marcel Eckardt is a head referee for WNT.