wondering wth is going on

mr.que

mr.que

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have been playing pool for 30+ years now and have never seen this. I was up to the Wisconsin state wamo pool tourney last night to feel out the tables for todays singles event.
And as i always do before a match i test the speed of the table and check for little rolls that may come up if i'm slow rolling a shot.
Also i shoot a couple banks to get the feel for them also. Then i shoot a couple three rail shots, just in case you need to kick at a ball after being played safe by your opponent.
And thats when the weirdest thing i have saw happened.
So i put the cue ball in the corner pocket to check and see if it's a 3rd diamond 3 rail or a 2nd diamond 3 rail to the corner. I much to my surprise hitting the 3rd diamond came up a diamond long, thats right long. I had to do it a few more times just to make sure i wasn't missing something. So then i shot it above the side aiming at the 4th diamond and i'll be damned if it didnt go 3 rails in the corner. Where as it should have gone 1 rail in the lower corner. What is going on? These are Valley tables. Has anyone else ever came across this problem? You cant even do simple one rail banks, they all come up long. The funny thing is that all the tables are brand new with new balls, but they all dont play that way. I found like 3 out 6 of them that i tested played this way. What is going on?
 
Well, tomorrow is April Fool's Day...maybe someone jumped the gun a little? :shrug:
 
bobroberts...There is no "set up" to a Valley BB. Screw the legs on, and put the table upright. You can slightly adjust the table legs to "level" the table, but there is nothing you can do about the rails, slate or pockets. It's possible that the rails are not screwed down tightly, but you'd have to take off the metal strips, hiding the bolts that hold the rails on, to check that...and you'd have to check every bolt.

To the OP...I've seen many tables that were set up strangely, and didn't bank consistently...both BB and even 9' Diamonds and GC's. I once did an exhibition at a school with brand new 9' Diamond tables. The table I was doing my show on, you had to hit almost in the far corner pocket, to go 3 rails into the corner (that is 2-3 diamonds off of standard kickpoints).
bobroberts said:
it would seem like the mechanic who set them up didn't do a good job.
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Scott Lee said:
bobroberts...

. The table I was doing my show on, you had to hit almost in the far corner pocket, to go 3 rails into the corner (that is 2-3 diamonds off of standard kickpoints).
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There was a GC that I played on occasionally that you couldn't go deep enough into the first rail to make the 3-railer. 'Twas bizarre!
 
If you put this in the Mechanic's Forum you'll get the right answer. I'm not a table mechanic but stayed at the Holiday Inn. I believe one or more of the rails are adjusted too high or too low. Too high the ball gets trapped a bit under the rail changing the angle coming off long and too low rails the ball hops coming off going long. Johnnyt
 
Johnnyt...I'm surprised to hear you say this, since I believe you have a Valley BB. There is no rail height adjustment on this table. The rubber is glued to the metal strip, with threaded screws that go through the body of the table, and tighten down only one way. Maybe I'm wrong here, but I've never seen a Valley BB where the rails attached any different way.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Johnnyt said:
If you put this in the Mechanic's Forum you'll get the right answer. I'm not a table mechanic but stayed at the Holiday Inn. I believe one or more of the rails are adjusted too high or too low. Too high the ball gets trapped a bit under the rail changing the angle coming off long and too low rails the ball hops coming off going long. Johnnyt
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Johnnyt said:
If you put this in the Mechanic's Forum you'll get the right answer. I'm not a table mechanic but stayed at the Holiday Inn. I believe one or more of the rails are adjusted too high or too low. Too high the ball gets trapped a bit under the rail changing the angle coming off long and too low rails the ball hops coming off going long. Johnnyt
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Thanks Johnnyt did not know about the mechanics forum.
Anyway i'm off to the tourney now and i'm taking a tape measure to figure this out i'll post out my findings. Hope i dont have to play on one of these.
 
Scott Lee said:
Johnnyt...I'm surprised to hear you say this, since I believe you have a Valley BB. There is no rail height adjustment on this table. The rubber is glued to the metal strip, with threaded screws that go through the body of the table, and tighten down only one way. Maybe I'm wrong here, but I've never seen a Valley BB where the rails attached any different way.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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There is room for about 1/8" or more for up and down and side to side on mine and everyo one I ever worked on (probably about 50 of them). Johnnyt
 
Johnnyt...I'll take your word for it, but that's an awful lot of play for metal screws going into a fixed metal female end. Even so, with the OP's post, they are certainly not messing with the slates for this tournament. They drop the BB's in...screw the legs on, and set them upright...with little more adjustment, other than the feet, to "level" them.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Johnnyt said:
There is room for about 1/8" or more for up and down and side to side on mine and everyo one I ever worked on (probably about 50 of them). Johnnyt
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mr.que said:
... So then i shot it above the side aiming at the 4th diamond and i'll be damned if it didnt go 3 rails in the corner. Where as it should have gone 1 rail in the lower corner. What is going on? These are Valley tables. ...
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The only time I played in a tournament on Valley tables I noticed that they were playing a little long. My opponent hooked me and I had to kick three rails to hit a ball a diamond up the long rail from the corner pocket, so I aimed plenty short. The cue ball ended up coming in to the first diamond on the end rail and then hit the object ball. People clapped for the good hit. This was about 15 years ago. I always figured that's just the way Valleys play.
 
I am playing 3 cushion in 10f tables and i know exactly what you are saying.Of course its a mechanical problem.I believe that many times the tables are so good as the mechanic who fixed them.Such problems should be solved by that man and then finish the job.....
 
Mr.que,

You did not note in your post whether the table was new, newly re-built or previously used. We have Valley's locally that play as you described. Dead rail rubbers. Last night I played a simple one rail bank to a corner pocket. Bank almost dead on the second diamond. To my amazement, the object ball hit more than a diamond and one half up the adjoining short rail! Talk about banking long!

Lyn

PS No jokes about being too old to see clearly please ;)!
 
been there

I've been to the WAMO before and discovered the same thing you have.

My theory is that since its geared for "C" players, they're more accustomed to running into tables with dead rails and are also used to banging balls around.

The dead rails also make the pockets more forgiving thus making the games go faster. With hundreds of players in the singles, they need to keep the tourney moving.

I've made an oath not return to that tournament until the quality of their tables improve to an "average" rating.
 
I played at this tournament. The rails on the tables were dead. I also lost two games where balls veered-off significantly.

One was a shot in a side pocket where the object ball curved about 3 inches away from the pocket.

The other one was a safety where I was shooting at the 8-ball the full length of the table. I knew that there was a possibility that the table may not be perfectly level -- so I intentionally shot the cue ball directly at the 8-ball, figuring that leaving the cue ball on the end rail would be better than missing the 8-ball. The cue ball veered off what seemed like 4-6 inches and I missed the 8-ball by at least 2 inches, which cost me the match in the winners side of the open singles, putting me over in the losers bracket at around midnight. It's hard enough winning short races without the equipment scr@wing you too.

EDIT: As per the post above mine. Yes, the pockets were accepting balls hit around a diamond and a half up the long rails. Hitting at pocket speed, some balls went in when they hit even further up the rail.
 
These posts are giving me better perspective on the (fewer) problems the tables have at the club I belong to. :D

I'll take the small drift down the left side rail and the goofy slate seams on our tables over the problems you guys faced, any day!

(The drift down the left side is actually interesting, once you realize it's there. You can even use it to your advantage, if you must. Screws up visiting players occasionally :p )
 
#Cruncher said:
I've been to the WAMO before and discovered the same thing you have.

My theory is that since its geared for "C" players, they're more accustomed to running into tables with dead rails and are also used to banging balls around.

The dead rails also make the pockets more forgiving thus making the games go faster. With hundreds of players in the singles, they need to keep the tourney moving.

I've made an oath not return to that tournament until the quality of their tables improve to an "average" rating.
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The valley tables were new. They also had Shelti, unsure if used or not. A statement that the tournamen is set up for "C" players is silly. If you think they intentionally set up the tables to have issues, you are crazy. What a slam to those that actually play the tournament regardless of ability.
 
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