Wood Hardener

LGSM3

LGSM3

Jake<built cues for fun
Silver Member
Was at my local wood supplier last week and was quizing them on impregnating wood, "the obvious types". There response was that to even do a minimal job at it on my own would mean that i needed to buy the vacuum system as well as the chemicals of which could cost anywhere from 3-25k to get setup! Nevermind!

Anyway, they then showed me a can of Minwax wood hardener. I know that this probably doesnt compare in anyway to true resin impregnation.

My question is, have any of you guys experimented with this. Does it have any adverse effect on the wood or finish?

I put about 4 ounces in one of my little epoxy mixing cups and dipped the end of a pc of cedar in it. Figured it would be a good test pc. After about 10 seconds it was really soaking up the liquid "viscosity of water" but it melted the bottom of the cup and ran out everywhere. Not sure of the actual results yet and will let everyone know. Was just wondering if i'm wasting my time, surely someone has tried it or something similar.
 
It will all depend on what you are trying to do. I use some for different things but if you are trying to substitute grain hardener for resin impregnation, it won't work.
 
ratcues said:
It will all depend on what you are trying to do. I use some for different things but if you are trying to substitute grain hardener for resin impregnation, it won't work.
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ultimately just looking for something to make the softer woods more solid/dense. The can does state that it contains resin, my hope was that it would add some weight as well as stability. thanks for the response
 
63Kcode said:
I thought you needed a prescription for "wood hardner"

Larry
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you must have a list of funny shit laying around just waiting on the oppurtunity to use them!


Maybe when i'm as old as you guys:p
 
I've used it.
Thinned and unthinned.
It doesn't hurt to submerge gundrilled softwoods in there ( it will darken color fwiw ).
I tried it on Koa and was happy with it. It even changed the tone a little.
Make sure you do it outside of the shop though and use respirator and blue gloves. That stuff is nasty.
 
LGSM3 said:
Was at my local wood supplier last week and was quizing them on impregnating wood, "the obvious types". There response was that to even do a minimal job at it on my own would mean that i needed to buy the vacuum system as well as the chemicals of which could cost anywhere from 3-25k to get setup! Nevermind!

Anyway, they then showed me a can of Minwax wood hardener. I know that this probably doesnt compare in anyway to true resin impregnation.

My question is, have any of you guys experimented with this. Does it have any adverse effect on the wood or finish?

I put about 4 ounces in one of my little epoxy mixing cups and dipped the end of a pc of cedar in it. Figured it would be a good test pc. After about 10 seconds it was really soaking up the liquid "viscosity of water" but it melted the bottom of the cup and ran out everywhere. Not sure of the actual results yet and will let everyone know. Was just wondering if i'm wasting my time, surely someone has tried it or something similar.
Click to expand...

I think it will work but you must get inside and out side. The way Ive used the stuff on softer woods was to core the forearm almost all the way through. Then fill the inside of the forearm with the minwax hardener and leave it for a minimum of 24 hour's to soak in. Then I dump any excess out into a container for reuse, and put the entire forearm in a bucket of the stuff, I mean completely submerge it. You can put a rock on the exposed end of wood to keep it submerged. I have found that the wood will really soak the stuff up, but like other said do in outside where it can air. Also you can reuse the stuff until it gone.

Good Luck
 
Tbeaux said:
It doesn't HAVE to cost that much..........http://myweb.cableone.net/bcanderson/Boatz/Vacuum/Vacuum.html
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That method works great for laminating veneers, etc. But a little stronger pump is needed for stabilizing as you have to pull the air out of the wood. There are many ways to save money, but the main item is the stabilizing agent and the containers you will use. Most wood hardeners have either acetone and/or keytone in them as the solvent, which both are very dangerous, and will also melt most normal plastic containers. They also tend to darken the wood. Harbor Freight has vacume pumps for HVAC and they work awesome for the money, but don't use them with any acetone or keytone base fluids as the vapors will melt all the seals etc in the pump....learned that one after 3 uses (good thing for the warrentee).
Dave
 
manwon said:
I think it will work but you must get inside and out side. The way Ive used the stuff on softer woods was to core the forearm almost all the way through. Then fill the inside of the forearm with the minwax hardener and leave it for a minimum of 24 hour's to soak in. Then I dump any excess out into a container for reuse, and put the entire forearm in a bucket of the stuff, I mean completely submerge it. You can put a rock on the exposed end of wood to keep it submerged. I have found that the wood will really soak the stuff up, but like other said do in outside where it can air. Also you can reuse the stuff until it gone.

Good Luck
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Glass containers and let it soak until it sinks to the bottom. You can put a weight on it, but make sure it's a rock, so it won't interact with the solvents. Give it a shake every few hours to stir up the resins. Colorful Stuff like amboya burl will leach color into the fluid turning it orangy so you ends up with leftover fluid that don't match color wise. Works good for small pieces.
Dave
 
Minwax wood hardner

I have used it for years on woods for knife handles. Some wood I will send to K&G in Arizona to have stabalized I think they charge 12.00 per lb.
If you cored your wood first it would not be expensive to send it to them.
The wood hardner works on small pieces and I use it on some Giraffe bone as well as aligator bone. I put it in a aluminum tube I have and you need to have the grain up so the air can escape the wood out the end grain. I submerge it just to where I have the end sticking up about 1/8 of an inch. That leaves room for the air to get out of the grain. I have tried heating the wood up first just so the grain is more open. It works good for what I want and should work on a cored piece of wood fairly well.
Good luck and do it in a well ventilated area. Not in the sun though, it will evaporate easily. I just put a top on my tubes and it works ok.

Percy/Knifemaker
 
Would a thin super glue harden the wood like you need it?

I have some very pulpy burl maple that I make pens with and that is what I use to harden it up.
Makes it almost like a stabilized wood.
 
manwon said:
I think it will work but you must get inside and out side. The way Ive used the stuff on softer woods was to core the forearm almost all the way through. Then fill the inside of the forearm with the minwax hardener and leave it for a minimum of 24 hour's to soak in. Then I dump any excess out into a container for reuse, and put the entire forearm in a bucket of the stuff, I mean completely submerge it. You can put a rock on the exposed end of wood to keep it submerged. I have found that the wood will really soak the stuff up, but like other said do in outside where it can air. Also you can reuse the stuff until it gone.

Good Luck
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When I use a stabilizer on my shaft wood I place it into a tank and pull a vacuum on it.
This pulls the air out of the wood and it sinks to the bottom of the tank.
I then release the vacuum and the stabilizer is forced into the wood by atmospheric pressure.
I wonder if that would work for you.
 
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WilleeCue said:
When I use a stabilizer on my shaft wood I place it into a tank and pull a vacuum on it.
This pulls the air out of the wood and it sinks to the bottom of the tank.
I then release the vacuum and the stabilizer is forced into the wood by atmospheric pressure.
I wonder if that would work for you.
Click to expand...

As a word of caution, ANY solvent based stabilizing fluid used in a vacuum tank will have the flashpoint of ignition lowered significantly, therefore increasing the risk of an explosion or fire. I highly recommend having the pump vent outside for the fumes to disperse and don't smoke while it's running.
This isn't just my opinion, it is a stated fact on most manufacturer's websites. I did a lot of research on stabilizing in the last year or so before building my own tank and choosing the stabilizer that I use.
Please use caution when experimenting guys, don't want to lose anyone..
Dave
 
Why not increase the psi.

Dave38 said:
As a word of caution, ANY solvent based stabilizing fluid used in a vacuum tank will have the flashpoint of ignition lowered significantly, therefore increasing the risk of an explosion or fire. I highly recommend having the pump vent outside for the fumes to disperse and don't smoke while it's running.
This isn't just my opinion, it is a stated fact on most manufacturer's websites. I did a lot of research on stabilizing in the last year or so before building my own tank and choosing the stabilizer that I use.
Please use caution when experimenting guys, don't want to lose anyone..
Dave
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Dave,

Thanks for bring up the safety question and alert to CMs. I am sure everyone here appreciates your sharing with respect to life and limb. This brings up my questions about impregnation of wood which is something I have been wanting to do and play with for a long time. I have spent so much freaking time modifying and tweaking my machinery that it keeps being on the back burner.

Question: If a piece of wood is sitting on my shelf and all of the pours or air spaces between the grain and the fibers are at 14.7 psig., why would I want to put them in vacuum? I would think that they would have to be placed in a pressure vessel that increased the pressure in that tank. The fluid would want to seek out the lower pressure areas in the wood and or membranes to equalize to the high ambient tank pressure due to the differential ("Delta P").

I did not know the flash point would increase as you pulled a vacuum but I don't have a any practical experience with putting things into a vacuum. I used to own and operate Hyperbaric Chambers and I do know if you put things in a vessel and increase the atmospheric pressure, the partial pressure of oxygen increases and the flash point threshold of all mater changes and everything will ignite at a lower temperature point than if they are at 14.7 gauge. Solvents and chems. can get extremely volatile at an exponential rate and shit can go bad real fast. Because you mentioned venting the tank I am thinking you meant to say pressure tank instead of vacuum tank in your post but I am not sure.

Question # 2: What is the best stuff to use for impregnation. I saw some of the wood pieces that guy was selling at the Billiards Expo a few years ago and those turning squares were very expensive. I love the looks of some of the colored spallted maple. Seems to me that this process could be had for a low investment for plant equipment. All you would need is the know how. LOL That's the hard part!!!:grin-square:

Rick G
 
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