Wood issues - Ebony

Newton

Newton

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have been working by the principal that I let the wood breath between
turns and also after ripping to squares.

Usually the wood is chopped, put on my shelf and then turned in between.
Now-on the last Ebony I had (waxed) I did the same - turned it round and
put it back on my shelf.

Well, I was babysitting these for a special project and I noticed that the wood
had got some really small - small cracks in two spots. This has never happened
before - I have don the same thing with all the others species I have.

I can't remember if the Ebony was Killn or not, but I guess the wood dried to
fast when I removed the wax and turned them round. To prevent more damage
I sealed the wood with shaft sealer to hopefully save the species.

I have received the advice of putting the wood in a air tight plastic bag to prevent
this, but this is a little unusual for me.

How do you guys prevent this from happening ?

Happy Easter by the way.
K
 
Seal the end grain. You can use CA glue. Loosely wrap the piece(s) in some newspaper and let it set on the shelf until the next turn. Moisture transfers faster through the endgrain.
 
ratcues said:
Seal the end grain. You can use CA glue. Loosely wrap the piece(s) in some newspaper and let it set on the shelf until the next turn. Moisture transfers faster through the endgrain.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip Ryan.

In the end of the squares I have only used a scraper and removed some of the
wax and then center drilled for the centers to grip. So the end grains is
kind of still semi sealed with some wax, but of course not 100%.

I'll keep a eye on this and see if the cracks develops any more - hopefully the
sealer would help.

Kent
 
Go with the sealer on the rest of the piece and the end grains sealed. Maybe even take smaller passes.
 
I run some thin ca directly into the crack when this happens. I also seal the entire piece in ca.
Mr H
 
Newton said:
I have been working by the principal that I let the wood breath between
turns and also after ripping to squares.

Usually the wood is chopped, put on my shelf and then turned in between.
Now-on the last Ebony I had (waxed) I did the same - turned it round and
put it back on my shelf.

Well, I was babysitting these for a special project and I noticed that the wood
had got some really small - small cracks in two spots. This has never happened
before - I have don the same thing with all the others species I have.

I can't remember if the Ebony was Killn or not, but I guess the wood dried to
fast when I removed the wax and turned them round. To prevent more damage
I sealed the wood with shaft sealer to hopefully save the species.

I have received the advice of putting the wood in a air tight plastic bag to prevent
this, but this is a little unusual for me.

How do you guys prevent this from happening ?

Happy Easter by the way.
K
Click to expand...

IMO....There should be no reason to fully wax kiln dried wood. The only woods that may require this would be snakewood and burls and of course wet wood. I hate suppliers that tell you they are selling you kiln dried wood and it arrives fully coated in wax. They have lost business if this is the case. NO reason for it if it's kiln dried!
Ends sealed in wax is acceptable.
I believe the reason your piece has developed checks is that it may be high in moisture content and is drying out too fast. CA or a good coat of sanding sealer after reducing the diameter will help slow this down.
 
BarenbruggeCues said:
IMO....There should be no reason to fully wax kiln dried wood. The only woods that may require this would be snakewood and burls and of course wet wood. I hate suppliers that tell you they are selling you kiln dried wood and it arrives fully coated in wax. They have lost business if this is the case. NO reason for it if it's kiln dried!
Ends sealed in wax is acceptable.
I believe the reason your piece has developed checks is that it may be high in moisture content and is drying out too fast. CA or a good coat of sanding sealer after reducing the diameter will help slow this down.
Click to expand...

Dave,
you are spot on and we're in sync here.

I have used kiln dried wood all the time, Zebrano,Walnut,African Blackwood and
you name it - non have cracked after my initial pass and ripping...
So this was kind of new to me.

Normally I seal the end grains when I chop green wood and let it rest for a loooooong
time with the bark (not sure if this is the correct word - but the thing covering
the wood when it's copped) covering the wood. I have some lying in the shelf
doing just that...

Now, I have checked with my emails and this was supposed to be kiln dried
Ebony, so this was new experience as mentioned.

The tip from the reseller was that 1: either seal it in a airtight bag or 2: seal
with polyurethane.

For me, this is playing with a loaded gun ; I can't seal it between passes and
make a cue out of it with "sealing between every pass"... For me this
is asking for trouble. Warpage would occurs I expect.

Thanks everybody for your feedback - it's highly appreciated and I guess the
customers just have to wait even longer...

K
 
Newton said:
I have been working by the principal that I let the wood breath between
turns and also after ripping to squares.

Usually the wood is chopped, put on my shelf and then turned in between.
Now-on the last Ebony I had (waxed) I did the same - turned it round and
put it back on my shelf.

Well, I was babysitting these for a special project and I noticed that the wood
had got some really small - small cracks in two spots. This has never happened
before - I have don the same thing with all the others species I have.

I can't remember if the Ebony was Killn or not, but I guess the wood dried to
fast when I removed the wax and turned them round. To prevent more damage
I sealed the wood with shaft sealer to hopefully save the species.

I have received the advice of putting the wood in a air tight plastic bag to prevent
this, but this is a little unusual for me.

How do you guys prevent this from happening ?

Happy Easter by the way.
K
Click to expand...

they wax it because it is not kiln dried....AND TO HIDE THE CRACK which you won't see until you take wax off. Ebony is great for points and inlays but use it for a structural piece in the cue and you are looking for problems. Look at you ebony in the summer and the humidity is 80+ % and you won't see any cracks. Look in the winter when humidity can be 20% and they will gape at you. Super glue can fill them but then that is a stop gap measure {pun]. Just like DPK I believe ebony is one of the worst woods for cues, noxious to turn and vastly overrated by the uninformed buyer. Your clue should be that with the other woods you use you don't have this problem. Must be this particular wood, not your process. Don't beat up on yourself, just stop using it and get a life.
 
Over the past 26 years I have made a lot of Ebony cues & to date I have some 60 pieces, that are both round & square. I love the hit & have only had one piece that developed cracks, after it was turned. I think I must be very lucky or have had a great supplier...JER
 
Ebony is known for checking during the drying process. Sometimes it's going to happen and there's not much you can do to prevent it if you ever want to get the wood dry. You'll just have to figure on a certain percentage not making the cut.
Ebony is a very difficult wood to dry properly. It takes a long time.
Any wood that is suspect should have the end-grain waxed as has been stated.
I also believe that it makes a difference WHERE you store & age your wood.
I start mine in a building outdoors; my barn. No artificial heat, no A/C, just plain old air drying/seasoning. After a year or two, I'll take it to my shop.
Once there, I store it near the floor where the humidity is likely to be higher.
As cut passes are made over time, I start to move it up the shelves where the air is slightly drier. After a year or two, when it's made it to the top shelf, I feel it's ready to work.

Above all else, get yourself a moisture meter. You need to know where your wood's moisture level is at when the wood comes in. Don't take any seller's word as far as kiln dried. Learn to read your meter and trust it.

One experience I had when buying supposedly kiln-dried Cocobolo was quite a wake-up call. It pegged-out my meter and my meter reads to 22%. The Coco was above that but was supposed to be kiln-dried. Trust no one.
 
KJ Cues said:
Ebony is known for checking during the drying process. Sometimes it's going to happen and there's not much you can do to prevent it if you ever want to get the wood dry. You'll just have to figure on a certain percentage not making the cut.
Ebony is a very difficult wood to dry properly. It takes a long time.
Any wood that is suspect should have the end-grain waxed as has been stated.
I also believe that it makes a difference WHERE you store & age your wood.
I start mine in a building outdoors; my barn. No artificial heat, no A/C, just plain old air drying/seasoning. After a year or two, I'll take it to my shop.
Once there, I store it near the floor where the humidity is likely to be higher.
As cut passes are made over time, I start to move it up the shelves where the air is slightly drier. After a year or two, when it's made it to the top shelf, I feel it's ready to work.

Above all else, get yourself a moisture meter. You need to know where your wood's moisture level is at when the wood comes in. Don't take any seller's word as far as kiln dried. Learn to read your meter and trust it.

One experience I had when buying supposedly kiln-dried Cocobolo was quite a wake-up call. It pegged-out my meter and my meter reads to 22%. The Coco was above that but was supposed to be kiln-dried. Trust no one.
Click to expand...

Glad to see there are others like myself out there that believe in letting the wood cure naturally, rather than in some supposedly humdity controlled cabinet. I mean that is how the tree grew was it not.

Slowly but surely is the way to do it as KJ says. Buy a piece of wood todya [don't care what it is is] and make a cue from in tomorrow.....WELLL GOOOODDD LUCK SUCKER
 
Newton said:
Dave,
you are spot on and we're in sync here.

I have used kiln dried wood all the time, Zebrano,Walnut,African Blackwood and
you name it - non have cracked after my initial pass and ripping...
So this was kind of new to me.

Normally I seal the end grains when I chop green wood and let it rest for a loooooong
time with the bark (not sure if this is the correct word - but the thing covering
the wood when it's copped) covering the wood. I have some lying in the shelf
doing just that...

Now, I have checked with my emails and this was supposed to be kiln dried
Ebony, so this was new experience as mentioned.

The tip from the reseller was that 1: either seal it in a airtight bag or 2: seal
with polyurethane.

For me, this is playing with a loaded gun ; I can't seal it between passes and
make a cue out of it with "sealing between every pass"... For me this
is asking for trouble. Warpage would occurs I expect.

Thanks everybody for your feedback - it's highly appreciated and I guess the
customers just have to wait even longer...

K
Click to expand...



I agree with the fact that ebony can be a tricky wood to work with and MUST be treated with care. When I get my ebony I always assume it is not kiln dried and let it aclimate in my shop for several months before even attempting to turn it. After I turn it round (1.380 appr) I will give it a dip in Resolute and let it hang for 6 months or longer before doing anything else. One thing I haven't heard mentioned is coreing, I core exclusively now and especially for ebony, this cuts down on potential movement greatly, though it must still be treated with care as it will sneak up on you and "do the charleston" without warning. I seal in between cuts, makeing small passes, letting the wood exchange moisture slowly. Take your time and have patience, make small cuts and never trust the wood is kiln dried. As far as cracks or checks when I core If there is one that goes deep the Gorilla glue comes through and has stopped them from continuing. And never rush anyting no matter what a customer wants, as its your reputaion not theres if there is a problem with the finished cue after they receive it. :)
 
I don't have a Delta air cleaner yet. I sanded an ebony sneaky last week and the dust permeated every nook and cranny in the entire room. I won't be sanding on that again until I get a cleaner.
 
KJ Cues said:
Ebony is known for checking during the drying process. Sometimes it's going to happen and there's not much you can do to prevent it if you ever want to get the wood dry. You'll just have to figure on a certain percentage not making the cut.
Ebony is a very difficult wood to dry properly. It takes a long time.
Any wood that is suspect should have the end-grain waxed as has been stated.
I also believe that it makes a difference WHERE you store & age your wood.
I start mine in a building outdoors; my barn. No artificial heat, no A/C, just plain old air drying/seasoning. After a year or two, I'll take it to my shop.
Once there, I store it near the floor where the humidity is likely to be higher.
As cut passes are made over time, I start to move it up the shelves where the air is slightly drier. After a year or two, when it's made it to the top shelf, I feel it's ready to work.

Above all else, get yourself a moisture meter. You need to know where your wood's moisture level is at when the wood comes in. Don't take any seller's word as far as kiln dried. Learn to read your meter and trust it.

One experience I had when buying supposedly kiln-dried Cocobolo was quite a wake-up call. It pegged-out my meter and my meter reads to 22%. The Coco was above that but was supposed to be kiln-dried. Trust no one.
Click to expand...

Back in the shop now after Easter.

Thanks KJ for your feedback.
I have a moisture meeter - one of those cheap $100 ones - and this has hardly
given me any readings at all on most of the wood I have pegged. So I have kind
of just "put it on the shelf" since most of the wood I have is very dry - though
some odd balls still lying waxed.
I pulled it out tonight and had a go on the Gabone and it read between 14-17 % !!!!
The meeter has different settings for different wood types so this was the range
it was varying with.

To compare - I pegged some African Blackwood and some pink ivory and both
gave no reading :scratchhead:

So I'm not sure if some of these dens species makes my cheap meeter go
nuts or if there is a fault in it. The strange thing is that it has a calibration
unit included which always pegs out close to the expected (19%) so this is
the reason why this has been on the shelf since it was bough - it's crap.

There is some real moisture meters around here in the $1000-1200 range
which has put me off, but I would test run one in the shop at some stage.

So I think the bottom line you make is true : Trust no one.

I have had good sources of wood - some have had the wood on pallets for
5-7 years - depending on the species - before they arrived in my end - where
they have been resting for the last year. So I'm not a "quick turner" in any
way and take my time :)

Thanks
Kent
 
Blue Hog ridr said:
I don't have a Delta air cleaner yet. I sanded an ebony sneaky last week and the dust permeated every nook and cranny in the entire room. I won't be sanding on that again until I get a cleaner.
Click to expand...

A very important issue you mention there !!!

When I turned the mentioned pice I used a dust mask and a dust extraction system
which filters down to 0.03 Micron.
Even if the router had a dedicated dust extraction "collar" while spinning - there
was still a fair bit of black dust on my lathe...
Good point :thumbup2:
K
 
Nothing you can do about it. Wood is organic & is always mysterious no matter how it was dried or handled. Get used to losing wood. It happens. All you can do is find another use for it or toss it. That's always the toughest thing for newer builders because buying good wood is very, very expensive and when it goes bad it hurts. It's like throwing money away. But if you are going to be a cuemaker, get used to it. There's no way around it.
 
Newton said:
Back in the shop now after Easter...
So I'm not sure if some of these dens species makes my cheap meeter go
nuts or if there is a fault in it. The strange thing is that it has a calibration
unit included which always pegs out close to the expected (19%) so this is
the reason why this has been on the shelf since it was bough - it's crap.
Click to expand...

Try one of these.
Less than $200, and they work. I have not tried the pinless ones.
Mr H
 
Mr Hoppe said:
Try one of these.
Less than $200, and they work. I have not tried the pinless ones.
Mr H
Click to expand...

I have the DX kit that includes a sliding hammer, different length probes, the wiring for use with the hammer and a poly case that keeps everything in one place. The wood chart that comes with it has very few of the woods that we use but upon contacting them they sent me a chart with many exotic woods listed for settings. I've had this for a number of years and it still is on the original set of batteries. I've always been happy with it. I've thought about getting another, pin less one, for checking moisture on flat stock without punching holes but have never done it. The pin less one can't be used on round dowels as it must make full contact to get true readings.

Dick
 
Last edited:
KJ's moisture meter

KJ Cues said:
Ebony is known for checking during the drying process. Sometimes it's going to happen and there's not much you can do to prevent it if you ever want to get the wood dry. You'll just have to figure on a certain percentage not making the cut.
Ebony is a very difficult wood to dry properly. It takes a long time.
Any wood that is suspect should have the end-grain waxed as has been stated.
I also believe that it makes a difference WHERE you store & age your wood.
I start mine in a building outdoors; my barn. No artificial heat, no A/C, just plain old air drying/seasoning. After a year or two, I'll take it to my shop.
Once there, I store it near the floor where the humidity is likely to be higher.
As cut passes are made over time, I start to move it up the shelves where the air is slightly drier. After a year or two, when it's made it to the top shelf, I feel it's ready to work.

Above all else, get yourself a moisture meter. You need to know where your wood's moisture level is at when the wood comes in. Don't take any seller's word as far as kiln dried. Learn to read your meter and trust it.

One experience I had when buying supposedly kiln-dried Cocobolo was quite a wake-up call. It pegged-out my meter and my meter reads to 22%. The Coco was above that but was supposed to be kiln-dried. Trust no one.
Click to expand...

KJ,
Any recommentation on a moisture meter?
thanks, Bill
 
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