WORLD 10 BALL CHAMPIONSHIP (6-10 Sep 2021), Las Vegas, 9ft, Winner $35K

[sjm]

Well most pool pros would definitely disagree with your opinion but you are surely entitled to one

Yes, I think you are right --- make that I know you are right. And so am I.

This is a case where what the majority of the pros want does not serve the game's best interests. Very few pros want a shot clock, either. Most of them still want rack your own in all situations. Most of them would rather not have a dress code, too. Rest assured, the soft break had many advocates among the pro players back in 2000-02, as well, but event producers learned that the fans didn't like it.

I post as a serious fan who attends countless big events and watches the stream of many other events. Thankfully, many tournament producers and directors have come to understand in full that the fans prefer refereed matches in which the referees rack the balls, and of the four mega-events with highly diverse international fields in our sport (WPC, US Open, China Open, All Japan), only the China Open has the refs rack with the template on a streamed match.

Thankfully for pool's fans, the majority of which watch pool only on the internet stream or TV, it is Matchroom steering pro pool's ship right now, and more than any event producer that I've encountered in my 45 years around pro pool, they are tailoring their pro pool product to giving fans what their market research shows they want.

The template still has its place in our game where rack your own is unavoidable due to the impracticality and cost of having a referee at every table. The template protects players from the rack mechanics and the pattern rackers, who, by my reckoning, number in the hundreds.

It is, no doubt, a debate for the ages. Thanks for sharing your point of view. Your posts are always well informed and insightful.

 

[sjm]

very well deserved win. like chang, kaci plays 10-ball position play in a way that's very hard to question. simple, rational patterns that makes sense. i also like that he doesn't shy away from playing position for banks when that's the most logical choice. he is way older than his years in terms of pool maturity.

Agreed, I think Kaci's position play was exceptional in this event. He's one of the top dozen pattern players in the game today and his speed control is getting better and better. Yesterday, he collected his first WPA sanctioned world championship. I feel strongly it won't be his last.

 

[garczar]

What i took away from this event was a reinforcement of just how much i hate the '10ball goes last' rule. I think you should be able to combo/carom the 10b for a win. Even worse is them being able to pocket the 10b, spot it, and keep shooting. WTF?????

 

[sjm]

What i took away from this event was a reinforcement of just how much i hate the '10ball goes last' rule. I think you should be able to combo/carom the 10b for a win. Even worse is them being able to pocket the 10b, spot it, and keep shooting. WTF?????

Yup, not a fan of ten ball last either. Combos and caroms of the money ball, which can often be played as two way shots, add a lot of creativity, imagination and excitement to the game. Thankfully for this fan, then ball remains a fringe game in our sport and major ten ball events are not very numerous.

 

[Swighey]

I couldn't agree less. If both 9 ball and 10 ball are played professionally, and as world championships, then the games need to be different. Otherwise why play both games?

 

[BlueRaider]

Any chance Matchroom and WPA bring back the World 8 Ball championship?

 

[Swighey]

I

Any chance Matchroom and WPA bring back the World 8 Ball championship?

I don't recall Matchroom sponsoring the WPA World 8 ball - but yes it would be a good thing.

 

[BlueRaider]

I

I don't recall Matchroom sponsoring the WPA World 8 ball - but yes it would be a good thing.

It’s on hiatus since 2012 so that’s what I mean by bringing it back. They could add it to their stable of events. Given that 8 ball IS pool to the vast majority of people globally, a world championship of that game needs to be held annually.

 

[iusedtoberich]

I

I don't recall Matchroom sponsoring the WPA World 8 ball - but yes it would be a good thing.

I'd be happy to never watch an 8 ball game for the rest of my life. Even played by Efren. It doesn't bring in the bangers as viewers (which is the whole reason promoters sometimes try it), and the players almost universally don't like the game.

 

[Swighey]

and the players almost universally don't like the game.

Then why did they play in it. And why are you lying?

 

[jay helfert]

I was shocked he gave it back. I kinda saw it as 50/50 or better making it and at least seeing the two. That situation you gotta go I think. Chua had a great tournament though and came with some great outs that set.

It's easy for people to second guess Chua after seeing Oi make the ball and run out. Now if Oi had messed up on that shot everyone would be saying how smart Chua was to pass it back, right.

 

[realkingcobra]

I

I don't recall Matchroom sponsoring the WPA World 8 ball - but yes it would be a good thing.

Matchroom is a promoter not a sponsor.

 

[mikepage]

[...]

As for this Sullivan Clark character. I'm pretty sure he was the guy playing high dollar sets in the PI the last time I was there nearly two years ago. He was avoiding all the top guys but finding lots of good action with third echelon players and other hustlers from Europe and Australia. He ain't no .694! More like a solid .750.

I'm wondering whether you are conflating him with a different player. Sullivan Clark is 700ish, not 750ish or even 730ish. In the last two years, he has 140 games against Matthew Edwards (733) of which he won 61 and lost 79. There are quite a few more games against known players around the world, and they all tell a similar story.

 

[pwd72s]

Yes, I think you are right --- make that I know you are right. And so am I.

This is a case where what the majority of the pros want does not serve the game's best interests. Very few pros want a shot clock, either. Most of them still want rack your own in all situations. Most of them would rather not have a dress code, too. Rest assured, the soft break had many advocates among the pro players back in 2000-02, as well, but event producers learned that the fans didn't like it.

I post as a serious fan who attends countless big events and watches the stream of many other events. Thankfully, many tournament producers and directors have come to understand in full that the fans prefer refereed matches in which the referees rack the balls, and of the four mega-events with highly diverse international fields in our sport (WPC, US Open, China Open, All Japan), only the China Open has the refs rack with the template on a streamed match.

Thankfully for pool's fans, the majority of which watch pool only on the internet stream or TV, it is Matchroom steering pro pool's ship right now, and more than any event producer that I've encountered in my 45 years around pro pool, they are tailoring their pro pool product to giving fans what their market research shows they want.

The template still has its place in our game where rack your own is unavoidable due to the impracticality and cost of having a referee at every table. The template protects players from the rack mechanics and the pattern rackers, who, by my reckoning, number in the hundreds.

It is, no doubt, a debate for the ages. Thanks for sharing your point of view. Your posts are always well informed and insightful.

One small point of disagreement on Matchroom's market research and giving the fans what they want. I've yet to read or hear any fan saying they love Emily's weird ball colors.

 

[spartan]

Kaci interview

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=154526956850319

 

[spartan]

U heard this from here first
(last 16)
just joking. I have just seen Kaci play some 10ball in person too and even he was struggling i knew he got huge reserve. He did not play even close to his best but still managed to pull it off..
Btw. he ran 5 racks after flip from start vs me going to 6 100$ 2017 already

Hate to break it to you but someone else beat you to it. LOL

 

[jay helfert]

As one of the originators of the Bigfoot Ten Ball Challenge at DCC, I have strong opinions about the game of Ten Ball. We played the Challenge using all the regular 9-Ball Texas Express rules and it seemed to work out pretty well that way. Very few player complaints and the fans enjoyed the matches.

After watching this event, my opinion has changed somewhat. I am now a believer that Ten Ball should have it's own set of rules and not necessarily follow 9-Ball in the way it is played. I think I would still favor a "golden" ten ball rule, where making the ten on the break is a win. Just because it's so hard to do and we rarely see it done. Playing call shot is probably a good idea, since it puts a premium on good play and removes a lot of the luck factor. I'm on the fence about the ten always being the last ball made. I have always been in favor of allowing the two way shot, but seeing how the matches played out here, my opinion may be shifting. Ten ball last takes away all the situations where the ten sets up for an easy billiard or combo after the break shot, getting rid of all these "gift" games. Now you have to work your way through each rack to win the game.

What I saw here were a lot of safety battles that tested the skills of these great players. Whether to kick or jump also came into play quite often. In today's era the top players are often laying down lock up safeties that take away the jump shot and force their opponent to kick at the ball.

All and all I liked what I saw with the rules being used. Every match was a test of the complete skill set of each player. One thing that I question is the use of the 30 second shot clock for the TV table only. I think promoters need to bite the bullet and put a shot clock on all tables. Some matches were intolerably long without it, with players tanking for two to three minutes on shot after shot. Shades of Straight Pool and we don't need another dose of that.

 

[jay helfert]

One small point of disagreement on Matchroom's market research and giving the fans what they want. I've yet to read or hear any fan saying they love Emily's weird ball colors.

Pedator had the CORRECT ball colors on their new sets used here, and no one complained . It was easy for the fans to follow the game and equally easy for those doing commentary. Our brains and eyes are conditioned to these colors for pool balls (even for so called non players) and this should be taken into consideration by tournament promoters. Predator gets it and props to them for that.

Did I tell you how much I loved their new lights. They illuminate the table perfectly and best of all they are easy on the eyes with no glare. They will be expensive I'm sure (I've heard close to a grand), but they are a welcome advancement imo. The new Predator triangles look cool but may need a little tweaking to get them right. Players were having trouble putting down a tight rack. This can be fixed I'm sure.

I like what Predator is doing here with new tournaments and new equipment. They are really stepping up to the plate to grow this game!

 

[sjm]

One small point of disagreement on Matchroom's market research and giving the fans what they want. I've yet to read or hear any fan saying they love Emily's weird ball colors.

Yes, that's a good point. I suspect that they are under the mistaken impression that most fans don't care about the ball colors.

 

[sjm]

As one of the originators of the Bigfoot Ten Ball Challenge at DCC, I have strong opinions about the game of Ten Ball. We played the Challenge using all the regular 9-Ball Texas Express rules and it seemed to work out pretty well that way. Very few player complaints and the fans enjoyed the matches.

After watching this event, my opinion has changed somewhat. I am now a believer that Ten Ball should have it's own set of rules and not necessarily follow 9-Ball in the way it is played. I think I would still favor a "golden" ten ball rule, where making the ten on the break is a win. Just because it's so hard to do and we rarely see it done. Playing call shot is probably a good idea, since it puts a premium on good play and removes a lot of the luck factor. I'm on the fence about the ten always being the last ball made. I have always been in favor of allowing the two way shot, but seeing how the matches played out here, my opinion may be shifting. Ten ball last takes away all the situations where the ten sets up for an easy billiard or combo after the break shot, getting rid of all these "gift" games. Now you have to work your way through each rack to win the game.

What I saw here were a lot of safety battles that tested the skills of these great players. Whether to kick or jump also came into play quite often. In today's era the top players are often laying down lock up safeties that take away the jump shot and force their opponent to kick at the ball.

All and all I liked what I saw with the rules being used. Every match was a test of the complete skill set of each player. One thing that I question is the use of the 30 second shot clock for the TV table only. I think promoters need to bite the bullet and put a shot clock on all tables. Some matches were intolerably long without it, with players tanking for two to three minutes on shot after shot. Shades of Straight Pool and we don't need another dose of that.

Know where your coming from, Jay, and you've made your point extremely well.

As it is and probably always will be a fringe game in pro events, there's not too much harm done if ten ball rules look ridiculous to the fans, who play rotation games but are used to a) no call-shot, b) money ball counts as long as there is a good hit on the lowest numbered ball, and c) golden breaks count. The absence of these features of ten ball as played this past week are a turn off for this fan, but nobody can argue that this version of ten ball is anything less than a great test of skill at pro level.

Every rule change that makes the game less recognizable to its current and potential fan base slightly disenfranchises those fans and is, therefore, as I see it, an impediment to popularizing and growing our sport.