World 10 Ball Silence
- Thread starter pro9dg
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bandido said:
so you don't know it the other Filipinos are paid yet? Can't you call "Buddy" tomorrow and ask him? If you do, please say hi from me. Hope he will not get stiffed, I know he needs that money very, very much...
The sad part about these players on their side is that they think that they have to play by RAYA rules to get paid or be nominated to international tournaments as seeded country representatives. Had I not explained the math to Pulpul's manager and if he wasn't being pressured by creditors for the advances he made against Pulpul's prize money then he wouldn't have said a word about what's happening. Why? He was hoping that Pulpol will be sent to the Bali Open as a seeded player nominated by the BSCP as was hinted by Yen. He, Pulpul, was also hinted as being a seeded player in the supposedly upcoming 2009 PPT. Now do you see how they use their "affiliation power"?Roy Steffensen said:
Those Filipino Players, most likely, won't receive a centavo because of the monthly allowances and trip expenses advanced to them. Unlike in BMPAP, these players on their side of the fence are required to pay back all monies as they are advances and not salaries or monthly stipend.
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Darren, Niels, Wu and Jasmin have not been paid and verified by some posters above, what is wrong with the organizer of WTBC?
I do hope that they're doing payment by country, and hopefully our new champion get paid soon.
I do hope that they're doing payment by country, and hopefully our new champion get paid soon.
did say you were making excuses
My only point was if they are short on funds they should start pay outs with first palce and work themselves backwards. Even if less people get paid at least the winner got paid. Wasn't accusing you of making excuses.
memikey said:Ok I'll be honest.........I've no idea what that means
If we are going into what "should" have happened about payments and what should happen now there could be a lot more said.....but "shoulds" are not what was being discussed nor were any "excuses" whatsoever being made.
What was being questioned by Daz and discussed was not what should happen but WHY the payments made so far might be of this nature and in that context what was posted were simply a few suggestions as to what potentially might be going on now, sticking to potentially positive ones as unfortunately we all already know only too well what the negative view of what might be going on is.
If you want to shoot off at a tangent and discuss "should have happeneds etc" that's fine but please don't go pinning a "making excuses" label on me by taking comments out of context in the course of you changing the subject to that.
God forbid that it comes to it but if there were a shortfall in the total prize fund at the end of the day what "should" happen while that is being sorted out legally isn't necessarily what you have put forward. Many would say that your suggestion is completely unfair and that the fairest method would have been to pay each money winner the same percentage of the prize money which they won as the available total prize money bears to the total published prize money. Let's hope it doesn't come to that anyway.
The fact that those already paid got 100% suggests one of two things........everyone is going to get 100% or nobody else other than those already paid is going to get anything, with the former surely being the favourite at the moment.
My only point was if they are short on funds they should start pay outs with first palce and work themselves backwards. Even if less people get paid at least the winner got paid. Wasn't accusing you of making excuses.
AzHousePro said:
Here's your explanation Mike. All of which can be found in my earlier posts.
It cost more than 50Million Pesos at the $=P exchange back then and it happened only because loans were taken out against Yen's House (around 16M Pesos), loan against the San Miguel contract balance (7M Pesos) and advance from PAGCOR/Dept of Tourism 3rd year involvement in the WPC(2008WPC) which was around 10M. Pro9Dg even mentioned the delayed payment of RAYA to Matchroom in one of his posts (...money didn't come in 'til 3 days before the finals).AzHousePro said:
It had to happen to bring in advertisers money (which fell short because of the absence of the above players) to be able to pay the earlier loans. Now we have this dilemma regarding prize monies not getting paid on time , at the same time or not at all. Earlier loans (house collateralized and the PAGCOR advance that was deducted to this year's PAGCOR involvement) are due and requires settlement or forfeit or cause a bigger Senate and/or Ombudsman Investigation. Don't forget too that these sponsorships were facilitated and these require a 15% commission for the facilitator. Again added expense against the WTBC operating and prize money funds. All these info are in my earlier posts here.AzHousePro said:
See above. It had to happen but not 'til the last minute did they indicate such sponsors in their website. There weren't enough new sponsors participation too to help cover the event. San Miguel, too, only contributed a very minor amount. Remember when they announced that San Miguel joined in? It was already when the tournament was on-going and that means that their involvement was under 2M because they won't anymore get the commensurate media values at that late a stage. You can even tell from the size of their logo and 6th from the top billing that they're a minor sponsor http://www.worldtenball.com/WTBC_OfficialPartners.html. Everybody below SMART are most likely Exchange Deals(X-Deals) with no Money involved just services or goods.AzHousePro said:
Ask the other players who can't be as vocal as the Americans!AzHousePro said:
With knowledge of all the above, do you think that the BMPAP should still have joined such an event? Was the boycott done malisciously or with just reasons? Safeguarding our members from undue mental, physical and financial strain is one of our main responsibilities. And these we tried to extend, safeguarding, to other players.
So, are we in denial? I doubt it for we are aware of the inner, more sensitive info that you guys aren't. Some of our members were the ones approached for the loans, brought along to help secure the loans (fortunately they didn't agree to act as guarantors unlike Mr. Chua),.......etc. Somebody like Efren who stays humble after all the accolades bestowed gets our undying support and not somebody getting swell-headed after getting a pool magazine's "Man of the Year" Award.
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I truly feel for you Daz. You have always been a good sport and a gentleman in or out of tournaments. You truly are a Champion in my book.dynamite said:strange why phillies and states been paid but nobody else..
am pretty sure all euro players recieved nothing as of yet
If you need assistance just PM me. If it comes to a point where you need the best legal representation for this please don't hesitate. You need somebody who is familiar with all that has happened that led to this. This may not be a simple case of estafa as it may be as serious as a "conspiracy to defraud" and pre-meditated.
For starters, all you affected players need to voice out your displeasure in the forums, write and send them a registered letter, etc. These things may help you.
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AnitoKid said:Pardon my OT, friends:
I know this is a figure of speech and all,
but i said to myself, "What if i take it literally?"
I smiled at the thought! And I kid you not!
Yeah me too i pictured him riding out of town on that Donkey with trusty Deno riding beside him on a Jackass-A tear comes to Deno's eye when they pass a tree where he first baked cookies. Kevin's turkey neck flapping in the moonlight. It's beautiful.:smile:
Please ask Darren to PM me (or call me if he is still in the states) tomorrow, if he does not have payment.
Mike
Mike
Roy Steffensen said:
Don't want to get too deep into this one, but I believe you are right about players from the Philippines having to be sent as part of the BSCP group of players in order to play in international WPA events.
That is kind of the way that whole thing works.
Mike
That is kind of the way that whole thing works.
Mike
bandido said:
AzHousePro said:
Bingo Mike!!! That is kind of the way the whole thing works, and that is what BSCP is using to their favor.
1] To start with, it was BSCP's practice to abuse player allocation to fill quotas for int'l tournaments - among other things.
2] Players and managers complained to no avail.
3] Players and managers put up BMPAP.
4] BSCP did not reform despite complaints and bolting out of players. They were negatively reactive to complaints.
5] BMPAP boycotted all Makabenta-related events. Unfortunately WTB was one of them.
6] BSCP continues to abuse player allocation.
7] BMPAP will lead petition to expel BSCP as an NSA very soon.
We wanted BSCP to reform, or WPA to straighten them out, but we were not heard. Now that BSCP has been proven to hurt the sport in this late (and potential non-payment) issue, we want BSCP out as an NSA, but the intention is not to take over a new National Sport Association. We have been patient with BSCP in wanting them to reform, but it seems that it is not possible.
BSCP has had all the chances to listen to complaints, but their interest in the Raya partnership as a profitable promotions competitor to what BMPAP evolved into left them with hitting BMPAP head-on.
Some of you may have found that our complaints were too harsh in the forums; especially at the start when we truly felt like underdogs. In behalf of BMPAP, I apologize for the necessity to have brought out the complaints in the manner that we had done so.
The WTBC is BSCP's and Raya's own doing. We tried to warn the people but we were not appreciated by some. Until now, we are still being called mudslingers. Some even endorsed WTB and guaranteed that it was in good order. These people were not in the know and they did not even try to find out the inside information that made us warn people. They were in Manila, but the smell of succes and green bucks coming out from the organizer's mouth spelled things differently hence, there was no need to investigate anymore.
So for those who cannot stand our so called "I told you so" attitude, please excuse us but we are entitled to it.
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I don't think that you realize that the BSCP is tasked BY THE PHILIPPINE GOVERNMENT to maintain fairness in determining counrtry representation. BSCP receives funds from TAXPAYERS MONEY unlike your BCA. That is the BIG DIFFERENCE Mike. So please understand this difference before making your statements.AzHousePro said:
A new excuse surfaced
In a letter to Lee Chenman of Hong Kong as posted in the Matchroom Forums.
LOL! They really think that people are that stupid?!
From http://www.chanrobles.com/republicactno9194.html
Here's what the Philippine Anti-Money Laundering law says:
"(b) 'Covered transaction' is a transaction in cash or other equivalent monetary instrument involving a total amount in excess of Five hundred thousand pesos (P500,000.00) within one (1) banking day."
Lee Chenman's prize money doesn't exceed this.
Who I think that this law may apply to are Darren, Wu and Niels. For the amount of prize money that they're getting what's the price of a round trip plane fare? They can supposedly receive payment, even if it's personally picked up in cash at the RAYA office now, right? Or they can authorize a friend or known entity here to pick-up their cash for them and wire it in increments or hold on to the excess 'til they fly in for an upcoming tournament.
What I anticipate coming to Daz, Wu and Niels here is a letter telling them about the said anti money laundering law and that their prize monies need to be sent in increments for such and such time.
Come and pick it up in cash if it is said to be available Daz, Wu and Niels.
In a letter to Lee Chenman of Hong Kong as posted in the Matchroom Forums.
LOL! They really think that people are that stupid?!
From http://www.chanrobles.com/republicactno9194.html
Here's what the Philippine Anti-Money Laundering law says:
"(b) 'Covered transaction' is a transaction in cash or other equivalent monetary instrument involving a total amount in excess of Five hundred thousand pesos (P500,000.00) within one (1) banking day."
Lee Chenman's prize money doesn't exceed this.
Who I think that this law may apply to are Darren, Wu and Niels. For the amount of prize money that they're getting what's the price of a round trip plane fare? They can supposedly receive payment, even if it's personally picked up in cash at the RAYA office now, right? Or they can authorize a friend or known entity here to pick-up their cash for them and wire it in increments or hold on to the excess 'til they fly in for an upcoming tournament.
What I anticipate coming to Daz, Wu and Niels here is a letter telling them about the said anti money laundering law and that their prize monies need to be sent in increments for such and such time.
Come and pick it up in cash if it is said to be available Daz, Wu and Niels.
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Edwin, regarding law suits, I mentioned here that they have to first write Raya using registered mail to ask for payment and state that if not paid within so many days, they will sue. A lawyer representative here can write that letter in their behalf.
If in Boxing, people can get away with not settling obligations, not in Billiards. Not paying in Boxing concerns one boxer and his manager... plus the venue. Big mistake in promising to pay 75 people $400,000!
BMPAP will be there to hound these guys or assist the foreigners in seeking legal help if they don't pay up. That, we offer to our pro pool friends to show good faith that BMPAP is not like Raya despite both being Filipino groups. BMPAP has a stake here when it comes to national reputation. PM Edwin or Sputnik. If they pay up which they already ought to have, then this post can be disregarded.
Edwin is right. If they cannot pay Appleton now, it is highly probable that they currently have less than $100,000. If they are yet to source the balance, they are scandalously too relaxed -- recently despicably announcing taking 3 players to Reno (with Makabenta and three media men) and 2 players to Korea which will easily cost $9,000 in plane fare alone. Who among the unpaid can make use of that amount?
If in Boxing, people can get away with not settling obligations, not in Billiards. Not paying in Boxing concerns one boxer and his manager... plus the venue. Big mistake in promising to pay 75 people $400,000!
BMPAP will be there to hound these guys or assist the foreigners in seeking legal help if they don't pay up. That, we offer to our pro pool friends to show good faith that BMPAP is not like Raya despite both being Filipino groups. BMPAP has a stake here when it comes to national reputation. PM Edwin or Sputnik. If they pay up which they already ought to have, then this post can be disregarded.
Edwin is right. If they cannot pay Appleton now, it is highly probable that they currently have less than $100,000. If they are yet to source the balance, they are scandalously too relaxed -- recently despicably announcing taking 3 players to Reno (with Makabenta and three media men) and 2 players to Korea which will easily cost $9,000 in plane fare alone. Who among the unpaid can make use of that amount?
Money laundering does not limit Telegraphic Transfers. Besides, there are ways around it by sending in amounts of less than $10,000.00 IF it is a personal transaction. Business transactions allow TTs of huge amounts. All they will ask for is a written and signed reason why such big amount is being wired. No problem if it is legitimate.
What compounds the problem of Raya is the Peso-Dollar exchange rate. When the WTB was held, 38 Pesos could buy an American dollar. Today, $1USD is over P50. I purchased USD last week at P50.55/$1USD. That's an easy 31% additional cost!
Anti-Money Laundering is Baloney. How the hell did the Americans get their money right away? Hong Kong is more liberal in transfers, it being a financial center like Singapore. They are stricter in the USA because of tracking terrorist funds. At the most, it will delay a transaction by a day or two.
Tomorrow, a radical journalist will start investigating on live radio about this issue. He said that he will go all out in exposing this if his investigations prove that things have to be exposed in his TV program.
What compounds the problem of Raya is the Peso-Dollar exchange rate. When the WTB was held, 38 Pesos could buy an American dollar. Today, $1USD is over P50. I purchased USD last week at P50.55/$1USD. That's an easy 31% additional cost!
Anti-Money Laundering is Baloney. How the hell did the Americans get their money right away? Hong Kong is more liberal in transfers, it being a financial center like Singapore. They are stricter in the USA because of tracking terrorist funds. At the most, it will delay a transaction by a day or two.
Tomorrow, a radical journalist will start investigating on live radio about this issue. He said that he will go all out in exposing this if his investigations prove that things have to be exposed in his TV program.