World 10 Ball Silence

pro9dg said:
64+64+36+48+40+15+25+40+100=432 thousand
Assuming one lot of 40 is a misprint we are left with 392 not 400 thousand.
A 2% deduction for ???

or a 32,000 bonus?
Yeah. I was wondering about that last four prize that's bigger than the 4th Placer's. I wonder who the idiot is that made up this breakdown.

Don't take this seriously now:
Matbe the 100k, 40k,25k and 15k were all a hoax and the top4 finishers are just going to get 20k each.
 
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pro9dg said:
.

The US currently hold 25% of the seats - the lovely Fran Crimi and the elusive Ed Smith. They have both been nominated by the BCA. So that answers one of your questions.

Why do you say that Ed is elusive?

Actually the appointment of Ed Smith was a surprise to me, he still does some refereeing in the USA but he actually lives not too far from me in southern Spain.

We use his services as a ref. on our major tournaments.
 
Peter@CEP said:
Why do you say that Ed is elusive?

Actually the appointment of Ed Smith was a surprise to me, he still does some refereeing in the USA but he actually lives not too far from me in southern Spain.

We use his services as a ref. on our major tournaments.

I know Pete, you introduced him to me in Lugo last year.

I meant elusive to the BCA because he is in Spain.
 
pro9dg said:
I know Pete, you introduced him to me in Lugo last year.

I meant elusive to the BCA because he is in Spain.


I forgot, when you get old, the memory goes, you should know Doug!!!
 
pro9dg said:
64+64+36+48+40+15+25+40+100=432 thousand
Assuming one lot of 40 is a misprint we are left with 392 not 400 thousand.
A 2% deduction for ???

or a 32,000 bonus?
I think the last 96's total pay out should have been 32k, instead of 64k, based on 1k x 32 players, a typo error, I guess.
 
JB Cases said:
I still don't understand how the BSCP works? Is Yen's position an elected or appointed one? Is the BSCP a private organization or a government funded one. Who are the constituents of the BSCP?

So how is the BSCP organized? Why can't the people who make up the BSCP oust the leadership? Are there bylaws that govern such situations? It seems to me that with such aggregious allegations then there ought to be some provision for the members of the BSCP to change the leadership.

Inquiring minds want to know and to fan the flames :-)

Okay, you want to know....

Let's start with WPA. WPA has a regional rep APBU where BSCP is a country member of. WPA deals with country representatives.

In the Philippines, BSCP is under the Philippine Sports Commission (PSC), as well as the other National Sports Associations like the Philippine Track & Field Association. The PSC is under the Philippine Olympic Committee (POC). Both POC and PSC are amateur organizations as well as all the NSAs under them.

It is in the constitution of the PSC that the NSAs like BSCP hold annual elections, among other laws that BSCP does not follow. The NSAs also have to be registered in the Securities and Exchange Commission to have a legal personality.

BSCP enjoys accreditation from both the PSC and the WPA. Accreditation from the WPA includes the assignment of players in country quotas that are sent out through APBU for international WPA sanctioned tournaments.

BSCP is not registered in the SEC. Instead, they are using the by-laws and constitution of an association named Billiards & Snooker Association Inc. Nevertheless, the PSC had recognized BSCP since 1987 and allows BSCP to function as an NSA and APBU is okay with that slip.

In 2006, by virtue of some hocus pocus, new faces were put in BSCP. Obviously, some computations on table napkins with prospects of the WPC facilitated the new seats in BSCP. Makabenta became Chairman of BSCP and hence declared Raya Sports (of which he is president of) as a partner who handles tournament productions.

So through the partnership with Raya, BSCP brought in the two WPCs in 2006 and 2007. In the meantime, the players and the managers felt that they were not being dealt with fairly in international tournament quota slots. The arrogance of BSCP climaxed when they "banned" Alex from Guinness for sharking and right away threw one of their players into the tour.

The players and managers brought up their grievances to no avail. The ultimate straw was when the POC said that they will not look good if the issues are brought out, so we should better go back to BSCP and mend things.

Their constituents (players and managers) bolted out and put up a professional association called BMPAP. But even when being professionals automatically took BMPAP out of BSCP's mandate as an NSA, BSCP still had the accreditations and the quotas of WPA.

Then BMPAP started questioning the legitimacy of BSCP. Also questioned were the unliquidated funds from the government that financed the two WPCs.

The reaction of BSCP was to initiate black propaganda via local text broadcasts, newspaper releases, internet columns, and in internet forums. BMPAP fought back through internet forums and through court cases.

From then on, BMPAP had taken on the partnership of BSCP and Raya head on, pitting tournaments to compete with one another.

BMPAP has the players and BSCP/Raya has the accreditation, and the only time that BMPAP will cooperate and lend its players to BSCP is when Makabenta leaves BSCP and takes the Raya partnership with him.

Rats migrate though ships from port to port. It seems that some rats had migrated from sport to sport. I believe that an investigative expose on TV is in the making so that should be a source of information. It will be posted.
 
sputnik said:
Okay, you want to know.....

If I had it on available I'd gladly pay out the missing prize funds myself own money just so I'd never have to read a post like that again.

All those acronyms are making my eyes bleed into my popcorn. ;-)
 
pro9dg said:
The Board of the WPA is currently 8 strong. They are by and large a pretty amenable bunch.

The US currently hold 25% of the seats - the lovely Fran Crimi and the elusive Ed Smith. They have both been nominated by the BCA. So that answers one of your questions.

Asia have two spots - the wondrous Mr Tu and Kazuo Fujima (currently based in the Middle East)

The European contingent consists of Gre Leenders and Thomas Overbeck and Peter Hawley (good bloke!) weighs in for the African nations.

Finally there is Ian Anderson, a former professional snooker player who represented Australia in Snooker's World Cup many moons ago.
He holds the position of President which I believe is unsalaried.
Ian is a good man but he has gone out on a limb with this situation.
I hope that it works out for him.
John, I hope that this helps

All positions within WPA are without salary. It works that way for all WPA member federations.
 
sputnik said:
Monski, obviously you are not taking sides here. Neutrality between parties is different from neutrality between issues. Sometimes neutrality between issues is apathy. Many times, the unwillingness of the heart makes the mind lazy.

I am not neutral with regard to issues. I speak my mind out about the issue and how imo it should be handled. I do understand that you can also be so immersed in an issue that the approach to the matter becomes to confrontational with too much emotion. Would either side want to be pictured as an impulsive or emotional group regardless of whatever happens?

sputnik said:
From the time you and I met in 2002 (when Edwin and I were humbly soliciting corporate donations for players to join tournaments abroad), we had been translating the players' problems into concrete solutions. You witnessed one of our projects when Edwin and I, as plain pool fans, begged for donations from Ed De Guzman's colleagues. Edwin and I have gone a long way for us just to sit down and watch a small-time boxing promoter turn the pool situation in the Philippines upside-down in a short period of two years. It is not bitterness, my friend. It is conviction.

If I recall it correctly, Edwin mentioned the project to me. Then I talked it over with my friend and we organized the event with Ronnie and Dennis coming over. There was very little time when Edwin talked to me about it. But I worked to get it done through Eddieboy. We raised over 300,000 pesos in just one night back then. And I even helped Edwin when he was working out how the money was used. So I'm all for conviction. And whether you know it or not I'm still helping players on both camps with their concerns. But those are more of their personal concerns and not related to this BMPAP/Raya/BSCP controversy.

sputnik said:
Would you suggest that the two Philippine TV station rivals GMA and ABS-CBN refrain from the constant issues they throw at each other? In billiards, this is Raya and BMPAP. Both parties are engaged in the production of tournaments.

If the issues are legitimate, they should pursue it. But you must also admit that when it seemed that it was going the way of "mud slinging" both networked toned down to take a more objective and diplomatic approach. Why? Because the viewing public did not like it turning into a "showbiz" circus. B

sputnik said:
Now, if MTRCB had ABS-CBN president Charo Santos-Concio simultaneously functioning as its chairman, would GMA 7 take that sitting down? More so, if in that scenario, Charo Santos-Concio used her MTRCB chairmanship to get things in favor of ABS-CBN while claiming that there is no conflict of interest, you think GMA-7 will not stop until MTRCB is cleared of bias?

MTRCB is into ratings and classification, maybe even censorship (i'm not sure) to protect public interest as set in the constitution. For the BSCP conflict of interest issue, my guideline would be to look into the letter and intent of guidelines on who can be part of the BSCP board. If BSCP is a National Sports Association, it seems logical that stake holders in the sport should be part of it.

sputnik said:
To sweep this situation under the rug and call it bitterness is apathy.

When JB mentioned bitterness I read it to mean how explanations are being put into writing. This tells me that the people might be into things beyond the issues because its becoming too emotional.

sputnik said:
The centerpiece of the issues is Yen Makabenta and everything that follows becomes a personality issue... not personal. Yen Makabenta is a personality in BSCP, and being a public personality (serving a public position) subjects him to scrutiny. And if there is reason for scrutiny, it does not necessarily equate to bitterness.

Agree but we need to be fair also to people we scrutinize. I did not feel ok when Obama said "You can put lipstick on a pig..." If the issue is conflict of interest, then what needs to be remedied is how the system promotes it. Assuming YM will resign or will be booted out of office, what's to stop the next person to have the same conflict? Hence the system within BSCP and by-laws of the NSA is the one that needs to be addressed primarily.

sputnik said:
Maybe to the people apathetic to this situation, the posts in the forums have gone out of hand. But to the ones fighting for and on behalf of fairness.... whatever it takes! Many in BMPAP are fighting for fairness because they are being dealt with unfairly. I, for one, am fighting for fairness - period. Edwin will kill for it!

I have a high respect for you Martin and I consider myself your friend but things imo gotta be toned down. "Kill for it"? I would have preferred "Die for it." Sounds a bit better imo. I hope you can appreciate where I'm coming from.
 
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Too bad you didn't see all the text messages sent out against me. And for what? All I did was question a report in a newspaper article concerning 10M Pesos provided to the BSCP by the PSC. They could have just answered the question instead of throwing all those cuss words and badmouthing that a lot of people received through their cellular phone messaging network. They try to hurt me with that which just tells me that the facts that I put out about them affects them. The situation kind of turned funny 'coz their text messging, forum responses/releases and press release contents became a gage of how true my information about them were.

15 hours 5 minutes and counting to 8am Monday morning Philippines.
 
juegabillar said:
All positions within WPA are without salary. It works that way for all WPA member federations.

They all are earning money from the game (and deservedly so) with the exception of Ian Anderson.

Gre - Jointly with David Morris runs the Euro Tour
Thomas - club owner in Germany
Fran - Pro Player and Master Coach
Ed - Referee
Kazuo - National Coach of Qatar
Mr Tu - Ladies World Championship Promoter
Peter - Table Supplier

That is a pretty wide spectrum of experience
 
sputnik said:
Okay, you want to know....

Let's start with WPA. WPA has a regional rep APBU where BSCP is a country member of. WPA deals with country representatives.

In the Philippines, BSCP is under the Philippine Sports Commission (PSC), as well as the other National Sports Associations like the Philippine Track & Field Association. The PSC is under the Philippine Olympic Committee (POC). Both POC and PSC are amateur organizations as well as all the NSAs under them.

It is in the constitution of the PSC that the NSAs like BSCP hold annual elections, among other laws that BSCP does not follow. The NSAs also have to be registered in the Securities and Exchange Commission to have a legal personality.

The SEC? As in the stock market? In the USA the SEC governs the trading of stocks and securities for publicly traded companies. What does this sort of body have to do with a non-profit (I am assuming that the BSCP is a non-profit organization) National Sports Association.

BSCP enjoys accreditation from both the PSC and the WPA. Accreditation from the WPA includes the assignment of players in country quotas that are sent out through APBU for international WPA sanctioned tournaments.

BSCP is not registered in the SEC. Instead, they are using the by-laws and constitution of an association named Billiards & Snooker Association Inc. Nevertheless, the PSC had recognized BSCP since 1987 and allows BSCP to function as an NSA and APBU is okay with that slip.

Is is the APBU's job to decipher Philippine law in regards to how their member organization is structured? It seems to me that the APBU only has to see to it that a member organization meets the criteria they set for inclusion. What that criteria is is unknown to me. However if the BSCP has been around since 1987 that shows a certain amount of longevity.



In 2006, by virtue of some hocus pocus, new faces were put in BSCP. Obviously, some computations on table napkins with prospects of the WPC facilitated the new seats in BSCP. Makabenta became Chairman of BSCP and hence declared Raya Sports (of which he is president of) as a partner who handles tournament productions.

This, if true, has got to be illegal and is an obvious conflict of interest. However it's not entirely without precedent as Mr. Tu is/was the president of the Taiwanese association when his promotion company put on several WPA sanctioned World Championships. Of course this goes back to my original question of how the officers of the BSCP are elected? Who votes, who counts the votes????


So through the partnership with Raya, BSCP brought in the two WPCs in 2006 and 2007. In the meantime, the players and the managers felt that they were not being dealt with fairly in international tournament quota slots. The arrogance of BSCP climaxed when they "banned" Alex from Guinness for sharking and right away threw one of their players into the tour.

Again, who are the members of the BSCP and how do they become members? Do they fill out a form and pay dues? Does each member have a vote, are their regional sections that send representatives to the national organization? You say players and "managers" were upset. Are the managers members of the BSCP? Is there a national ranking list of players held by the BSCP? How does the BSCP allocate the spots it is granted?

When you say that the BSCP threw one of "their" players into the tour what do you mean? Aren't all of the players in the Philippines members of the BSCP? Does Raya Sports have a "stable" of players that they manage? Does the BSCP manage any players? Or do you mean a player that does what the BSCP tells them to do without question?


The players and managers brought up their grievances to no avail. The ultimate straw was when the POC said that they will not look good if the issues are brought out, so we should better go back to BSCP and mend things.

Ok. Well it's out now and what is the POC doing about it?


Their constituents (players and managers) bolted out and put up a professional association called BMPAP. But even when being professionals automatically took BMPAP out of BSCP's mandate as an NSA, BSCP still had the accreditations and the quotas of WPA.

Then BMPAP started questioning the legitimacy of BSCP. Also questioned were the unliquidated funds from the government that financed the two WPCs.

The reaction of BSCP was to initiate black propaganda via local text broadcasts, newspaper releases, internet columns, and in internet forums. BMPAP fought back through internet forums and through court cases.

All right. So what is the status of the court cases? A lot of people try to fight in the court of public opinion but at the end of the day you are simply an minor item of news in people's otherwise busy lives. It seems to me that if you really want the WPA and APBU spots then those are the organizations that you must bring to your side, by virtue of changing the BSCP to include your group equally, or by replacing them. All this anti-BSCP vitriol carried out by you in the public eye is meaningless because until something is changed legally it's all simply a case of public fighting over an issue that the public is powerless to effect any change over.


From then on, BMPAP had taken on the partnership of BSCP and Raya head on, pitting tournaments to compete with one another.

Yes, this seems to be the formula that various groups follow worldwide. The losers are the players who have to choose sides and the tournaments which end up with less players and the taint of being not fully representative of the sport.


BMPAP has the players and BSCP/Raya has the accreditation, and the only time that BMPAP will cooperate and lend its players to BSCP is when Makabenta leaves BSCP and takes the Raya partnership with him.

Really? What about the people in the BSCP who allowed Yen to acquire this postion? I still don't understand the voting structure of the BSCP? Why can't you simply call for a vote? If you have the majority of players then you have the majority of the votes don't you? Or does the BMPAP only represent a handful of the active members of the BSCP? Do you not have the votes to oust Yen and his cohorts?

There is a lot to be said for taking a stand. I am the first person that thinks you should take a stand for what you believe in. I also tend to think that in this situation a real paper trail is needed to include your petitions to the APBU and the WPA listing your grievances among other things. Publicly insulting the WPA for aligning themselves with a national member organization that is under their continental member's umbrella is definitely not the way forward in my opinion.

The BSCP has stood since 1987. It is the recognized member of the APBU and by extension the WPA. If the organization is sour now then that is NOT the fault of the APBU or the WPA. They can only deal with the organization that they know not the one they don't. By exposing the issues within the BSCP you are doing the right thing. Public mudslinging however only dirties the waters and hinders clarity.

Lay out the facts that you can prove, without the innuendo and speculation on motivation, without the insults, and those facts will bring you justice.
 
pro9dg said:
All this will be academic as Raya will gain credibility if they pay up today.



It's now 3:46 pm, Monday, Manila time, but I still hear crickets chirping...
 
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pro9dg said:
All this will be academic as Raya will gain credibility if they pay up today.


they could had gained that a week ago. hope that those top finishers receive their prize money and I hope they don't serve PulPul last by virtue of him being a Filipino. we dont want formulate Filipinos as being hospitable to foreigners only, dont we?
 
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