World 10 Ball Silence

[bandido]

:grin:

Jay paid one player he said and Jay was reimbursed right away with no problems, the player went 2 and out I think and got $950.

First question is why did Jay assume the responsibility of the organizer here? For lack of better words to use I'd say that Jay's action is a result of a blackmail(Jay said in a thread:"I will write as I see it"). I guess "humble pie" = to clout within the WTBC. We probably should've assigned an AzB poster per player to guarantee immediate payment for each and every single one of the players

Now if every player who didnt make it to the single elimination stage(round 4 i think) that adds up to alot of $$$, like $60,000 so atleast that was paid,

That we have no info about so to this date only Johnny has been paid through Jay Helfert who then acted as the organizer's prize money payer-upper or collector for JA. Ever hear from any of the tail-enders get paid yet?

I believe the jury is out til Oct 21, the delay is understandable as they need time to collect $$$ and reconcile the books.

Prize Money pay-out shouldn't depend on collectibles. If this is what will be followed then WTBC payouts won't be until 45-60 days from conclusion of the tournament because that's the settlement schedule here with sponsoring corporations. That is if all media values agreed upon were satisfied by the promoters. In short, the sponsoring corporation will first do a research and review the whole production to see if they got their money's worth, of advertisments, based on the agreement.

I was told that ESPN Malaysia only aired the semi and the finals and this doesn't jive with the airing schedule(see table below or click on the link) advertised in the WTBC website. http://www.worldtenball.com/WTBC_TVCoverage.html So just with this, the media values for corporate sponsors' satisfaction came up short.

INTERNATIONAL BROADCAST

• ESPN Star Sports Channell
ESPN Asia
ESPN Malaysia
ESPN China
ESPN Hong Kong
Star Sports Taiwan
29 September – 05 October 2008 – Starts 3:00 PM (Manila Time)


Secondly, if it's about "reconciling books" then the question arises as to how long does it take to put monetary values less 5% next to the finishers names? This takes less than an hour and funds released if the Prize Money is available.

So I'm not passing judgement, lso because there is so much disdane about this group and slanderous comments have little validity.:grin: big fancy words day

Just based on the above, there are other factors too, there really is a reason for the BIG question mark(?).

 

[SpiderWebComm]

I'm kind of glad the wpa is dogging this payment thing. I couldn't stand their cocky talk about not recognizing past world champions who won their events pre-wpa. That line made me sick to read - reminded me of IPT cockiness. Now it looks like they have S____ on their face. I bet the past champions don't recognize current sanctioning bodies who DON'T PAY. Go figure.

 

[bandido]

Days perhaps Jerry not weeks. As long as it takes Sharron to get back to Matchroom HQ

Well Doug, it takes 12 days to get back to the RAYA office from the PICC! Must be the Manila traffic!:rotflmao1: Plus 2 days to do the math and you get the 2 weeks as promised.

 

[kano]

not really

You must have attended different WPC's than I. The past WPC's payouts have been done by wire transfer after the event just as Raya is doing.

That's not entirely true . . . I was at the '06 Ronnie Alcano WPC at the PICC and I distinctly remember one of the players walking around with a white envelope in hand and cue bag on shoulder. I was on the mezzanine floor right next to the official tournament room where players signed some papers and got their monies.

I remember this becuase I heard him tell somebody that he was going to go into town and use his "early exit" money in a challenge match and see if he could turn it into more money. I remember laughing and thinking at the same time, "these guys (matchroom) do not fool around when it comes to paying players. The dude just lost not more than 20 minutes ago!!

Bad idea because I saw a lot of foreign world class players loosing a lot of money to the local pinoys. Guys in shorts and slippers, in some cases missing teeth.

It was around the middle of the week so somehwere in the last 32 and he got knocked out? (guessing)

So probably the early exit players got money in hand right after they lost and the later round survivors and the winner got wired monies later. Probably because of the bigger amounts.

that's what I saw first hand . . .

kano

 

[watchez]

We were told in Manila by the promoters and again this week that payments would commence via bank transfer on October 21. It is my understanding that the players were told this as well and that this is similar to the payment lag time for past World Championships. So let's all try to keep our fingers off the panic button for another week. Thus far, nothing unexpected has occurred.

I have a simple question-

Were the players told BEFORE they traveled to the Phillipines that any prize money would be paid 2 weeks AFTER the tournament ended or was this announced to the players at the time of the tournament?

Also, a second question-

Jerry - have you been paid or are you waiting two weeks as well?

 

[pro9dg]

Of course they were not. Many of them would not have purchased their air tickets if they knew that there was a risk involved. So they now they are in the situation where they have had to pay for the privilege of taking part in the tournament.

 

[watchez]

Of course they were not. Many of them would not have purchased their air tickets if they knew that there was a risk involved. So they now they are in the situation where they have had to pay for the privilege of taking part in the tournament.

I was getting that impression but just wanted to be clear. Thanks for the info.

Jerry - still wondering if you got paid upfront or if you are waiting for 2 weeks for your wire transfer as well.

 

[Peter@CEP]

The contract between the players and Raya included a section for bank details

Bank Details
(For Payment of Prize Money)
Account Name ...........................................................................................................................................
Account Number........................................................................................................................................
Bank Name.................................................................................................................................................
Bank Branch/Address ................................................................................................................................
Swift Code .................................................................................................................................................

This insinuates that prize money will not be paid in cash at the event and all players knew this.

I don't think that anyone was trold about how long it would be before they receive their prize money.


If, as Jerry says, payments will begin on 21st October, it would seem right that we have to wait until that date before we decide that the organisers are not going to pay.

I expect this thread to gather full momentum from the 22nd October!!!

 

[Fatboy]

First question is why did Jay assume the responsibility of the organizer here? For lack of better words to use I'd say that Jay's action is a result of a blackmail(Jay said in a thread:"I will write as I see it"). I guess "humble pie" = to clout within the WTBC. We probably should've assigned an AzB poster per player to guarantee immediate payment for each and every single one of the players
That we have no info about so to this date only Johnny has been paid through Jay Helfert who then acted as the organizer's prize money payer-upper or collector for JA. Ever hear from any of the tail-enders get paid yet?
Prize Money pay-out shouldn't depend on collectibles. If this is what will be followed then WTBC payouts won't be until 45-60 days from conclusion of the tournament because that's the settlement schedule here with sponsoring corporations. That is if all media values agreed upon were satisfied by the promoters. In short, the sponsoring corporation will first do a research and review the whole production to see if they got their money's worth, of advertisments, based on the agreement.

I was told that ESPN Malaysia only aired the semi and the finals and this doesn't jive with the airing schedule(see table below or click on the link) advertised in the WTBC website. http://www.worldtenball.com/WTBC_TVCoverage.html So just with this, the media values for corporate sponsors' satisfaction came up short.

INTERNATIONAL BROADCAST

? ESPN Star Sports Channell
ESPN Asia
ESPN Malaysia
ESPN China
ESPN Hong Kong
Star Sports Taiwan
29 September ? 05 October 2008 ? Starts 3:00 PM (Manila Time)


Secondly, if it's about "reconciling books" then the question arises as to how long does it take to put monetary values less 5% next to the finishers names? This takes less than an hour and funds released if the Prize Money is available.

Just based on the above, there are other factors too, there really is a reason for the BIG question mark(?).

i agree prize $$ shouldnt be based on accounts recievalbe. never! that was a guess-i know less than most here except the PM info and my post you quote,

best

eric

 

[pro9dg]

My sources close to Prince Billah tell me that they know of no such project and that it would not be possible without the permission of his father, the Sultan of Brunei.

The Prince is not happy that his name is being used to legitimise this event. If he had been involved then he would have come to this tournament. In fact he went to New York for a meeting of the United Nations

 

[Fatboy]

this pertains to all tournments, It sure is hard for players to enforce their claims of but not limited to prize moneys or other consideration when the promoters have no interest in keeping their good name in the industry. Its a chance they take. If knowing that ahead of time they are all perfetly capable of not playing or risking their time/travel expensis, its a relitivity small risk for the potential payday. It is horrible it is that way but it is, and that dosent make it right, I'm nt refering to the tournment discussed here but any torunment,

 

[Guerra Cues]

this pertains to all tournaments, It sure is hard for players to enforce their claims of but not limited to prize moneys or other consideration when the promoters have no interest in keeping their good name in the industry. Its a chance they take. If knowing that ahead of time they are all perfectly capable of not playing or risking their time/travel expenses, its a relatively small risk for the potential payday. It is horrible it is that way but it is, and that doesn't make it right, I'm not referring to the tournament discussed here but any tournament,

That is so true my friend
I have several friends playing on the Eurotour and the Eurotour has a lot of sponsorship and a lot, I mean a lot of TV coverage.
It is very common to watch on Eurosport everyday snooker, 3 cushion and pocket billiards. All we see here on ESPN is Allison Fisher and some trick shot exhibitions.
Unfortunately our "buddies" at ESPN do not like to cover this sport in a serious way.
In Europe, when it comes to moneys things are much more ahead than we are in the US. Before a tournament starts usually all entries are payed thru a direct transfer done on a regular ATM machine. You can even pay your utilities right on the the ATM machine.
I have several friends of mine that run some decent tournaments in Europe and the entry fee needs to be 48 hours before the tournament, already on the account, so on a financial aspect I think Europe is light years ahead of us, unfortunately. That is the reason the why prize moneys are always delivered on time.

 

[bandido]

That is so true my friend
I have several friends playing on the Eurotour and the Eurotour has a lot of sponsorship and a lot, I mean a lot of TV coverage.
It is very common to watch on Eurosport everyday snooker, 3 cushion and pocket billiards. All we see here on ESPN is Allison Fisher and some trick shot exhibitions.
Unfortunately our "buddies" at ESPN do not like to cover this sport in a serious way.
In Europe, when it comes to moneys things are much more ahead than we are in the US. Before a tournament starts usually all entries are payed thru a direct transfer done on a regular ATM machine. You can even pay your utilities right on the the ATM machine.
I have several friends of mine that run some decent tournaments in Europe and the entry fee needs to be 48 hours before the tournament, already on the account, so on a financial aspect I think Europe is light years ahead of us, unfortunately. That is the reason the why prize moneys are always delivered on time.

In fairness, the WTBC was not an event financed by entry fees, gate receipts and booth rental proceeds. The WTBC too offered a huge prize fund that Eurotour events can't even imagine offering. The problem arose when the event promoter didn't have the capital to finance/cover the event in its entirety at the start and to later wait for the corporate participation to come in which takes anywhere from 30-90 days. I can immediately tell from the start that the WTBC didn't have the adequate seed money. Their event announcement in the dailies, streamers on city streets and TV ads were inadequate or non-existent.

We did a Quezon City tourney back in March and the BMPAP Founders financed the tournament and waited up to 90 days to get their money back from the corporate participation proceeds.

<<<still hoping that everything turns out ok come Monday.

 

[bandido]

The Prince is not happy that his name is being used to legitimise this event. If he had been involved then he would have come to this tournament. In fact he went to New York for a meeting of the United Nations

Doug, his name wasn't used to legitimize the event. Mr Chua used his name when Mr. Chua was bragging about building a Billiards Academy. We were aware tht it was just propaganda spiels to proclaim to(wow) people how wealthy and influential they are. LOL!!

Please extend my apologies for even mentioning his name in this thread regarding WTBC.

 

[gopi-1]

I think it depends on the event, the sport, the sanctioning, and the laws governing the location where the event is being held as to whether the prize money must be secured prior to the event.

I think it's probably quite rare for fringe sports like pool to be putting tournament money in escrow prior to the event. In larger sports there are powerful sanctioning bodies which are responsible to their players and who probably make damn sure that the promoter doesn't fire a huge air barrel.

I am honestly not sure if the WPA sanction includes having the prize fund escrowed. Probably not.

The law of the land (Philippines) says that when it comes to pro events, like pool or boxing, the prize fund should be put on escrow. There was a precedent back in '97 when a Filipino world boxing champion was air barreled by the promoter for $300,000, that's when the governing body (GAB-Games and Amusement Board) who's in charge of such matters, decided that all prize/prizes should be put on escrow before the event takes place to protect pro athletes from these shrewd, nondescript, scrupulous promoters/organizers JB...

 

[pro9dg]

Fair enough Edwin, but it's still a indicator of how they think that they can fool all of the people all of the time.

Too many of my respected peers have gone to bat for this event.

Like you, I too hope that come Monday, the money is forthcoming and their faith is justified.

 

[bandido]

Fair enough Edwin, but it's still a indicator of how they think that they can fool all of the people all of the time.

Exactly my message from day1.

 

[corvette1340]

The Prince is not happy that his name is being used to legitimise this event. If he had been involved then he would have come to this tournament. In fact he went to New York for a meeting of the United Nations

I was at that meeting and I didn't see him.

 

[pro9dg]

You were probably in the VIP section and he missed you!

 

[arian dacongan]

They appear to be approaching the funding of these major pool events more in terms of publicity for the Philippines, than in direct dollar returns. We'll just have to wait and see what happens over the next week or so. My suspicion is that all monies will be paid, and soon.

..this is the sad part about this whole yen shoot... the government might bail "him" out to save Phil. from embarassment.. and if the government indeed saves him...

..then he will look good and will appear credible.. but the wrong thing about that is ..it's the poor filipino's taxpayers monies being paid and the "sole" beneficiary is yen...

... i guess , jerry and co. only choose to see and hear what they wanna hear..

..i still hope they pay though..less i sound to be "sabotaging" this "post mortem" as this was the charges jerry was branding for all that are against st. yen prior to the wtb....(edwin , for all his public expression was labeled by jerry as sabotagers trying to prevent wtb from happening-- where's the proof?)