World 14.1 Championship Group Draws!

[Williebetmore]

Bottom line - I should have never been in this position. That is what separates good from great.

Blackjack,
In all fairness to yourself, there are racks that are not runnable, and there are racks that are just evil.

I am ALWAYS struck by the complexity of the strategy in 14.1, even if it is just running balls without competition. There are precepts that every good straight pool will swear by (like getting those damn balls off the rail early in the rack, breaking clusters early with insurance balls, clearing the head area early if there is only 1 ball up there, minimize ball movement, minimize risk, take your easiest shot if possible, etc., etc.). Then when you watch a master play, they will have to violate one of those hallowed principles almost every rack - often they have to violate one principle to follow another.

It is knowing WHEN TO FOLLOW the principles, and WHEN TO VIOLATE them that make the expert player. JMO.

 

[lewdo26]

This is the greatest thread I've seen in a while. Especially the inside-out, outside-in discussion. I think I read Blackjack espousing the inside-out technique, but don't quote me on it. I've never seen it played that way.

What do you 14.1 gurus think of the 4.5 '' pockets? A little loose still? Is this enough to distinguish shotmakers from knowledgeable pattern players (I imagine we're talking fast cloth, too)?

 

[Williebetmore]

This is the greatest thread I've seen in a while. Especially the inside-out, outside-in discussion. I think I read Blackjack espousing the inside-out technique, but don't quote me on it. I've never seen it played that way.

What do you 14.1 gurus think of the 4.5 '' pockets? A little loose still? Is this enough to distinguish shotmakers from knowledgeable pattern players (I imagine we're talking fast cloth, too)?

lewd-man,
I'm no guru, but I'll tell you what several have told me.

There are racks where you will be forced to play inside out, no matter your preference; and racks where you will be forced to play outside in. Recognizing the difference early in the rack, and developing the proficiency to play either style is essential to a well rounded game. Play it whatever way gives you the easiest shots, least risk, least ball movement.

I'm not sure about the 4.5" pockets. It MAY be tight enough, but it also depends on the depth of the pocket drop, and the angle of the facings. I'm hoping for a deep drop, and tough facing angles. I don't think 4.5" guarantees in itself a tough table.

 

[Bob Jewett]

The exact same name came to mind for me when I thought about players who played the table from the inside out.

The vast majority of the old schoolers played the rack from the outside in, parking the cue near center table and, where possible, addressing balls near the rails first. Playing the rack in this style was often referred to by the old masters as "playing the flower", a term rarely used by the current generation of straight poolers.

The only time I saw Hohmann play (NJ State C'ship that he won), there was no rack after the break shot due to the speed on his break shot. I wonder if that's also how he was playing in the Euro championships when he set the high average.

 

[lewdo26]

lewd-man,
I'm no guru, but I'll tell you what several have told me.

There are racks where you will be forced to play inside out, no matter your preference; and racks where you will be forced to play outside in. Recognizing the difference early in the rack, and developing the proficiency to play either style is essential to a well rounded game. Play it whatever way gives you the easiest shots, least risk, least ball movement.

I'm not sure about the 4.5" pockets. It MAY be tight enough, but it also depends on the depth of the pocket drop, and the angle of the facings. I'm hoping for a deep drop, and tough facing angles. I don't think 4.5" guarantees in itself a tough table.

Williebetmore-so-than-you,
I'll indeed keep an eye on this inside-out situation. Just being aware of it, I'm sure will make worlds of difference. I can imagine how a bunch of stop-stop-stops in the rack area would make for sound strategy.

It'll be a Gabriels-Simonis combo, everything in it. I look for the tables to play easier than what we've seen at the U.S. Open. Gabriels don't have as evil a pocket shelf as the Diamonds.

P.S. How often do you get to use pockets other than the corners playing inside-outside?

 

[sjm]

I'm not sure about the 4.5" pockets. It MAY be tight enough, but it also depends on the depth of the pocket drop, and the angle of the facings. I'm hoping for a deep drop, and tough facing angles. I don't think 4.5" guarantees in itself a tough table.

I think it's more about the rails than the pocket cut.

If the rails are new and slidy (and they were at the 2000 BCA 14.1 event), 4 1/2" can still play on the loose side for the first couple of days of the event. If the rails are not slidy, but are instead true, 4 1/2" is likely to be tight enough to ensure that only the elite run over 100.

 

[Williebetmore]

I think it's more about the rails than the pocket cut.

If the rails are new and slidy (and they were at the 2000 BCA 14.1 event), 4 1/2" can still play on the loose side for the first couple of days of the event. If the rails are not slidy, but are instead true, 4 1/2" is likely to be tight enough to ensure that only the elite run over 100.

SJM,
Too true.

I wish there were some way to artificially "age" cloth. I have been delaying putting new cloth on my home table, because it plays SO much easier with the new cloth (ie. balls sliding down the rail into the corner pockets). I like a bit of a challenge.

I will say, though, that depth of pocket is still fairly important. The local Diamonds play a fair bit tougher than my table, despite pocket openings that are slightly larger.

I never thought about it in terms of relative importance of the factors - on that issue I am clueless.

 

[td873]

Where's Danny Borouty?

 

[sjm]

Where's Danny Borouty?

He's alive and well, and preparing himself for battle. I saw him practicing with Tony Robles on Wednesday evening at Amsterdam Billiard Club. Always a treat when NYC's two most celebrated straight poolers of this generation hook up. They sure make it look easy.

I'm looking forward to cheering for Danny and all the NYC players next week at the tournament.

 

[bruin70]

does the fact that this is a williams event have anything to do with the absence of some big name players?

aside from two very obvious williams-haters, there are still a few stateside notables...morris,,,jones,,,jeanette's husband whose name escapes me for the moment...sorry, jeanette's husband. maybe some other "9ballers" would have been interesting.

i would have liked to see alex, manolo, and efren,,,and a handful of taiwanese. the asian players always seem to have something else going over there. would've been nice to see additional snooker players too.

 

[lewdo26]

does the fact that this is a williams event have anything to do with the absence of some big name players?

aside from two very obvious williams-haters, there are still a few stateside notables...morris,,,jones,,,jeanette's husband whose name escapes me for the moment...sorry, jeanette's husband. maybe some other "9ballers" would have been interesting.

i would have liked to see alex, manolo, and efren,,,and a handful of taiwanese. the asian players always seem to have something else going over there. would've been nice to see additional snooker players too.

What about Rempe!?

 

[bruin70]

What about Rempe!?

i remember long ago when amsterdam held their 14.1 "championship", they asked rempe, and he made demands they weren't willing to concede.

 

[Williebetmore]

Oh, dang it; I forgot to tell my best "close position" story (I'm sure breakup will appreciate it...well, at least he will if he can get someone to read it to him).

At this year's DCC I played a race to 3, alternate shot 8-ball match with Efren Reyes as my partner. The first few shots I had were 4, 5, or 6 feet; at least one was a medium tough back cut requiring heavy inside English to have any hope of decent position. After I made the tough shot (lucky), I looked so relieved that Efren laughed (I was also on the receiving end of some high level sharking while shooting). I told him that I was a straight pool player, and I was used to being a LOT closer to the object ball. The remainder of the evening I doubt if I was ever more than 12 or 13 inches away from the object ball - and I mean every single time.

Though Efren doesn't play straight pool often, I had a first hand glimpse of how awesome his "close position" can really be.

 

[sjm]

does the fact that this is a williams event have anything to do with the absence of some big name players?

With apologies, Bruin, this kind of post makes me crazy!

If there is anybody anywhere who thinks this field is any weaker than that of the 2000 BCA 14.1 US Open, the 1999 National Straight Pool Championships, or the 1993 US Open 14.1 event, let them come forward. Actually, I don't expect anyone to come forward, because this field is stronger than all three of those.

Let us all celebrate the formation and assemblage of the strongest 14.1 field since the 1992 US Open.

It befuddles me that some can't help but focus on the fact that a handful of marquee players are not in the field.

The creme-de-la-creme of straight pool will asemble later this week and will give us the greatest straight pool event in 14 years.

Perhaps we should just sit back and enjoy the show.

 

[Blackjack]

With apologies, Bruin, this kind of post makes me crazy!

If there is anybody anywhere who thinks this field is any weaker than that of the 2000 BCA 14.1 US Open, the 1999 National Straight Pool Championships, or the 1993 US Open 14.1 event, let them come forward. Actually, I don't expect anyone to come forward, because this field is stronger than all three of those.

Let us all celebrate the formation and assemblage of the strongest 14.1 field since the 1992 US Open.

It befuddles me that some can't help but focus on the fact that a handful of marquee players are not in the field.

The creme-de-la-creme of straight pool will asemble later this week and will give us the greatest straight pool event in 14 years.

Perhaps we should just sit back and enjoy the show.

I agree with you 1000%. Charlie has done his best to assemble the greatest players in the world. When this event starts on May 30, I will be very happy that 14.1 is once again in the spotlight that it deserves in the world of pocket billiards. I spoke with Danny Harriman this morning. He is on his way to NJ right now, and he WILL be playing in this event. That is a testament to Charlie's willingness to ensure that the best players are playing in this event. It also means that certain past issues have been put to rest. In addition to this event, Charlie is also promoting a UPA 10 ball event in Jacksonville. Doing both of these events back to back, he should be commended for his tireless efforts. No event wil be perfect, but I believe that Randy and Charlie have done their best to provide a great venue for the players and the fans. Hopefully this will be the start of great things to come for the game of 14.1 - and hopefully next time I will be invited as a player also. (no sour grapes from this chair... I'm content with marveling at the greats doing what they do best) - next year I will try to qualify.

 

[bruin70]

With apologies, Bruin, this kind of post makes me crazy!

If there is anybody anywhere who thinks this field is any weaker than that of the 2000 BCA 14.1,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Perhaps we should just sit back and enjoy the show.

sjm,,,this has nothing to do with who is there,,,,but who ISN'T. there's a difference.

there is good pool here, i'm sure, though i don't know half the players listed. but there is also a lot of "color" missing that would have made it more interesting. with what i hear about alex playing 100 no count.....and since the taiwanese apparantly play the game a lot,,,and all these rumors swirling about jennifer chen's humongo high run,,,yeah, i think there's something missing.

but my question also refers to williams and who he was or was not able to bring together.

 

[lewdo26]

With apologies, Bruin, this kind of post makes me crazy!

If there is anybody anywhere who thinks this field is any weaker than that of the 2000 BCA 14.1 US Open, the 1999 National Straight Pool Championships, or the 1993 US Open 14.1 event, let them come forward. Actually, I don't expect anyone to come forward, because this field is stronger than all three of those.

Let us all celebrate the formation and assemblage of the strongest 14.1 field since the 1992 US Open.

It befuddles me that some can't help but focus on the fact that a handful of marquee players are not in the field.

The creme-de-la-creme of straight pool will asemble later this week and will give us the greatest straight pool event in 14 years.

Perhaps we should just sit back and enjoy the show.

I agree, and I apologize. I have brought up Rempe's absence in other posts. I let my love of the guy's game and the fact that I've never seen him play in person get the better of me.

We'll all enjoy the show, of that I'm sure. And that is thanks to Randy and Charlie.

 

[sjm]

sjm,,,this has nothing to do with who is there,,,,but who ISN'T. there's a difference.

there is good pool here, i'm sure, though i don't know half the players listed. but there is also a lot of "color" missing that would have made it more interesting. with what i hear about alex playing 100 no count.....and since the taiwanese apparantly play the game a lot,,,and all these rumors swirling about jennifer chen's humongo high run,,,yeah, i think there's something missing.

but my question also refers to williams and who he was or was not able to bring together.

If I misinterpreted your post, Bruin, I apologize. Sounds like you know where I'm coming from.

 

[lewdo26]

BTW,

Does anyone know when the first round starts on Tuesday and how many rounds they'll have a day?

Also, how much the tickets will be at the door?

I'm doing some logistical planning here, and this information would be appreciated.

 

[sjm]

I agree, and I apologize. I have brought up Rempe's absence in other posts. I let my love of the guy's game and the fact that I've never seen him play in person get the better of me.

We'll all enjoy the show, of that I'm sure.

No biggie, Lewdo. Will you be at the event? Hope so, and perhaps we can sweat a match or two together.