Scott Lee said:
Jack and Danny D. were freaks who could throw full racks up there and tighten them by hand. But these refs do not in any way, shape or form have that unique ability.
World Ten Ball updates
- Thread starter jay helfert
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Jack and Danny D. were freaks who could throw full racks up there and tighten them by hand. But these refs do not in any way, shape or form have that unique ability.
SloRoller said:
There ARE internet feeds from every table, but the TV table. If you go to the World Ten Ball website, it will tell you how to log in. It is a "pay per view" as well.
f210 said:
Another one of the filipino "unknowns". It's no fluke either. He's a serious player!
I stand by my earlier remarks regarding all the "rules". You can over officiate a great game. For instance a player calls the 4 ball and misses it and the 7 ball accidentedly goes in. He loses his turn, but his opponent can now opt to pass the shot back to the shooter. Let's say a player has a shot where he can make the object ball and maybe billiard in the 10 ball. He MUST call one ball or the other. If he misses the object ball and the 10 goes (and it has not been called), it will respot. Oh, and his opponent can make him shoot again.
My experience has been that when two good players hook up, the luck factor is minimal. So why all the rules to "protect" them from luck. And why try to eliminate all luck from the game anyway? Sometimes that can be very exciting, and bring the crowd to their feet. Sometimes I think these rule makers forget about the audience and that pool is a spectator sport.
I'm also still not buying the "perfect" rack by tapping the balls in. I will wager ANY amount that I can put a tighter rack up by using a triangle of my choosing. We can have a strong player break the balls ten times using hand racks and my racks and see where he makes the most balls and how many times the 9 ball (or 10 ball) goes in. Are there any refs/officials out there who care for a piece of this action? $500 minimum bet.
I went "native" this trip staying in Mikaela's (Bunny is her nickname) apartment in Pasay City. It is only 15 minutes (70-80p by taxi) from the PICC. I'm loving it, living with the people, shopping in their stores, eating in their restaurants and living among them. The filipinos are a great and friendly people. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
Bunny is a little doll who I have grown to love over the last three years (and six visits). I couldn't have a better girl. I have no desire to visit the clubs anymore. She keeps me well satisfied in all respects. :wink:
I brought here with me to watch the matches last night. She has a crush on Shane and wanted to see him play. He demolished Kuo much to her delight, and we had dinner with him afterwards. I asked her later why she likes Shane so much and she told me he is cute, tall
confused, very nice and plays so good. She added that I'm still number one though, much to my relief.
I go everywhere in Pasay both on my own and with Bunny. I am one of the very rare Western faces around here. No problem, I smile and say hello to everyone who looks at me, including the armed guards in the doorways of the businesses. Contrary to what some fearmongers believe, I feel safer here than on the streets of a major U.S. city.
There are two small poolrooms within a couple of blocks of Bunny's "house". I visited both already. I am not in shape to play, but may anyway. I got challenged at both places. Last trip here I played almos every day and did just fine. One guy asked me to play for 500p a game Rotation. That's about $11, a decent bet here. If I can practice one day first, I will take him up on it. Remember these guys live in the poolrooms and play every day.
Bunny is a little doll who I have grown to love over the last three years (and six visits). I couldn't have a better girl. I have no desire to visit the clubs anymore. She keeps me well satisfied in all respects. :wink:
I brought here with me to watch the matches last night. She has a crush on Shane and wanted to see him play. He demolished Kuo much to her delight, and we had dinner with him afterwards. I asked her later why she likes Shane so much and she told me he is cute, tall
confused, very nice and plays so good. She added that I'm still number one though, much to my relief. I go everywhere in Pasay both on my own and with Bunny. I am one of the very rare Western faces around here. No problem, I smile and say hello to everyone who looks at me, including the armed guards in the doorways of the businesses. Contrary to what some fearmongers believe, I feel safer here than on the streets of a major U.S. city.
There are two small poolrooms within a couple of blocks of Bunny's "house". I visited both already. I am not in shape to play, but may anyway. I got challenged at both places. Last trip here I played almos every day and did just fine. One guy asked me to play for 500p a game Rotation. That's about $11, a decent bet here. If I can practice one day first, I will take him up on it. Remember these guys live in the poolrooms and play every day.
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One thing I've noticed about this tourney is that the camera/lighting/broadcast quality is not up to WPC or Guiness 9-Ball tour standards- the picture is very washed-out- it's difficult to read the table as it's almost impossible to tell the balls apart by color.
I'm not complaining about the amount of TV coverage, though- four hours per day minimum so far.:thumbup:
I'm not complaining about the amount of TV coverage, though- four hours per day minimum so far.:thumbup:
jay helfert said:
We are not talking about breaks, we are talking about racks.
So, I will gladly give you action for any amount, you or your designated racker will make racks on a table without the dents, I will make racks on a table with dents. Then we'll carefully inspect the rack and count all the gaps between balls. Let's make it interesting and bet $5k.
I am an official EPBF ref. (EPBF = European Pocket Billiard Federation FYI)
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jay helfert said:
I beg to differ. Either the balls are touching each other or they are not....unless you of course start creating balls that are not so round anymore and are "touching more" than the others
The whole principle of the tapping is that the balls are essentially leaning ever so slightly aginst each other. So when a new cloth is tapped and the table is otherwise good, all of the balls will be tight and there are no gaps in between. Now over time, when the cloth gets stretched and used more....tapping loses it's magic and needs to be redone....but until then it remains the only way to pretty much guarantee same quality of rack for everyone.
Now what HAS BEEN and to large extent STILL IS a big problem with tapping, is in 9ball WHERE the rack is done. In a standard way, players quickly found a way to slowbreak or cutbreak and the wingball is in the corner in 90+ % with the 1ball in the centerpocket or drifting towards the cornerpocket in the starting end. Now if the rack is not tapped...there might be miniscule gaps between the balls making the rack much more unpredictable....with tapped rack...it's always the sam => same break => same result every time. This is why many tournaments I have seen, have started to rack the 9 on the spot or use breakboxes...or combination of both.
Now, I am not going to put my money where my mouth is as I have no desire to fly over just to make some racks....I can do that here in Germany or in Holland for free as well playing against better players!
However I do say that counting how many golden breaks or how many balls you get on the break is not an accurate measure of the tightness of the rack.Just my 0.02EUR
cheers,
Kimmo
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mjantti said:
Hi Mikko,
this is Marek from Czech Republic, remember Harlequin?
Jay is a good guy and has great amounts of pool knowledge by reading his texts here on AZ but apparently he doesnt have any experinence with the denting template EPBF/WPA uses. If he does he woudnt bet a single dollar againts you...
At best he could match you in doing 10 perfect racks but while it would take you 10 seconds to build a perfect rack it would take him maybe half a minute doing so. Also I am yet to experience a single situation where the dents influence the game, the only thing I saw was occasional slight settle (maybe 1mm) of the ball when stopping in the rack area and thats nothing unusual even for undented table.
marek said:Hi Mikko,
this is Marek from Czech Republic, remember Harlequin?
Hey Marek. Sure I remember you and Harlequin
How you're doing, when are you going to qualify for the EPC so I can rack for you as well ? I know Jay is a good and knowledgeble guy but in this case he just doesn't know what he's talking about. I don't usually start arguing about things, but in this case there are many ppl who will just go with Jay here without knowing how the facts are. Nothing against Jay, and I liked his report on Bunny
gobrian77 said:
All referees are supposed to work in the same manner. And my guess is that there aren't any racks available at the tables. And racking is easier and much faster done by hand, we don't need another Sardo gimmick rack which was completely useless because the secret was in the dents, not in the rack. If a ref cannot rack by hand, he/she has to learn it.
In the EPC, no racks were presented for the players who were racking for each other except semis and finals, and still no one complained over the tournament about the missing racks. Even though they were racking for 14.1, 8-ball and 9-ball. The tapping system is the best thing that has happened for all games except 9-ball (won't touch that subject with a 30ft pole here
)
mjantti said:Hey Marek. Sure I remember you and Harlequin
I know Jay is a good and knowledgeble guy but in this case he just doesn't know what he's talking about. I don't usually start arguing about things, but in this case there are many ppl who will just go with Jay here without knowing how the facts are. Nothing against Jay, and I liked his report on Bunny
Got to agree. Even if Jay is one of the people that is probably the most respected and knowledgable, the tapped racks in europe can't be beaten for the simple reasons. If you put 100 racks, there will be 0 gaps in total. You can't rack -10 gaps
At best, it would be equal.I have to re-tap my hometable about once every month. (usually its just one or two balls. In 2 years that i had my table, i did a full retap twice: once when i bought it, and once after a year.
I do tap them without a template. I rack the balls perfectly with a triangle and ask my wife to tap the balls. Saves me 50$ for buying the template and works aswell. The thing is, the position of the triangle has to be PIN perfect. Once i had the rack at a very slight angle, and didnt pot any ball for a week/ I redid it, and BOOM i was potting 2-3 balls on every break again.
Is it usefull for 9ball? i'd say no and yes. Its usefull , because GAPS make the 9ball go in often, not a tight rack. read the racking secrets. its not usefull because it makes 9ball, more a 6ball game wich any B player and above can clear.
For 8-ball it gives ALOT better spreads, and in straight, you just need a gentle nodge of the rack to open it. No need to slam the cb in it. These 2 games are where they are must-havers.
Thanks for the updates Jay ! but dont bet a beating the EPBF template
Ps Bunny seems like a cutie to make you forget all others. dont hesitate to post some cute picture of both of you if she doesnt mind
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Solartje said:
Doesn't work the same way with the template if you do it with a regular triangle. The secret of the template is that the template holes are slightly closer to each other than the "perfect rack" ball placement. When racking, the balls "lean" on each other. Which means that when the dents get bigger after regular use, you can still get a perfect rack if you used a template to make the dents in the first place. My fellow referee (WPA level) showed me a video of Taiwanese officials making the tapping without a template in the WPC for women. It took like 10 minutes in which they tapped one ball at a time in a way that they moved all the balls just a tiny bit closer to the 9-ball. Like: tap one ball, move the whole triangle a fraction, tap another ball, move the triangle, etc. Tapping of all 9 balls was done with precision and a certain strick order. Looked crazy but they knew what they were doing. But I guess you can do it with a regular triangle like you are doing, I don't think the tapping will last as long as made with a template. And it's cheaper of course
mjantti said:Doesn't work the same way with the template if you do it with a regular triangle. The secret of the template is that the template holes are slightly closer to each other than the "perfect rack" ball placement. When racking, the balls "lean" on each other. Which means that when the dents get bigger after regular use, you can still get a perfect rack if you used a template to make the dents in the first place. My fellow referee (WPA level) showed me a video of Taiwanese officials making the tapping without a template in the WPC for women. It took like 10 minutes in which they tapped one ball at a time in a way that they moved all the balls just a tiny bit closer to the 9-ball. Like: tap one ball, move the whole triangle a fraction, tap another ball, move the triangle, etc. Tapping of all 9 balls was done with precision and a certain strick order. Looked crazy but they knew what they were doing. But I guess you can do it with a regular triangle like you are doing, I don't think the tapping will last as long as made with a template. And it's cheaper of course
mmm i agree i didnt know about the leaning when i first did it. My mechanic forgot the template, and i just couldnt wait to play.... first table ever, who could last longer then 2 hours not playing?
anyway, it works for me. I might have to slightly tick a ball or two to be sure they are all touching once in a while, but this takes like 2seconds and save me some $, but i'll defently try the template when the new cloth comes.
Jasmin wins 9 to 4 over Thomas Engert
ehem... back on topic.
Here are the players who advanced to the next round (last 64).
Group A
Daryl Peach, Sasha Tege, Liu Shin-Mei and Kazuo Furuta
Group B
Lu Hui-Chan, Charlie Williams, Ming Wang and Imran Mahid
Group C
Victor Arpilleda, Marlon Manalo, Fabio Petroni and Wong-Dae King
Group D
Tyler Edey, Bruno Muratore, Shaun Wilkie and Ricky Yang
Group E
Mark Gray, Naoyuki Oi, Stevie Moore and jericho Banares
Group F
Demosthenes Pupul, Seung-Woo Ryu, Yang Ching-Shun and Lai Chia-Hsiung
Group G
Dimitri Jungo, Darren Appleton, Ruslan Chinahov and Ernesto Dominguez
Group H
Leonardo Didal, Shane Van Boening, Tony Drago and Christian Weigoni
Group K
Niels Feijen, Marcus Chamat, Dharminder Sing Lilly and Martin Larsen/James Delahunty
Group L
Nick Van Den Berg, Wang Hung-Hsiang, Chang Jung-Lin and Hayato Hijikata
Group M
Roman Hybler, Vilmos Foldes, Jasmin Ouschan and Corey Deuel
Group N
Mika Immonen & Wu Chia-Ching, the other 2 games are in progress
Group O
Martin Kempter, Oliver Ortmann, the other 2 games are in progress
Group P
Sander Tot, Hung-Ming Chu and the other 2 games are in progress
Group R
Ko Pin-Yi, Fu Che-We, the other 2 games are in progress
Group S
Ralf Souquet, Loius Condo and the 2 games are still in progress
Here are the players who advanced to the next round (last 64).
Group A
Daryl Peach, Sasha Tege, Liu Shin-Mei and Kazuo Furuta
Group B
Lu Hui-Chan, Charlie Williams, Ming Wang and Imran Mahid
Group C
Victor Arpilleda, Marlon Manalo, Fabio Petroni and Wong-Dae King
Group D
Tyler Edey, Bruno Muratore, Shaun Wilkie and Ricky Yang
Group E
Mark Gray, Naoyuki Oi, Stevie Moore and jericho Banares
Group F
Demosthenes Pupul, Seung-Woo Ryu, Yang Ching-Shun and Lai Chia-Hsiung
Group G
Dimitri Jungo, Darren Appleton, Ruslan Chinahov and Ernesto Dominguez
Group H
Leonardo Didal, Shane Van Boening, Tony Drago and Christian Weigoni
Group K
Niels Feijen, Marcus Chamat, Dharminder Sing Lilly and Martin Larsen/James Delahunty
Group L
Nick Van Den Berg, Wang Hung-Hsiang, Chang Jung-Lin and Hayato Hijikata
Group M
Roman Hybler, Vilmos Foldes, Jasmin Ouschan and Corey Deuel
Group N
Mika Immonen & Wu Chia-Ching, the other 2 games are in progress
Group O
Martin Kempter, Oliver Ortmann, the other 2 games are in progress
Group P
Sander Tot, Hung-Ming Chu and the other 2 games are in progress
Group R
Ko Pin-Yi, Fu Che-We, the other 2 games are in progress
Group S
Ralf Souquet, Loius Condo and the 2 games are still in progress