Worst Player You Know of That Made a Living Hustling?

[justinb386]

I knew plenty of guys who were B level that made $200-$300 a night playing nickel and dime 8 ball, 9 ball, 6 ball and even 3 ball. You just had to know where to fish and when to move on. That stuff can add up quick if you're clever. To answer the OP's question, you didn't have to be a world beater to make money scuffling through college towns/bars back in the 80s. Playing long sets for big bucks was a totally different scenario, though. Lots of A and B players tried to get a spot they could stay ahead of and monsters like St. Louis Louis and many others lived for that action.

I think those days are gone forever, now, though. Go into any bar and try and get action, even $5 a game...it's either nothing or there's a shortstop present who wants to start at $50. I haven't seen a designated challenge table in a bar in years, where those nickel and dime games flourished, everybody lined up their quarters on the rail and a B player could put .50 cents in at 5:00 pm and hold the table all night, just beating all comers and taking Lincolns and beers off them at a clip.

Oh my, those were the good days. Every weekend, I would go down to my local bar, and put down my 50 cents on the rail, wait an hour for my turn in line, and then hold the table until 2 am. That was back in the late 90's and early 2000's. Those days are long gone. Very few bangers left that love to shoot pool while having a drink. Very sad.

 

[justinb386]

On more than one occasion I cleared close to $300 playing 3 ball, at $2 per player antes! I had every $1 bill in the bar, they had to come to me to break $20s and keep playing. And still they kept coming. Haven't seen a 3 ball game in almost 20 years...$5 and $10 games of 8 ball could net me $200 easy in a military or college town, back when every bar had one bar box designated as a challenge table. People don't mind lining up and paying a few bucks to try and beat the "shark". It adds up quick, and you don't have to play any scams. Once you lose (ahead), put your .50 cents up on the table, have a beer and disappear. Hit two or three bars a night.

Those cheap games were the way most scufflers made money; you could bleed the WHOLE BAR dry and they'd never catch on. Doubling down and getting the games expensive is too risky and you usually end up with less than what you'd get nickel and diming everybody. All you had to do was stay ahead, and they'd spend every thing they had trying to catch up, no need to double down. No challenge tables anymore. Used to be you'd have to run get there early to beat the crowd or you'd wait two hours to get a shot at a table. Now the bar is still full but the pool tables are usually open. Just decorative furniture. Dead, dead, dead.

Yeah, it is sad sad. People are just not interested in playing pool anymore. Back in the late 90's and early 2000's (when I was going to the college bars), everyone loved to play pool (no matter what their skill level was). These days, the tables just stay empty all night, and when the owners catch on, they end up removing the tables for more standing room. I really do not understand why the interest in pool (with the newer generations of kids) died.

 

[justinb386]

I mean shit, I could have paid my way through college hustling pool if it cost me what it cost in the 60's as opposed to the 25K I'm currently paying off. I think my mom said she paid like 100 bucks a quarter at UCLA in the 60's. And no, I'm not a good player but it doesn't take much of a player to hold down the bar table for a night.

You are right about that, but every once in a while, a half way decent player would come to the table, and run out on you, after you had a dry break. I wish I knew where the pool scene was as amazing as it was back in the late 90's (for me back in my home town). Everyone loved to play pool back then. I never thought any of the drunk kids would want to bet anything on a game though, and I honestly would have felt bad taking their money. It was just too easy.

 

[justinb386]

We still play some 3 ball in a lot of small towns in South Dakota and you are right. even at a dollar or two a person the pots get huge. Some of my best memories were playing 3 ball with my grandpa and grandma in a small bar with 2 barboxes and pretty much every every person in the bar in on the game. People would get kind of angry when my grandma would lug her oxygen tank around the table and end up clearing the pot.

Oh, 3 ball is such a joke, lol, but it is the type of game where anyone can win at, and that is why everyone gets in to play. It is a lot of fun, and very funny I think. The only time I ever win is when I sink 2 balls on the break, lol, and get a shot on the last ball. I feel like I am just donating when ever I play the game, lol, but it is fun.

 

[justinb386]

If you accept a liberal definition of "Hustling", Fatty was the worst player that made the best living from pool.

Yeah, my 1st thought was Minnesota Fats (probably the worst known hustler of all time). Think about it, would he really have any chance against any of the other great known hustlers? I do not think so, but I honestly do not know how good he really was in his prime.

 

[1pocket]

Yeah, sure he was! LOL That why he ended up dead broke, living in a hotel room paid for by the owner. The only thing "smart" about Fats was his ability to BS anybody and everybody who would listen. The guy was a pretty good showman, and a world champion eater! :grin:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Like you were there Scott, lol. Greenleaf died broke too -- he must have been a chump player too. What does dying broke have to do with it anyway??

No, I wasn't there either. However, players that I have talked to over the years who saw Fats play prior to the 60's universally gave him credit for being a strong player -- just a ball below the best at One Pocket and also close at Banks. And smart about matching up besides having the greatest gift of gab of his time (acknowledged by none other than Ali).

 

[pt109]

In my opinion, Rudolf Wanderone's name doesn't belong in this thread...
...Fatty could play.

Pretty sure he beat Richie Florence for about $20,000 getting 8/7 at one hole...
...middle sixties money...equivalent to about $150,000 in today's money.

'course, he coulldn't play as good as he said he could....nobody could....

I've seen players that needed 8/5 and the break off Fatty playing for 5 or 10 thou per game....
...maybe one of those guys might satisfy the OP....
....but I doubt they would open their books.

 

[book collector]

I was reading the Wikipedia article to see when the tv shows aired.
It said he was born in 1913 , which was 1 year before my friend George Rood.
The article says he sometimes hinted he was born earlier , maybe even as early as 1900.
I don't know about that, but I do know that George left home when he was pretty young, and went to work in a pool room that had a card game owned by a bookie in Marietta Ohio, I believe.
He told me that one day Fats drove up in a brand new Cadillac and asked if George Rood was around.
The rest of the story is in a Billiards Digest issue or Pool and Billiards or one of the magazines but the important part is that George said he was about 16, that makes it 1930 or 31 and he said Fats was a grown man with a brand new cadillac, dressed to the 9s and had a wad of money big enough to choke a horse.
This makes me think he probably was older than the date normally associated with him,
Even if he was born in 1913, his best days were probably in the 30s and 40s, like Georges.
People that base his abilitys on a tv show from the 1970s or later, when he was at least 57 years old, would be well served to do a little more research.
Another reason I think he was probably older, was that he beat Cowboy Weston, a former world champion pretty easily in 1926 at nine ball .
That would make him 13! {Not likely}
Fats also played billiards, his teacher was also a former world champion named Erich Hagenlocher.

 

[ghost ball]

Has anyone mentioned Vincet Lauria? I hear he does alright.

 

[ChicagoJay]

A B player will beat almost every player in the bars who are drunk banging them around so the key is getting people to play. Your speed of play is not all that important as your sales pitch.

I can go to a bar and if its got people in it then I am guaranteed to be swimming in drinks all night long but when the bet changes to money then you need to have a pitch. I would usually say I already have had a drink or enough to drink so lets just bet $5 or $10. I have had people playing me $50 to a $100 a game before but that is rare.

A funny instance was when I saw an Indian restaurant owner in the bar, the guy had played less than a month ago for $100 against the bar tender so I knew he would gamble. My roommate and I who plays pretty good too decide to play them partners for $20 a man, we win that game and the Indian guy wants to play heads up for a $100 and I win that game.

A Samoan dude is at the bar watching it all and says I will play a game for $50. I agree and we post with the bar tender who is a nice looking young lady and enjoying the action. We are halfway through the first game and my roommate says to me, the guy has no tip on his cue and it is absolutely true and I could not believe it.

He loses that game and I agree to play another obviously and we post with the bar tender who we tip $10 each game. He says lets play for $60 this time, he loses again and never realized he had no tip on his cue. This happened on a Wednesday night so there is no rhyme or reason to it, just right place right time I guess.

No tip on the cue lol, this may just be the best bar pool playing story ever

 

[Fast Lenny]

Not sure if Dippy Dave is a full timer, but if he is, he's my vote. Can't play a lick. Gambles pretty sporty:

http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4697

Dippy probably plays better then half the people on the forum, haha.

 

[Fast Lenny]

I loved gambling in the bars and drinking free beer.

I was playing this guy for a beer a game in Japan and I ended up with so many beers on the table I couldn't drink them fast enough. I had to ask the lady behind the counter for a beer case because I took about 20 or so with me when I left. I told the lady to quit opening them.

I crushed the "Crush". I don't think he ever won a game.

http://prowrestling.wikia.com/wiki/Brian_Adams

My friend and I did this a couple of years back at a place in Long Beach. We walked in the door and to our surprise they have a few Diamond bar tables and attached to this joint a taco shop. Good crowd in there and we got to playing people for drinks and some people for a few bucks. The shelf near us had probably variety of a dozen drinks on there and we were swimming in booze totally wasted at the end of the night. We never lost a game playing singles or doubles the whole night. Good times!

 

[Neil]

Like you were there Scott, lol. Greenleaf died broke too -- he must have been a chump player too. What does dying broke have to do with it anyway??

No, I wasn't there either. However, players that I have talked to over the years who saw Fats play prior to the 60's universally gave him credit for being a strong player -- just a ball below the best at One Pocket and also close at Banks. And smart about matching up besides having the greatest gift of gab of his time (acknowledged by none other than Ali).

I think you are misunderstanding what Scott said. He never stated that Fatty couldn't play, or that anyone that died broke as a player was a chump player all the time. What he did say, is that Fat's wasn't smart. He said that because every pool player knows that eventually time will catch up with their game, and their game and income will suffer. Despite all the ten's of thousands that Fat's won, he never set any aside for his later years. Therefore, he wasn't very smart in that regard. A fact that holds true for most of the players of that era.

Today's players are smarter in that most of them are setting up for their later years.

 

[GaryB]

My friend and I did this a couple of years back at a place in Long Beach. We walked in the door and to our surprise they have a few Diamond bar tables and attached to this joint a taco shop. Good crowd in there and we got to playing people for drinks and some people for a few bucks. The shelf near us had probably variety of a dozen drinks on there and we were swimming in booze totally wasted at the end of the night. We never lost a game playing singles or doubles the whole night. Good times!

Reno Room on Broadway & Redondo one of my old stomping grounds. When I was going in there it was not known as a hot bed for pool. It was just a great place for a few drinks and the Taco Joint had good food. Lived about 10 blocks away in the "Shore" for over 50 yrs. The places that fielded teams for the leagues were on 4th St and on Anaheim. Looking at the photo you posted I think I'll stop in on my next trip to Long Beach next month

 

[iba7467]

An APA 5 could make a modest living

2004-2006 I was a mid-level APA 5 in Birmingham, AL. I beat every 4 and 5 in the city gambling that would. I kept track those 3 years and made much more than my day job while going to college. Long nights and easy money. If a good talker was willing to move every few years I have no doubt they could win $35K or so cash annually. Not a living but fun.

I think Rhea tried it but does not communicate well enough to get all the easy money from a room/bar, and is too cocky to lay down long enough. Even very good players who previously made a living playing have given it up: Chris Bartram being a great example.

Right now I would say a few coaches have to take the award,

 

[1pocket]

duplicate post

 

[1pocket]

I think you are misunderstanding what Scott said. He never stated that Fatty couldn't play, or that anyone that died broke as a player was a chump player all the time. What he did say, is that Fat's wasn't smart. He said that because every pool player knows that eventually time will catch up with their game, and their game and income will suffer. Despite all the ten's of thousands that Fat's won, he never set any aside for his later years. Therefore, he wasn't very smart in that regard. A fact that holds true for most of the players of that era.

Today's players are smarter in that most of them are setting up for their later years.

Okay, maybe Fatty was not as smart as he could have been with regard to setting aside money for his later years. On the other hand I have a feeling he lived longer than he expected too, lol.

Also, maybe you or Scott can name another player that died broke (there certainly have been many), yet was "smart" enough to get a hotel owner to put him up for nothing in his last feeble years. Good luck with that, lol.

Anyway this thread was about weak players that were good at hustling an income from pool. I think it would be hard to dispute that Fats was good at hustling an income from pool. However, I doubt he was anyhere near the worst player to make his living that way. In fact while we are on it, what about all the players that "hustle" their living by instruction and exhibitions? Like Scott Lee for instance -- if Scott Lee were to be able to hypothetically challenge Fats say anytime during Fats 40 year "prime" of playing pool, my money would be on Fats. Maybe Scott qualifies more than Fats, lol.

 

[alstl]

I think you are misunderstanding what Scott said. He never stated that Fatty couldn't play, or that anyone that died broke as a player was a chump player all the time. What he did say, is that Fat's wasn't smart. He said that because every pool player knows that eventually time will catch up with their game, and their game and income will suffer. Despite all the ten's of thousands that Fat's won, he never set any aside for his later years. Therefore, he wasn't very smart in that regard. A fact that holds true for most of the players of that era.

Today's players are smarter in that most of them are setting up for their later years.

My impression of Fats from reading stories about him and listening to him talk in old videos is he probably made a ton of money playing pool and lost it all back at the card table. A lot of today's pool players have the same problem. Top notch pool players but can't stop gambling and are suckers at cards, dice etc.

 

[Neil]

Okay, maybe Fatty was not as smart as he could have been with regard to setting aside money for his later years. On the other hand I have a feeling he lived longer than he expected too, lol.

Also, maybe you or Scott can name another player that died broke (there certainly have been many), yet was "smart" enough to get a hotel owner to put him up for nothing in his last feeble years. Good luck with that, lol.

Anyway this thread was about weak players that were good at hustling an income from pool. I think it would be hard to dispute that Fats was good at hustling an income from pool. However, I doubt he was anyhere near the worst player to make his living that way. In fact while we are on it, what about all the players that "hustle" their living by instruction and exhibitions? Like Scott Lee for instance -- if Scott Lee were to be able to hypothetically challenge Fats say anytime during Fats 40 year "prime" of playing pool, my money would be on Fats. Maybe Scott qualifies more than Fats, lol.

Fats was far from the worse player. In fact, he played under the top guys, but not that far under. I wouldn't call instructors or exhibition shooters as hustlers. They provide a service.

The worst player that ever did it for a living was probably me. But, I only stuck it out for about three years, then tripped and fell back into the rat race. But back then, I was renting an old rundown trailer for $90 a month, gas was cheap, and I don't eat much. Didn't need to win a whole lot to keep going. When my dad died, I moved back to Mich. to take care of my mom and had to get a job. Then got married and had to keep a job.

 

[Scott Lee]

Geez Steve...settle down. You're right, I'm much too young to have "been there"...but Jack White wasn't. He told me of two road trips he made, with Lassiter, Fats and Don Willis. This was in the late 50's before Johnston City. I wasn't really doggin' Fats. I was answering another poster who said Fats was the smartest player ever...which is not the case in my eyes. Jack White was at least one of the smartest poolplayers. He got the cheese...and kept it, and died a millionaire. Yep, there have been PLENTY of jam up poolplayers who ended up broke in life...it could fill a book. There's plenty right now who scuffle from one month to the next. To me that's no quality of life...and certainly wouldn't, imo, qualify as "makin' a living hustling", which is the thread title. Fats could not beat the top players of the day like Eddie Taylor, Wimpy Lassiter, Jimmy Moore, Don Willis and the like. He did manage to hustle Richie Florence for about $30K, and that story is detailed in Dyer's book. It was kind of a gaff bet, and took several days, iirc. I liked Fatty, and saw him do exhibitions several times. Like Jack, Fatty could definitely keep you laughing. I never cared for "the art of the dump" (something that Fatty and even some higher profile players were known to do), even though it was 'the way it was', according to Freddy and some others. I think that behavior shames the game, and has no place. Some others may disagree.

Now I don't know why you want to dog me for trying to bring the game to a higher level to more players, through instruction or exhibitions, but I don't "hustle" anybody. I am always honest about my ability...and I have never even claimed to be any kind of champion, or to haves beaten the King of Siam! LOL What I do is get off my butt and work hard to make a decent living doing something I love. No doubt Mr. Wanderone did that too, well enough to own a home and drive Cadillacs. I think it's a shame that he was homeless in his elder years, and quite fortunate to find a kind soul (and big fan) to house and feed him.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Okay, maybe Fatty was not as smart as he could have been with regard to setting aside money for his later years. On the other hand I have a feeling he lived longer than he expected too, lol.

Also, maybe you or Scott can name another player that died broke (there certainly have been many), yet was "smart" enough to get a hotel owner to put him up for nothing in his last feeble years. Good luck with that, lol.

Anyway this thread was about weak players that were good at hustling an income from pool. I think it would be hard to dispute that Fats was good at hustling an income from pool. However, I doubt he was anyhere near the worst player to make his living that way. In fact while we are on it, what about all the players that "hustle" their living by instruction and exhibitions? Like Scott Lee for instance -- if Scott Lee were to be able to hypothetically challenge Fats say anytime during Fats 40 year "prime" of playing pool, my money would be on Fats. Maybe Scott qualifies more than Fats, lol.