Would you call this great condition?

[howardthedick]

Update on this Ridiculous Thread

I just got off the phone with an old friend of mine in the cue business, "Rick Phillippi" himself. First off, he would not need to take the wrap off to fix the minor imperfection in the butt sleeve. The wrap will have to be taken off to add the inlays Jeff DeLiar wants to add for his "Son". Rick said that is he had known it was my cue and was being taken to social media, he would have simply taken care of it for me. But, when it comes to narcissistic nit, he will never admit he is the problem no matter how many lies he tells. I suggest you seek help Jeff. And far as you are concerned RJ-chalksalesman,
I got a good giggle out of your math skills saying that about half agree with this goofball scammer. Not even close. I will not waste another second of my time on this rubbish.
From the word GO, I was not asked but ordered what I was going to do. I have NEVER heard of ANYONE who wasn't satisfied with a full refund plus shipping both ways and apparently 99.9% of the rest of the population would agree with me. Last but not least,
Salamander you've been in the business long enough, if you don't get it by now, looks like you never will.
I have received several requests for Jeff DeLears eBay Name so that they can BLOCK him from ever bidding on their auctions. Here it is jdxprs@aol.com
Thank you to the rest of you for all the support, I appreciate it very much.
Sincerely,
Greg Howard
Y'all know my phone number as it is included on all my sales and auctions. As I have NOTHING to hide.

 

[alstl]

It isn't great condition but you were offered a refund and turned it down and let your kid keep the cue.

My advice would be get over it.

 

[Salamander]

Greg,

I've done business with you and it went fine. But the very tone of this post with its name calling is beneath you. You offer of total refund was of course within normal bounds of decent business practice. However, it was obvious that the cue was not in "great condition" as advertised given the butt. Like RJ said, I would have made an attempt to help pay for a refinish of the butt sleeve at my cost. We are talking $50 to $100 bucks. If that was still not acceptable to the buyer, then at that juncture I would throw up my hands and say that I'd done all that I can do.

I just got off the phone with an old friend of mine in the cue business, "Rick Phillippi" himself. First off, he would not need to take the wrap off to fix the minor imperfection in the butt sleeve. The wrap will have to be taken off to add the inlays Jeff DeLiar wants to add for his "Son". Rick said that is he had known it was my cue and was being taken to social media, he would have simply taken care of it for me. But, when it comes to narcissistic nit, he will never admit he is the problem no matter how many lies he tells. I suggest you seek help Jeff. And far as you are concerned RJ-chalksalesman,
I got a good giggle out of your math skills saying that about half agree with this goofball scammer. Not even close. I will not waste another second of my time on this rubbish.
From the word GO, I was not asked but ordered what I was going to do. I have NEVER heard of ANYONE who wasn't satisfied with a full refund plus shipping both ways and apparently 99.9% of the rest of the population would agree with me. Last but not least,
Salamander you've been in the business long enough, if you don't get it by now, looks like you never will.
I have received several requests for Jeff DeLears eBay Name so that they can BLOCK him from ever bidding on their auctions. Here it is jdxprs@aol.com
Thank you to the rest of you for all the support, I appreciate it very much.
Sincerely,
Greg Howard
Y'all know my phone number as it is included on all my sales and auctions. As I have NOTHING to hide.

 

[bowiebill]

I just got off the phone with an old friend of mine in the cue business, "Rick Phillippi" himself. First off, he would not need to take the wrap off to fix the minor imperfection in the butt sleeve. The wrap will have to be taken off to add the inlays Jeff DeLiar wants to add for his "Son". Rick said that is he had known it was my cue and was being taken to social media, he would have simply taken care of it for me. But, when it comes to narcissistic nit, he will never admit he is the problem no matter how many lies he tells. I suggest you seek help Jeff. And far as you are concerned RJ-chalksalesman,
I got a good giggle out of your math skills saying that about half agree with this goofball scammer. Not even close. I will not waste another second of my time on this rubbish.
From the word GO, I was not asked but ordered what I was going to do. I have NEVER heard of ANYONE who wasn't satisfied with a full refund plus shipping both ways and apparently 99.9% of the rest of the population would agree with me. Last but not least,
Salamander you've been in the business long enough, if you don't get it by now, looks like you never will.
I have received several requests for Jeff DeLears eBay Name so that they can BLOCK him from ever bidding on their auctions. Here it is jdxprs@aol.com
Thank you to the rest of you for all the support, I appreciate it very much.
Sincerely,
Greg Howard
Y'all know my phone number as it is included on all my sales and auctions. As I have NOTHING to hide.

Greg,

Do you believe a cue described as great condition would sell for the same price on eBay, as a cue that is described as having a damaged butt below the wrap?

And i only asked you to cover the cost of the repair. If you know Rick so well, why not just make things right, like I asked you so nicely to do privately before all of this?

 

[cuesblues]

One more time, if the buyer would have been cool he could have scored big here.
Nobody likes being told what they have to do, not asked.
In addition to Greg Howard's easy going nature, Rick Phillippi said had he known the cue was Greg Howard's, he would have fixed it for free.
I suspect the OP wasn't looking for that solution.

Yes Greg screwed up, but it happens and it was not intentional.
I have bought cues from Greg since 2006, and the first cue was a Mike Bender, worth quite a bit, but there was a bubble in the leather wrap.
I sent the Bender back even though a well known local cuemaker offered to fix it for fifty bucks.
Greg wanted to keep my cue, so he sent me a check, at my price, took the Bender back, and kicked in a signed Steve Klein sneaky, nice cue, a known player uses it as his main playing cue.

There are ways to handle these things, I've sold off an entire collection of 150 cues in the last five years, and I have seen everything go full circle.
Greg would have gone out of his way to get the cue fixed had he been asked and not told.
Oh yes, Greg offered a full refund plus shipping.
I would think that offer is off the table at this point.

 

[bowiebill]

One more time, if the buyer would have been cool he could have scored big here.
Nobody likes being told what they have to do, not asked.
In addition to Greg Howard's easy going nature, Rick Phillippi said had he known the cue was Greg Howard's, he would have fixed it for free.
I suspect the OP wasn't looking for that solution.

Yes Greg screwed up, but it happens and it was not intentional.
I have bought cues from Greg since 2006, and the first cue was a Mike Bender, worth quite a bit, but there was a bubble in the leather wrap.
I sent the Bender back even though a well known local cuemaker offered to fix it for fifty bucks.
Greg wanted to keep my cue, so he sent me a check, at my price, took the Bender back, and kicked in a signed Steve Klein sneaky, nice cue, a known player uses it as his main playing cue.

There are ways to handle these things, I've sold off an entire collection of 150 cues in the last five years, and I have seen everything go full circle.
Greg would have gone out of his way to get the cue fixed had he been asked and not told.
Oh yes, Greg offered a full refund plus shipping.
I would think that offer is off the table at this point.

Ok seriously, that’s a crock of poo. I ASKED Greg very nicely to cover the cost to repair the cue. His response came across as arrogant and too bad if you don’t like it.

Why would you make up that scenario? Would you like to see the messages between Greg and I? I’m guessing you don’t want to, you’d rather just create your own little narrative.

 

[MOJOE]

 

[cuesblues]

Ok seriously, that’s a crock of poo. I ASKED Greg very nicely to cover the cost to repair the cue. His response came across as arrogant and too bad if you don’t like it.

Why would you make up that scenario? Would you like to see the messages between Greg and I? I’m guessing you don’t want to, you’d rather just create your own little narrative.

There is a reason why you didn't get it done with Greg and there's a reason why eBay took your negative feedback or threats or whatever down, I don't know what it was and don't care.
What I do know is to get to this point with Greg Howard takes theeats and blackmail.
You don't think you were threatening Greg or blackmailing Greg, but that is how he took it.
Maybe you should apologize and let me run interference for you, to get that crappy finish fixed for free.
If I bought that cue I would have called Greg on the phone, you had his telephone number, and Greg would have taken care of it.

 

[bowiebill]

There is a reason why you didn't get it done with Greg and there's a reason why eBay took your negative feedback or threats or whatever down, I don't know what it was and don't care.
What I do know is to get to this point with Greg Howard takes theeats and blackmail.
You don't think you were threatening Greg or blackmailing Greg, but that is how he took it.
Maybe you should apologize and let me run interference for you, to get that crappy finish fixed for free.
If I bought that cue I would have called Greg on the phone, you had his telephone number, and Greg would have taken care of it.

Again you are creating your own narrative that is not based on fact.

In reality I sent several messages to Greg proposing fair resolutions. His only responses were that I didn’t pay enough for the cue, and that he had a friend that would pay more, so I should send the cue back to him.

I never blackmailed him. I basically begged him to do the right thing and make a fair resolution for both of us. When he refused, I told him that I was leaving negative feedback. He responded asking me to be honest and admit he offered a refund. I assured him I would do so.

These are the facts. I never threatened or extorted or tried to get money from him.

In retrospect I do wish I would have called him.

 

[Type79]

Greg,

Do you believe a cue described as great condition would sell for the same price on eBay, as a cue that is described as having a damaged butt below the wrap?

If you have the ability to predict the outcome of an eBay auction, you posses a rare talent.

eBay auctions for the identical cues can vary 100% or more from day to day or week to week. What sells for $375 today might sell for $1,500 next week and vice versa. Some auctions that result in no bids are relisted at double and triple the price and someone bids.

 

[Type79]

These are the facts. I never threatened or extorted or tried to get money from him.

You did just that, as shown in your own screenshots of eBay messages to the seller. You threatened to leave negative feedback if he didn't agree to your proposal.

You demanded $100 for what has now turned-out to be a $20 repair.

 

[bowiebill]

You did just that. You threatened to leave negative feedback if he didn't agree to your proposal.

You demanded $100 for what has now turned-out to be a $20 repair.

Again, not true. I asked him to pay the cost of the repair. I posted a picture of that message in this thread. I notified him of the fact that I would leave negative feedback if he wasn’t willing to make it right. It wasn’t a threat.

Why must you continue to push an inaccurate version of the events? It’s ok to be on Greg’s side and still tell the truth.

 

[bowiebill]

If you have the ability to predict the outcome of an eBay auction, you posses a rare talent.

eBay auctions for the identical cues can vary 100% or more from day to day or week to week. What sells for $375 today might sell for $1,500 next week and vice versa. Some auctions that result in no bids are relisted at double and triple the price and someone bids.

I agree that is possible, but I think it likely that people would bid less for a cue that’s damaged than a cue in great condition.

 

[cuesblues]

Again you are creating your own narrative that is not based on fact.

In reality I sent several messages to Greg proposing fair resolutions. His only responses were that I didn’t pay enough for the cue, and that he had a friend that would pay more, so I should send the cue back to him.

I never blackmailed him. I basically begged him to do the right thing and make a fair resolution for both of us. When he refused, I told him that I was leaving negative feedback. He responded asking me to be honest and admit he offered a refund. I assured him I would do so.

These are the facts. I never threatened or extorted or tried to get money from him.

In retrospect I do wish I would have called him.

I do hear you man, and I would have no problem working with you on a cue or case.
Guys I work with all the time respond to my texts sometimes like they can't read.
The questions I get on cues, after everything is fully described, are as if people don't or can't read.
What ever happened to picking up the phone and discussing issues without texting, especially with problems that are easily and often misunderstood.
The other day I sent a buyer a copy of my tracking receipt from USPS, to visualize the tracking number.
I sent out 4 cues at one time so there were 4 tracking numbers, clearly shown going to 4 different states.
My only comment was "pick one" and his response was "one what?"
This is a highly intelligent person and he did not understand I meant pick the tracking number for his package.

My company had to threaten me back in the early 2000's to start communicating via email like everyone else.
I fought email for years until I was reprimanded.
Try dealing with a potentially catastrophic control issue is a big piping system in a hospital, water treatment plant, airport, power plant, it can't be done.
Troubleshooting via email is impossible to do, and there ain't no app for it.

People call me all the time about deals gone bad, and I help them through it.
A lot of stuff happens behind the scenes, and it's really not for human consumption.
My feeling is unless you have been scammed outright, pick up the phone and try to work it out.
If the guy tells you to **** off, then go public every way possible, even buy an AZ banner.

Peace man

 

[SARDiver]

Dead horse, yeah, I get it, but I think the problem stems from one thing, and it applies in each direction:

The assumption that someone else had nefarious motives for acting in the manner he did.

The buyer and others have assumed malfeasance or incompetence for not catching a thumb sized blemish.

The buyer has been accused of trying to scam money out, and has (IMHO) tripped over himself a couple of times by not being precise about what he was asking for.

The seller has explained his error as an honest mistake.

The buyer has explained his inconsistencies as not knowing what to ask for.

Dear God, people, it is possible that neither is dishonest. I see two men fighting like hell over a point of pride, and that revolves around being called a scam artist. Nobody likes that, and while the seller has a long history of honest dealings, the buyer doesn't, which is why he's fighting tooth and nail to explain himself--he doesn't have the same track record to fall back on.

Gonna suggest a general amnesty and a recognition of the other guy's point of view.

Bowiebill, it's actually possible to miss something like that. I think if you honestly believed it was simply an oversight, you wouldn't have gone "social media nuclear" when your desired solution wasn't accepted. You assumed the worst.

Greg, it is entirely possible that Bill had no idea how much a refinish would cost, and if he had been told that a cheap fix was possible, he might have accepted that answer with an apology for its presence. You also assumed the worst.

Now please let it drop. I mentioned cutting the cord and watching the drama here, but this has gotten into soap opera levels, and I hate those.

 

[Poolplaya9]

eBay auctions for the identical cues can vary 100% or more from day to day or week to week.

What the cue might have sold for some other week is absolutely immaterial to whether or not this buyer got the cue he was promised (great condition) for the price that was agreed to (highest bid in this particular auction regardless of what it is). The buyer clearly did not receive what they agreed to and contracted for.

Whether it was still a good deal or not in anyone's opinion is also completely immaterial to whether or not the buyer got the deal that was agreed to and contracted for, which was the cue in great condition in exchange for the highest bid on this particular auction.

What does however affect this auction and the amount of the bids, and is therefore very important and directly relevant to this transaction, is whether the condition was described properly. Here is why. Out of the 20 bidders that bid or however many it was, we all know that some of them would not have bid at all had the cue been accurately described because some people are only in the market for cues that don't need refinish work. It could be that the second place bidder (and maybe third and fourth too) would have been one of these that would not have bid, and so now the buyer would have been competing against the 3rd place (or 5th place) bidder who had a much lower bid and thus the cue would have sold for much less.

And of the ones that would have still bid anyway, even if it would have ended up being everybody (which it wouldn't have), essentially none of them are going to bid the same amount for a cue in great condition as they are for one that is not in great condition. Now we can only speculate on how much less people would have tended to bid in this case, but we all know they would have all bid less. Let's say everybody would have bid about a $100 less than they did had the description been accurate. Well now the second place bidder's highest bid would have been $500 instead of $600, and so this buyer would have (and should have) won the auction with a bid of $510 instead of $610 for example. The incorrectly inflated condition description caused the buyer to have to pay more for the cue than he would have ended up paying had condition been accurately listed correctly. He paid the "great" condition price for a cue that was less than great condition and overpaid as a result.

 

[skankhammer]

I agree that is possible, but I think it likely that people would bid less for a cue that’s damaged than a cue in great condition.

The cue is damaged now? I guess I've missed a few pages I thought it was a chip in the finish.

 

[Poolplaya9]

One more time, if the buyer would have been cool he could have scored big here.

Yes Greg screwed up, but it happens and it was not intentional.
I have bought cues from Greg since 2006, and the first cue was a Mike Bender, worth quite a bit, but there was a bubble in the leather wrap.
I sent the Bender back even though a well known local cuemaker offered to fix it for fifty bucks.
Greg wanted to keep my cue, so he sent me a check, at my price, took the Bender back, and kicked in a signed Steve Klein sneaky, nice cue, a known player uses it as his main playing cue.

Greg would have gone out of his way to get the cue fixed had he been asked and not told.

To be fair, many if not most people treat others differently based on a number of factors which include how likely you are to have to run into them again, and how likely it is that person might be able to benefit you down the road among many others. Cue dealers have more incentive to treat you well than they would most others, particularly some random ebay person, because you are a dealer/collector/prolific buyer and trader etc. They know you run in the same circles and likely have the platform and the clout to gain them or cost them some future deals by sharing your experiences with others. They also know that they are going to have to run into you again many times in the cue dealing and collecting circles, perhaps even in person. They know there is a pretty good chance that they will end up wanting to do a deal/s with you down the road at some point too, etc. Chances for any of this with some random ebay buyer are minimal, and certainly much less than with you. I am not saying that is what happened here, just that I don't think the "this cue dealer treated me right so he would have treated you right too" assumption is probably one you should have too much confidence in given your differing circumstances.

 

[cuesblues]

To be fair, many if not most people treat others differently based on a number of factors which include how likely you are to have to run into them again, and how likely it is that person might be able to benefit you down the road among many others. Cue dealers have more incentive to treat you well than they would most others, particularly some random ebay person, because you are a dealer/collector/prolific buyer and trader etc. They know you run in the same circles and likely have the platform and the clout to gain them or cost them some future deals by sharing your experiences with others. They also know that they are going to have to run into you again many times in the cue dealing and collecting circles, perhaps even in person. They know there is a pretty good chance that they will end up wanting to do a deal/s with you down the road at some point too, etc. Chances for any of this with some random ebay buyer are minimal, and certainly much less than with you. I am not saying that is what happened here, just that I don't think the "this cue dealer treated me right so he would have treated you right too" assumption is probably one you should have too much confidence in given your differing circumstances.

I have never been treated like a "random buyer" on eBay, and it's not good for future business to do that.
Nobody knew who I was back in 2006...they still don't.
AZ Billiards didn't even have the itrader system back then, so other than rep points, you were on your own.
I could have had people vouch for me, but with Greg Howard it wasn't necessary, he is a very trusting soul.
What don't some people understand about kindness.
I get so much free stuff it amazes me sometimes.
Cues, cases, nice stuff, valuable, just for being cool

 

[KRJ]

You are absolutely correct. Based on the way I worded that, I can certainly see why you would think that. The pic is a screen shot of what I actually said in the message to the seller. I shouldn’t have ever stated an amount as I’m uneducated in what is required to repair a cue.

Very reasonable request by a disappointed customer. Either Greg lied about the condition to increase the bidding, or he flat out missed it. Here was a chance for him to at least attempt to make it right, not a chance for him to get the cue back so he can resell it for more money. Meanwhile, the customer has to pack up the cue, go to the post office, stand in line, ship it, hope it makes it there in one piece, and then PRAY he gets refunded every last dime. Because, now, he won't even have the cue ??

If you guys think that is acceptable customer service, than great, most of us do not. It's really that simple.

If he advertised the CUE in the correct condition then a full refund would have been fine but he didin't. That's a fact, and the seller admits that. The day I can't see a flaw in a cue I buy, sell or trade, is the day I get my eyes checked.