Would you value the opinion of a pro over that of a certified instructor?

[manwon]

I'm fond of polls. And with the recent "Skill Level of BCA instructors." I'd like to consolidate those opinions here.

All anonymous, of course.

I do not think that it matters who the advice comes from, a Pro, a certified Instructor, and the guy sitting a chair that know one knows who never plays but always love to watch the match ups. If the advise makes sense, and it is something you can understand, what more would you want. Anyone can have something important to offer and to disregard something simple because some one has no known credentials is simple stupid!!!!!!!

Just my thought's

 

[softshot]

I do not think that it matters who the advice comes from, a Pro, a certified Instructor, and the guy sitting a chair that know one knows who never plays but always love to watch the match ups. If the advise makes sense, and it is something you can understand, what more would you want. Anyone can have something important to offer and to disregard something simple because some one has no known credentials is simple stupid!!!!!!!

Just my thought's

always recognize good advice when you get it... but to me it was more of a
who would you PAY for the info??

kind of question

 

[manwon]

always recognize good advice when you get it... but to me it was more of a
who would you PAY for the info??

kind of question

My point was that good information can come from anyone, if we just listen, and that you do not have to be a Pro or an instructor see things others have missed. However, how many people take the time to evaluate what a stranger has to say, unless they have a title assigned to their name, what a shame is all I can say!!!!!!!

Take care

 

[softshot]

Paying someone to teach you something.. is a long ways away from picking things up along the way.

do you want the "Classically trained Pianist" to fill in for your keyboard player... or are you going to go with the local who can't read music and just says he's good???

do you see what I mean?

 

[!Smorgass Bored]

I've just finished reading a number of threads in this forum and I've decided that I would value the opinion of a Pro, made in China, that would eat an unwrapped cue, while wearing an AZB t-shirt.

Doug
( I only know what I like..... imo)

 

[mullyman]

and why is it only in pool that teachers are called instructors and somehow "devalued"

pffft... guy played so bad he took lessons...

but in all team sports and many individual sports the value of GREAT COACHING is a no brainer...
thats always puzzled me..about pool

That's falls back to my favorite pool joke:

Q: How many pool players does it take to screw in a light bulb?

A: 5. 1 to screw it in and 4 to stand around going "Pfft, I can do that!"

Pool players are egotistical ass clowns. Everyone feels they're better than everyone else except for when it comes to people that are well known to be top notch players, then everyone under them kisses their azz. For what it's worth, I hate hanging around pool players. The egotistical garbage drives me nuts.
MULLY
and yes, I think I'm better than anyone that plays in the room I play at....although I'm probably not.

 

[randyg]

Part of my job description is: Spend time with two pro players a year and at least four instructors a year. This is very rewarding. I get the best of both Worlds.

We should not seperate the two (pro/instructor) but incorporate the knowledge these people have to share with us.

When a student signs up for our Pool School, the first thing I relay to them is this: "School is not the end of your journey but just the beginning."

As many of my students may attest, I have reccomended many of them to see a Pro Player for further assistance......SPF=randyg

 

[mikepage]

I was once at the VNEA junior nationals standing by the speed-break competition watching three adult short stop/pro level players teaching a couple teenagers how to break.

Do A.
Don't do B.
Get C moving before B.
E is crucial for F reason.
yadayadayada

The kids were floundering trying to mimic certain things and follow certain advice. The players didn't notice that the kids weren't ready to hear many of these things because there were more fundamental major problems.

Then Jerry Breiseth walked by and kindly got into the act. The difference was absolutely amazing, like night and day. Jerry had those kids breaking harder and more accurately in FIVE minutes. I wish I had this whole scene on videotape.

People frequently go to the best player in the room for advice on lots of things pool related. And if you know nothing else about the people in a room that's a smart choice. But there is a damaging negative dynamic at work as well. Because we revere the knowledge of the best player, we expect the best player to give the best advice. As a result "best players" sometimes don't continue to learn from others. The culture expects them to be the teacher and not the student.

So ask the best player, and you will get an answer. The answer will be quick and definitive. It might also have gems of important knowledge in it. But I suggest leaving your intellectual guard up. Evaluate the advice and make your own decision of where and how it fits into the world-pool-view you're developing.

Part of my job description is: Spend time with two pro players a year and at least four instructors a year. This is very rewarding. I get the best of both Worlds.

We should not seperate the two (pro/instructor) but incorporate the knowledge these people have to share with us.

When a student signs up for our Pool School, the first thing I relay to them is this: "School is not the end of your journey but just the beginning."

As many of my students may attest, I have reccomended many of them to see a Pro Player for further assistance......SPF=randyg

 

[Scott Lee]

tap, tap, tap!:thumbup:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I was once at the VNEA junior nationals standing by the speed-break competition watching three adult short stop/pro level players teaching a couple teenagers how to break.

Do A.
Don't do B.
Get C moving before B.
E is crucial for F reason.
yadayadayada

The kids were floundering trying to mimic certain things and follow certain advice. The players didn't notice that the kids weren't ready to hear many of these things because there were more fundamental major problems.

Then Jerry Breiseth walked by and kindly got into the act. The difference was absolutely amazing, like night and day. Jerry had those kids breaking harder and more accurately in FIVE minutes. I wish I had this whole scene on videotape.

People frequently go to the best player in the room for advice on lots of things pool related. And if you know nothing else about the people in a room that's a smart choice. But there is a damaging negative dynamic at work as well. Because we revere the knowledge of the best player, we expect the best player to give the best advice. As a result "best players" sometimes don't continue to learn from others. The culture expects them to be the teacher and not the student.

So ask the best player, and you will get an answer. The answer will be quick and definitive. It might also have gems of important knowledge in it. But I suggest leaving your intellectual guard up. Evaluate the advice and make your own decision of where and how it fits into the world-pool-view you're developing.

 

[pooltchr]

I am very fortunate to be able to spend a lot of time with other instructors, professional players, and a LOT of students.

RandyG is a regular houseguest of mine when he is in town. I learn a lot from him when we are teaching together, but I learn quite a bit over the dinner table as well.

I am personal friends with some of the top pro players. I have learned much about how to approach shots and table layouts from the likes of Kelly.

I have also worked with hundreds of students. It is rare that I don't learn something from my students over the course of time we spend together.

I actually even learn something from instructional books on occasion. One example is you can't believe everything you read in books!

The point is, you can always learn something, if you are willing to listen. Everyone has something to offer. Your job is to pick through everything and determine which is accurate and helpful, and which is not.

I try to learn something from everyone I meet.

Steve

 

[dr_dave]

Depends on what you're looking for...for solid instruction I'd go with the instructor...for playing strategy, probably the pro player.

Great summary! I agree.

I would also add that it depends a lot on the specific pro and specific instructor. Some, but probably not many, pros can both offer excellent instructional advice and teach well. And some instructors have an excellent understanding of playing strategy and can help others learn and understand that strategy, because they are also good "teachers."

Regards,
Dave

 

[realkingcobra]

Normally I wouldn't have anything to say in a thread like this, but I thought I'd weigh in a little. First of all, a BCA "certified" instructor at least has to have some kind of credentials to be called "certified", kind of like a school teacher.

Now, a "PRO" player, first of all, one would have to define the terms of "PRO" Does it make a player a "PRO" if they enter a "Pro" tournament? How about just because they play for money? Is there different levels of "PRO"? Can all "PRO'S" teach, or only some?

I think for the basics of pool, instructors are the best, as they are more concerned with the basic fundamentals of the game, as opposed to the strategies of how to play to win. If one does not learn the fundamentals of the game first, any lessons from a "PRO" would go to waste, as the student wouldn't be able to perform the shots in the first place.

IMO, there are two sides of the game of pool to learn,

1) Everything one needs to learn "Behind" the cue ball, being the player as a machine, taught best by an instructor.

2) Everything there is to learn from in front of the cue ball, being the game of pool, strategies, defense, offense, when to take a shot, when not to try and run out, how to out smart your opponet...etc...I think this area of learning is best learned by mimicking who you see and how they play, so one should try to look and learn from all "PRO'S" when advancing to this level of play.

IMO, playing at a "PRO" level, is achieved through the players own desire to excel, and can not be taught by anyone. All the lessons in the world will not turn a player into a champion, if the player don't have the heart to understand everything learned, and apply it to the game.

As a friend of mine use to always say, "You can make a jackass out of a race horse, but you can't make a race horse out of a jackass"

Glen

 

[satman]

I know some very talented players, who have no idea how to explain the reactions a ball makes when hit with English. Can't explain a thing about lining up banks, or kicks. They just know it.
There are instructors, who can teach, but can't play too well. They know the technical parts of a stroke, or why a ball does certain things. I have to agree with a couple of other posters here, it depends on what you're looking to learn. Strategy, most Pro's would be a better place to learn, as long as you know they'll teach you the right things.
No matter which route you go, make sure they can teach you what you need, especially if you're paying for it.

 

[ironman]

I know some very talented players, who have no idea how to explain the reactions a ball makes when hit with English. Can't explain a thing about lining up banks, or kicks. They just know it.
There are instructors, who can teach, but can't play too well. They know the technical parts of a stroke, or why a ball does certain things. I have to agree with a couple of other posters here, it depends on what you're looking to learn. Strategy, most Pro's would be a better place to learn, as long as you know they'll teach you the right things.
No matter which route you go, make sure they can teach you what you need, especially if you're paying for it.

This is a smart response. Some very good players I have known were absolutely clueless as to how to explain what they do so very well day in and day out.

One of the exceptions IMO is the Hillbilly. He is very patient and seems to {for lack of better way to put it} come down to the students level when teaching. Plus, he just loves it.

There are good instructors out there who have lot's to offer, but I feel they need to get to someone when they are in the very early stages and teach the right approach vs. corecting bad habits.

Many pros are good too, but only when asked specifics. Their secrets and philosophies of certain aspects are often to them too difficult to put into terms.

I have seen guys get into a zone and often thought to myself that I would love to be able to record what is going on in their brain at that point. So many times I've seen someone make an incredible out and later when asked about it, you could tell they really didn't remember the whole thing they were just giving conversation or explaining what little they did remember.

Years ago I was betting on Tony Fargo playing Cheyenne Pete banks and with Tony giving like 9-7. It was a tough game for both and of course it went to the hill with Tony making this incredible long bank to win the set. When it was over I asked if he remembered the shot and he said sure. I asked how he knew where to hit the ball and said, Hell, that was easy. I hit it where I always do, I just put a lot of English on it."
I thought, thanks for the information and went about my business. Segal was standing there with us and just laughed.