***WOW*** -R- 360 in progress

Thomas Wayne said:
The finest, most precise and accurate copy of someone else's artistic achievement cannot escape one glaring fact: it's still just a COPY.

TW
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Respecfully, Thomas, I think you're missing the point.

With Jerry R. it's not the design or the art. It's the craftsmanship. Brunswick had 50 years and many resources to perfect their cutting jigs, techniques, and machinery. It's much more difficult to build a cue like this with basic shop tools and just figuring it out yourself from scratch.

There is something about old school craftsmanship that should be appreciated. Just want to point out some of the most famous cuemakers alive today have never built a full spliced a cue - and probably couldn't without a lot of time, sweat, trial and error and practice.

Besides that, I like the old cues. When I see a guy like Jerry building modern day, playable classics like his 26 1/2's and 360's, and doing restoration work on them, it just warms my heart.

Chris
 
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TATE said:
Respectfully, Thomas, I think you're missing the point.

With Jerry R. it's not the design or the art. It's the craftsmanship. Brunswick had 50 years and many resources to perfect their cutting jigs, techniques, and machinery. It's much more difficult to build a cue like this with basic shop tools and just figuring it out yourself from scratch.

There is something about old school craftsmanship that should be appreciated. Just want to point out some of the most famous cuemakers alive today have never hand spliced a cue - and probably couldn't.

Besides that, I like the old cues. When I see a guy like Jerry building modern day, playable classics like his 26 1/2's and 360's, and doing restoration work on them, it just warms my heart.

Chris
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Well said Chris, thank you.

John
 
Really now.

I said it before. This build is nothing magical. It is alot of work. Alot of hours. It requires a sponsor. Time is money to a builder.
Better miters. Cleaner finish work. Newer work. Scott and Jerry have out done an artist. Thier time is not cheap.
With Jerry this build is around 3K. Prices subject to change on a daily basis I am positave.:D
Nick :)
 
Thomas Wayne said:
The finest, most precise and accurate copy of someone else's artistic achievement cannot escape one glaring fact: it's still just a COPY.

TW
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Hi,

When I was a young man learnIng to play blues guitar I would listen to Albert King records and keep moving the needle over and over to copy his licks. Later it was Joe Pass jazz records.

Making tribute cues is a lot like that in a physical perspective. After I mastered those skill sets on the guitar and got it down I then started to learn how to flow with the progressions to express myself artistlcly without thinking as a technician. At that point the last thing I wanted to do is to rip off Albert King or Muddy Waters licks as I learned how to flow effortlessly and express myself through improvisation. Copying those great artists got me to that level.

Cue making is a lot like playing music. You got to pay your dues if you want to play the blues. Rome was not built in a day either.

Rick G
 
John Marshal is a local friend and we've talked many times about the 360 cues. He mentioned Jerry wanting to build one and he did. Nice build Jerry. There are many wanting this design and I look forward to seeing more.


I'm hoping this is Johns cue so I get to hold it. Some cues can't be expressed in photos and this is a design that needs to be held to appreciate it's beauty.

A++ build Jerry.


Full splice is back and the 360 is a great example of it in it's fullest.
 
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Thomas Wayne said:
The finest, most precise and accurate copy of someone else's artistic achievement cannot escape one glaring fact: it's still just a COPY.

TW
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This post is sad.
Yes, he made a copy of a cue that was built 100+ years ago.
So what.
I didn't see him saying anywhere it was "HIS" design.
It's still very hard to do, and his execution is excellent.

Why on earth would you bash another cuemaker on an open forum like this?
Lotsa class.

BTW Wayne, he also doesn't own any 4th axis or CNC machines either.
He does em the old fashioned way......the same way for 30+ years.

Great work Jerry


Chris G<--------------LOVES this "copy"
 
somms69 said:
[...]
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I assumed when you took a cheap shot at me you wanted my full attention.

Until that moment I wasn't even involved in the discussion, so... you know... just for future reference, if you don't want my opinion don't invoke my name.

TW
 
bogey54311 said:
[...]

BTW Wayne, he also doesn't own any 4th axis or CNC machines either.
He does em the old fashioned way......the same way for 30+ years.

[...]
Chris G<--------------LOVES this "copy"
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Oh, I don't know if that's entirely true. If you check out this thread:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=258965

you might notice that he seems to at least have access to CNC. At least that's how I read it.

TW
 
I wonder if we made a list of cuemakers that NEVER took a design element from someone elses cues, how long would that list be? 5, 10 maybe... I'd put the over under at 20 at best.

JV
 
bogey54311 said:
Are you ****ing drunk?


chris G<-------wonders if wayne knows he's talking about the WRONG cuemaker
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Uh, right... my bad. Not drunk, just caught up in "somms69's" opening shot at me, which referenced an older thread about Scott Gracios's 360 "tribute" cue. To be clear, I have no idea whatsoever if Rauenzahn has access to CNC or not. Mea culpa.

However - addressing your statement per Mr. R. - ".. he also doesn't own any 4th axis or CNC machines either" - that's kind an irrelevant point. Everything about copying the 360 design lends itself to the use of fixed jigs, manual mill, and a bandsaw - CNC would not only be wasted it would almost be counter-productive. It's far more efficient and logical to use the straight-line brute force of a mill and the vertical sawing ability of a bandsaw for such an effort.

So gushing about not using CNC to build a "dead nutz" copy of a Brunswick 360 is kind of like bragging about a guy running the NY marathon and saying, "He doesn't even own a hang-glider or scuba gear." Now, tell me he carved it all out with a grapefruit spoon and a steak knife and I'll be duly impressed.

TW
 
Thomas Wayne said:
The finest, most precise and accurate copy of someone else's artistic achievement cannot escape one glaring fact: it's still just a COPY.

TW
Click to expand...

You seem heavily fixated on the 'artistic achievement' of cues and cuemakers.

While its admirable that YOU views cues as works of art, why do all cuemakers have to view their craft as 'art'?
 
Mr. Gracio,

Thank you for your support. I Love your style. You're an AWESOME builder that will always be successful which is assisted by your "CAN DO" attitude.

You never badmouth, hijack, or rain on someone's parade, unlike others on this forum.

I know Mr. -R- feels the same way about you. He has expressed to me many times how super your work looks. I always look forward to seeing cues you two builders construct for others. I can't remember either one of you building a cue that wasn't already discussed, pre-designed and spoken for by your clients.


Word of mouth and reputation..., a lot to be said about that!


John
 
Well......I like them. I can't afford a re-creation, let alone an original, but my respect for the amount of work that was required to execute these cues accurately is pretty big. Not just everyone can and/or will attempt such an endeavor. The fact that Scott really mixed it up with the woods used in each of his examples was a fresh take, and IMHO, breathed new life into an old design. Jerry just prefers to remain more conservative in his approach.

I have to wonder just what separates these cues from those cues that are exact Titlist re-creations? Those appear to be okay, and accepted because of the scarcity of the originals these days. Same goes with the 26 1/2 re-creations I have seen.....so what is it that sets the 360 re-creations apart? All are traced back to the Brunswick Company......not an individual designer within Brunswick. I could see the issue if Brunswick were still producing any and/or all of the models listed above....but that has not been the case for many, many, many years now. No one seems to have issues with the various custom case makers making re-creations of the Brunswick cases. So, given that these are re-creations of 'production' cues and cases.....where is the line to be drawn?
 
I think it's really nice that so many are taking an interest in this vintage design, and Jerry is doing a great job in reproducing these! Even the 180 is a nice version because it's not so busy.

I wish that some in particular would quit poo-pooing every thread on this topic, whether here, or in the cue of the year thread. It's a real downer that I think we could do without... :(
 
Mr Hoppe said:
I think it's really nice that so many are taking an interest in this vintage design, and Jerry is doing a great job in reproducing these! Even the 180 is a nice version because it's not so busy.

I wish that some in particular would quit poo-pooing every thread on this topic, whether here, or in the cue of the year thread. It's a real downer that I think we could do without... :(
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Mr. -R- looks to have done a splendid recreation on the "360".....and I couldn't agree with this last statement more !!
 
Thomas Wayne said:
The finest, most precise and accurate copy of someone else's artistic achievement cannot escape one glaring fact: it's still just a COPY.

TW
Click to expand...

Jerry has spent a lot of time learning some skills that seem to have been lost before you were born. If you aren't interested in using these techniques, fine - but why insult another cue maker who is doing something that is good for the hobby?

While I have respect for the skills it takes to create all the fancy perfectly-sharp inlays that seem to get today's cue collectors (and cue makers) excited, it's great to see cue makers like Scott and Jerry successfully bringing back some of the old techniques. Good for them.
 
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