wow SVB forfeits match vs Alcano

[Neil]

I don't know if he was calling his shot in win 2 or if he was just sighting down his cue. I don't know why he would call that one but not the first or third. Either way nothing was said in his first win or his third win and that's my biggest gripe with it. If you're going to call it then call it every time or don't call it at all.

As for Alcano calling all of his 10 balls, someone correct me if I'm wrong but most of the videos I watch, it's pretty common for someone from the Philippines to call the money ball no matter the game even if it is obvious.

I understand it must have been part of the rules, but you can't tell me that rule was made for instances like this. If you are going to be that strict about it I guess it's time to bring out the patches again. Tournaments around here you are supposed to patch the 8 but 99% of the time people don't. I've called 1 guy on not patching it and that's only because he did it to me the first game.

The only way I can understand people agreeing that this was an okay thing to do is if you actually believe Shane was going for the side pocket and missed so bad he made it in the corner....

It doesn't matter one iota what your local rules are. Or what you guys normally do locally. This was a professional tournament. They have rules in place. The players are supposed to act professionally and know the rules and abide by them.

You can't just go making up your own rules, or disregarding certain rules because you aren't used to them or don't like them, and still claim you are acting professionally.

 

[f210]

First of all, there is no audio so we cannot know for sure if Shane was given a warning or if the referee made the call without Alcano pointing it out. Rules are rules and as one poster pointed out, Shane actually made a gesture to point out where he intended the ball to go in one of his won games even if was pretty obvious.

So taking this in consideration, Shane most probably knew about this rule and it was just a mental lapse on his part not to call it on this particular shot. With this in mind, why should Alcano be blamed for this incident even if he sided with the referee? It is the player's responsibility after all to know all the rules and if one does not follow it, then he should be penalized accordingly. I am pretty sure it was not the referee's nor Alcano's intention for Shane to just forfeit the match. If you were Alcano, if you saw your opponent make an error, would you just sit quietly and not call attention to it? Why should Shane get special treatment?

 

[Jaden]

not according to Shane...

There's no "move" here.
The referee is the one who initiated the call.
He did not hear Shane call the 10 ball—plain and simple.

As I said in a previous post, Ronnie had nothing to do with this call.

According to Shane, Alcano pointed it out to the ref who THEN stated it was a foul and loss of game.

Jaden

 

[Kid Dynomite]

Ya know, if there are tournament rules,,,, people need to follow them,PERIOD! I guess if your SVB, you can do what you want when you want how you want! That's all fine and dandy, but I'll say this, SVB is lucky I'm not one of his sponsors!!!

He would get a public reprimand, and I would take a yr off his sponsorship for acting unsportsmanlike! Not sure about you, but if I'm a business and I'm sponsoring you, I expect 2 things, play your best and act accordingly! Unscrewing after a mistake on your own part only shows me your a little *****!

Yes he plays incredible, not talking about his game! Talking about his behavior! Ain't cool in my book!

And I like Shane!!!

By default, the player at the table should be allowed the pocket closest to the money ball!!!

Any deviation from the pocket closest to the money ball, would have to be called!!!

This is the way it really needs to be worded in rule books, IMO!

based on this, if the 10 ball is hanging on the pocket shelf. Then the player watching the shot 'MUST" assume the ball is going in that pocket. if it spits out the pocket and goes in somewhere else then spot it up. Not a win and not a loss of game!

KD

 

[liakos]

I highly suggest you watch the entire match. Shane hardly ever actually called a pocket unless he was having to make a choice. Watch rack 5 take place. Shane jumps the one in without calling it. Shoots the two without calling it. Shoots the 3 without calling it. Basically Shane didn't get called on his previous 'fouls' with the ref watching. Why suddenly on the 10 ball?

No need to watch really anything. He was called on a foul and he unscrewed his cue! Like I said, if I'm sponsoring you,,,, play your game! He didn't get called before, fine! In my book, the only time you unscrew is when the match is over,,,,completely!

I'm not trying to argue, I'm just looking at it from a business point of view!

 

[Jaden]

Nope...

The rules change all the time and that's what players meetings are for. I have played no-9 or 10Ball on the break, no-9 or 10Ball in the corner pockets where the ball are racked, but fine in any other pocket, all ball fouls, cue ball only fouls, break from the box only, break from any place behind the head string, the new break rule of three balls past the head string(bad rule).

The point being that its not poor sportsmanship on the part of the incoming player to point out a rule infraction. Yes he could have said no big deal, but this is business, this is how he makes a living and the checks can be few and far between at this level, this aint some regional tournament with two A-level players and a bunch of C-level players.

Its business and he played by the rules.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSHVp6VDGR0

After the first time you cordially mention to the opponent that he needs to call the pocket per the rules.

You don't make a douche bag move with this it's the rules, it's the rules...

I would still like to know if it was spelled out to explicitly call the ten every time or if it was stated that it was call shot.

Call shot is not that same as explicitly call shot...

Jaden

 

[Dockter]

It doesn't matter one iota what your local rules are. Or what you guys normally do locally. This was a professional tournament. They have rules in place. The players are supposed to act professionally and know the rules and abide by them.

You can't just go making up your own rules, or disregarding certain rules because you aren't used to them or don't like them, and still claim you are acting professionally.

So you don't agree that the ref should have called it before? As I stated that's my major gripe with it. He did it in the first game, even if the ref would have warned him the first win then the 3rd would have been a loss of game. How does it get to what would have been the 4th win before it's actually called?

 

[Billiardbills]

Reading the comments and what I thought when seeing it was that he didn't call the 10 ball and they called him for it. You can see it in his face that he is aggravated...

They said the other guy wasn't calling all either...

I guess it is just like the NFL and it matters what ref saw what on each play...

Read the pic...

 

[Billiardbills]

I run tournaments (nothing like this) and it REALLY sucks sometimes being the operator when guys put you in a bad spot by playing "the rule stickler guy" that makes everyone's day miserable and they know it and do not follow all of the rules.

However in this case, it seems that the ref really called him out on it... My thoughts are, if the other player didn't have an issue, neither do I. I let those things try and work themselves out myself. Or maybe a warning or something...

 

[mikeyfrost]

I like SVB to quit the match, still win the tourney get paid and never come back. That's disrespectful

 

[Neil]

So you don't agree that the ref should have called it before? As I stated that's my major gripe with it. He did it in the first game, even if the ref would have warned him the first win then the 3rd would have been a loss of game. How does it get to what would have been the 4th win before it's actually called?

I agree that the ref blew it too. Not much good having a ref at the table that doesn't ref except when he feels like it.

 

[Hits 'em Hard]

No need to watch really anything. He was called on a foul and he unscrewed his cue! Like I said, if I'm sponsoring you,,,, play your game! He didn't get called before, fine! In my book, the only time you unscrew is when the match is over,,,,completely!

I'm not trying to argue, I'm just looking at it from a business point of view!

Way to miss the point. The ref is a nit. Why? Because there were plenty of other shots not called, and were pocketed without a warning. If Shane had previously completed three racks with very few balls actually called and didn't receive a warning or have a foul called on him. The ref should have enough ethics to allow one pass, for both himself and Shane. But since the ref didn't like paying attention to the game at hand. Which can be seen by his many looks towards tables he's not refereeing. Why is Shane getting punished for the ref's **** ups?

 

[Jaden]

really that doesn't mean anything...

Yeah, I just went through and watched the whole thing and Ronnie did call every 10-ball, even a 2-foot straight-in shot into a side pocket. Also, on Shane's 2nd 10-ball into the lower right pocket he actually did indicate with his stick that it was the intended pocket, and that one was very obvious as well (see frame capture below).

So now I don't know what to think about it. The video has no sound, maybe it's possible that Alcano had mentioned it to him previously and let a few slide before he got irritated with it. At any rate, it seems to me that Ronnie knew the intended 10-ball pocket had to be verbally or physically indicated, and that Shane also knew or he wouldn't have pointed to the corner pocket on his easy hanger.

Or maybe I should have just refrained from judgment since I didn't have all the facts.

When I play a call shot tourney, I call every tenball and most other shots...

that doesn't mean my opponent should. If it's a carom or combo etc... I will ask him what he is intending to shoot if he doesn't specify because I DON'T want to call a foul on him for that chicken shit reason (when it ISN'T obvious).

If he doesn't, I'll make sure after that, that he needs to call the non-obvious shots.

If I was in a tournament where it explicitly stated that you had to call the ten and my opponent didn't. I would remind him that he's required to.

Just this year at the USBTC, I went up to Hunter Lombardo after his match with Mika and asked him why he didn't call out Mika for not calling the ten since it was a call tenball event, he said he wasn't gonna make that kind of move.

I wasn't meaning for him to call it a foul but just let him know that he needed to call it cause Mika didn't call any of the tens that he shot and the one I was referring to was a bank.

He didn't even want to do that, he won anyways, but I thought that he should've just mentioned that he was supposed to.

Jaden

 

[Dockter]

I agree that the ref blew it too. Not much good having a ref at the table that doesn't ref except when he feels like it.

That's my only problem with it. Everyone can say they wouldn't take the win but if you're Alcano and in that situation it's a whole different story with money on the line so I'm not blaming him. I don't like that Shane gave him that match after that as there was still a comeback for him to make but I do understand being frustrated in that situation at yourself and the inconsistency of the ref.

 

[tashworth19191]

I once had a guy let me shoot the wrong ball in a 9-Ball game and I forfeited and told him if he needed to win that bad, he needed it more than I do... So here you go... Ever since I play the guy in a tournament, I play nothing but hide the cue ball and get one ball in hand after another. Finally, he got mad and said why are you playing safeties every shot when you can easily make the ball. I said just like you did me, nothing in the rules say you have to tell me that I am shooting the wrong ball and nothing it the rules say I can't play safe on every shot.

 

[BRussell]

According to Shane, Alcano pointed it out to the ref who THEN stated it was a foul and loss of game.



Jaden

That is not what Shane said. He said the ref and Alcano told him he had to call the ball.

 

[StuartTKelley]

I think this game should have been given to Shane out of respect but apparently there is some bad blood there so I don't suppose he should have expected anything other than that result given the personal history. That being said, you don't really punish your opponent by walking away from the match. If you're SVB you stay there and punish him by running out the set. The only thing walking away does is leave some doubt as to who would have won. Sounds like it wasn't going Shane's way for once.

 

[Neil]

Way to miss the point. The ref is a nit. Why? Because there were plenty of other shots not called, and were pocketed without a warning. If Shane had previously completed three racks with very few balls actually called and didn't receive a warning or have a foul called on him. The ref should have enough ethics to allow one pass, for both himself and Shane. But since the ref didn't like paying attention to the game at hand. Which can be seen by his many looks towards tables he's not refereeing. Why is Shane getting punished for the ref's **** ups?

That's a pretty distorted view of looking at things. You say the ref should have allowed a free pass, then state that he allowed several free passes. So, when the ref does finally do his job, he's at fault for finally doing what he is supposed to do??

Ever get stopped for speeding, and then trying the excuse of telling the cop that you speed through that area all the time, and he never ticketed you, so he shouldn't give you one now that he caught you? That's exactly what you are saying the ref should do.

Shane wasn't being punished for the ref's mistakes at all. In fact, he benefited from the refs mistakes. He got punished for HIS mistake that he finally got called on. Big, big difference.

 

[Neil]

I once had a guy let me shoot the wrong ball in a 9-Ball game and I forfeited and told him if he needed to win that bad, he needed it more than I do... So here you go... Ever since I play the guy in a tournament, I play nothing but hide the cue ball and get one ball in hand after another. Finally, he got mad and said why are you playing safeties every shot when you can easily make the ball. I said just like you did me, nothing in the rules say you have to tell me that I am shooting the wrong ball and nothing it the rules say I can't play safe on every shot.

Your'e in a competition, and you forfeit because your opponent didn't help you win?? WOW! Nothing quite like blaming your opponent for your mistake.

 

[Jaden]

correct...

That is not what Shane said. He said the ref and Alcano told him he had to call the ball.

I went back and looked at my facebook and you are correct sir...

Jaden