WPA Failure: International Olympic Committee

From reading the IOC article, it appears that the new sports were nominated by the Japan organizing committee. So these sports are probably very popular or the "next big thing" in Japan at the moment. Billiards may not be the very popular and therefore given less consideration. I would imagine popular national sports are regularly added to an Olympic games held in each particular country/city. From these, the sports that have the best showing are then added permanently. I believe that is how Curling first appeared in the winter games.

Then again, I may be completely wrong about all of this.

Now, if they ever have the Olympics in the Phillipines...

Japan is into billiards. The cross promotion between countries could be better. The WPA has no interest in creating a billiard culture. Something as simple as a viral video or a global pool icon.

Also notice the lack of connection to the WPA or a goal of promoting billiards for the olympics in the Japanese billiards based websites.

I posted some links to Japanese sites with some translation. Its high quality, Japanese are good at technology.

Check out the main league in Japan, its been translated.
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.poolplayers.jp/&prev=search


I met someone from onthehill.jp in Charlie William 14.1 event awhile back. I consider it equivalent to AZB.
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.onthehill.jp/&prev=search
 
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I'm not sure why the WPA is getting dumped on re: Olympic Games inclusion. I served on the WPA board for 16 years (1991-2007), and I'm quite familiar with how a sport may gain inclusion onto the Olympic program. WPA and BCA have little to do with the process. The BCA is the N. American affiliate to the WPA in pool only (not carom nor snooker) and has no international presence. The BCA is also NOW (as of 2004) strictly a trade association and has little to do with the playing side of the sport. It has 1 1/2 employees currently and its primary goal is to produce the BCA Billiard Expo annually. Olympic Games inclusion is an international process over which BCA has no involvement. On the other hand, the WPA is the pool arm (sharing with UMB in carom and IBSF/WPBSA in snooker) to the permanent member for cue sports to the International Olympic Committee (IOC) - the World Confederation of Billiard Sports (WCBS). The WCBS gained permanent membership to the IOC in 1998. The WCBS was responsible for gaining inclusion of cue sports (pool/carom/snooker) into the World Games program. The IOC supports the World Games indirectly, because the World Games serves a purpose of featuring sports that have not gained Olympic Games program status. [It takes a bit of the heat off the IOC of sports continually knocking on their door for Olympic Games program inclusion). Any criticism of BCA/WPA/WCBS re: Olympic Games program inclusion is a bit naïve. It's really all about logistics. The Olympic Games are maxed out as far as host cities being able to host the number of athletes and support parties (they've hit "gargantuism" proportions). To include a new sport, the IOC often must remove a current sport. 10,000 athletes + support parties are typically the max a host city can accommodate. A host city Organizing Committee may solicit and nominate a demonstration sport for THEIR Olympics, but cue sports best opportunity towards that goal would be to have a strong local cue sport body within the country of the host city that can effectively solicit consideration from the local city's Organizing Committee. I'm only aware of one such occurrence - the Greek Billiard Federation President making an effective presentation for the 2004 Athens Games. The committee was positively impressed, but they nominated another sport...and the sport they DID nominate was rejected by the IOC. So....it's not an easy process. What we CAN do nationally is affiliate to the our own National Olympic Committee (NOC) - the USOC. There are approx. 200 NOCs around the world tied in to the IOC. But nothing in the USA is even remotely structured in a fashion that could successfully apply (much less gain acceptance) to the USOC. Again, the BCA is strictly a trade association these days, so don't look to the BCA to lead this process. I worked for the BCA for 14 years and am currently employed by the American CueSports Alliance (ACS) and volunteer as Secretary to the United States Snooker Assn. (USSA). I may or may not take on the challenge in a few years when I am retired and not associated with any organization to work with ALL the credible player associations within our USA sport (incl. the BCA) to construct a plan to successfully apply and gain acceptance to the USOC. - John Lewis
 
Not really. I'm going from memory alone, and invite corrections.

The BCA took the path that would give pool a chance to gain Olympic status. The first step on this path was to get the sport into the World Games. That goal was achieved by BCA Executive Director Steve Ducoff in, if I recall correctly, 2001. Had pool garnered enough attention as a sport in the World Games, it would have become an Olympic demonstration sport, which would have put it in good position to become an Olympic sport. Unfortunately, pool was not a big enough success at the World Games to make it to the next step, so the process fizzled.

As for climbing, it's like snowboarding --- a fast growing sport garnering more and more attention. That's why snowboarding got in not so long ago, and that's why climbing is on its way in to the Games.

Here, in a hotbed of pool interest, the pool event at this year's World Games got virtually NO discussion. If the people who care most about the game don't care enough to follow the closest thing to being in the Olympics, why should anyone? And why should the Olympics add it? Sadly, I think pool drags down snooker and 3C's chances of getting in, as they both seem to have somewhat more robust international organizations.
 
I'm not sure why the WPA is getting dumped on re: Olympic Games inclusion. I served on the WPA board for 16 years (1991-2007), and I'm quite familiar with how a sport may gain inclusion onto the Olympic program. WPA and BCA have little to do with the process. The BCA is the N. American affiliate to the WPA in pool only (not carom nor snooker) and has no international presence. The BCA is also NOW (as of 2004) strictly a trade association and has little to do with the playing side of the sport. It has 1 1/2 employees currently and its primary goal is to produce the BCA Billiard Expo annually. Olympic Games inclusion is an international process over which BCA has no involvement. On the other hand, the WPA is the pool arm (sharing with UMB in carom and IBSF/WPBSA in snooker) to the permanent member for cue sports to the International Olympic Committee (IOC) - the World Confederation of Billiard Sports (WCBS). The WCBS gained permanent membership to the IOC in 1998. The WCBS was responsible for gaining inclusion of cue sports (pool/carom/snooker) into the World Games program. The IOC supports the World Games indirectly, because the World Games serves a purpose of featuring sports that have not gained Olympic Games program status. [It takes a bit of the heat off the IOC of sports continually knocking on their door for Olympic Games program inclusion). Any criticism of BCA/WPA/WCBS re: Olympic Games program inclusion is a bit naïve. It's really all about logistics. The Olympic Games are maxed out as far as host cities being able to host the number of athletes and support parties (they've hit "gargantuism" proportions). To include a new sport, the IOC often must remove a current sport. 10,000 athletes + support parties are typically the max a host city can accommodate. A host city Organizing Committee may solicit and nominate a demonstration sport for THEIR Olympics, but cue sports best opportunity towards that goal would be to have a strong local cue sport body within the country of the host city that can effectively solicit consideration from the local city's Organizing Committee. I'm only aware of one such occurrence - the Greek Billiard Federation President making an effective presentation for the 2004 Athens Games. The committee was positively impressed, but they nominated another sport...and the sport they DID nominate was rejected by the IOC. So....it's not an easy process. What we CAN do nationally is affiliate to the our own National Olympic Committee (NOC) - the USOC. There are approx. 200 NOCs around the world tied in to the IOC. But nothing in the USA is even remotely structured in a fashion that could successfully apply (much less gain acceptance) to the USOC. Again, the BCA is strictly a trade association these days, so don't look to the BCA to lead this process. I worked for the BCA for 14 years and am currently employed by the American CueSports Alliance (ACS) and volunteer as Secretary to the United States Snooker Assn. (USSA). I may or may not take on the challenge in a few years when I am retired and not associated with any organization to work with ALL the credible player associations within our USA sport (incl. the BCA) to construct a plan to successfully apply and gain acceptance to the USOC. - John Lewis

Your posting here is really appreciated, as is your insight into this particular situation.

I would however like to ask why neither you nor anyone else from the WPA will answer the following two questions that get asked of the WPA on here repeatedly. They are:

---Why doesn't the WPA have processes in place that guarantee that in WPA sanctioned events the promoters will pay out what was advertised, that the players will get paid in full, and that the players will be paid on time? Many people feel that this should be the WPA's highest priority, and in fact some feel that it is of such importance that it should be the only priority until such time that it can be accomplished after which you can then worry about trying to provide other services.

---How is the WPA of any real and substantial value to the players, fans, promoters, or the game? What services of great benefit does the WPA provide that would be noticeably and sorely missed if the WPA did not exist?

I know that Ian did an interview on ABR but those questions did not get sufficiently answered. To get people behind you, you are going to have to be willing and able to show where you bring real and significant value and that just isn't clear to what I believe to be the vast majority of people. You also have to be able to show that you care, and refusing to answer persistent and legitimate questions demonstrates quite the opposite in most people's minds. Feel free to start a new thread when you answer them if you prefer so that this one isn't taken too far off track.

Here are just a few of the many threads where these questions have been repeatedly asked and as always ignored.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=432237
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=458635
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=438846
 
I'm not sure why the WPA is getting dumped on re: Olympic Games inclusion. I served on the WPA board for 16 years (1991-2007), and I'm quite familiar with how a sport may gain inclusion onto the Olympic program. WPA and BCA have little to do with the process. The BCA is the N. American affiliate to the WPA in pool only (not carom nor snooker) and has no international presence. The BCA is also NOW (as of 2004) strictly a trade association and has little to do with the playing side of the sport. It has 1 1/2 employees currently and its primary goal is to produce the BCA Billiard Expo annually. Olympic Games inclusion is an international process over which BCA has no involvement. On the other hand, the WPA is the pool arm (sharing with UMB in carom and IBSF/WPBSA in snooker) to the permanent member for cue sports to the International Olympic Committee (IOC) - the World Confederation of Billiard Sports (WCBS). The WCBS gained permanent membership to the IOC in 1998. The WCBS was responsible for gaining inclusion of cue sports (pool/carom/snooker) into the World Games program. The IOC supports the World Games indirectly, because the World Games serves a purpose of featuring sports that have not gained Olympic Games program status. [It takes a bit of the heat off the IOC of sports continually knocking on their door for Olympic Games program inclusion). Any criticism of BCA/WPA/WCBS re: Olympic Games program inclusion is a bit naïve. It's really all about logistics. The Olympic Games are maxed out as far as host cities being able to host the number of athletes and support parties (they've hit "gargantuism" proportions). To include a new sport, the IOC often must remove a current sport. 10,000 athletes + support parties are typically the max a host city can accommodate. A host city Organizing Committee may solicit and nominate a demonstration sport for THEIR Olympics, but cue sports best opportunity towards that goal would be to have a strong local cue sport body within the country of the host city that can effectively solicit consideration from the local city's Organizing Committee. I'm only aware of one such occurrence - the Greek Billiard Federation President making an effective presentation for the 2004 Athens Games. The committee was positively impressed, but they nominated another sport...and the sport they DID nominate was rejected by the IOC. So....it's not an easy process. What we CAN do nationally is affiliate to the our own National Olympic Committee (NOC) - the USOC. There are approx. 200 NOCs around the world tied in to the IOC. But nothing in the USA is even remotely structured in a fashion that could successfully apply (much less gain acceptance) to the USOC. Again, the BCA is strictly a trade association these days, so don't look to the BCA to lead this process. I worked for the BCA for 14 years and am currently employed by the American CueSports Alliance (ACS) and volunteer as Secretary to the United States Snooker Assn. (USSA). I may or may not take on the challenge in a few years when I am retired and not associated with any organization to work with ALL the credible player associations within our USA sport (incl. the BCA) to construct a plan to successfully apply and gain acceptance to the USOC. - John Lewis

If since 2004 the BCA has only been responsible for the Expo and not the playing side of the game, who has?
So I read this that the US has had no affiliated organisation for the past 13 years.
How can the WPA allow the BCA to change their role without having a plan for the void to be filled.
 
I'm not sure why the WPA is getting dumped on re: Olympic Games inclusion. I served on the WPA board for 16 years (1991-2007), and I'm quite familiar with how a sport may gain inclusion onto the Olympic program. WPA and BCA have little to do with the process. The BCA is the N. American affiliate to the WPA in pool only (not carom nor snooker) and has no international presence. The BCA is also NOW (as of 2004) strictly a trade association and has little to do with the playing side of the sport. It has 1 1/2 employees currently and its primary goal is to produce the BCA Billiard Expo annually. Olympic Games inclusion is an international process over which BCA has no involvement. On the other hand, the WPA is the pool arm (sharing with UMB in carom and IBSF/WPBSA in snooker) to the permanent member for cue sports to the International Olympic Committee (IOC) - the World Confederation of Billiard Sports (WCBS). The WCBS gained permanent membership to the IOC in 1998. The WCBS was responsible for gaining inclusion of cue sports (pool/carom/snooker) into the World Games program. The IOC supports the World Games indirectly, because the World Games serves a purpose of featuring sports that have not gained Olympic Games program status. [It takes a bit of the heat off the IOC of sports continually knocking on their door for Olympic Games program inclusion). Any criticism of BCA/WPA/WCBS re: Olympic Games program inclusion is a bit naïve. It's really all about logistics. The Olympic Games are maxed out as far as host cities being able to host the number of athletes and support parties (they've hit "gargantuism" proportions). To include a new sport, the IOC often must remove a current sport. 10,000 athletes + support parties are typically the max a host city can accommodate. A host city Organizing Committee may solicit and nominate a demonstration sport for THEIR Olympics, but cue sports best opportunity towards that goal would be to have a strong local cue sport body within the country of the host city that can effectively solicit consideration from the local city's Organizing Committee. I'm only aware of one such occurrence - the Greek Billiard Federation President making an effective presentation for the 2004 Athens Games. The committee was positively impressed, but they nominated another sport...and the sport they DID nominate was rejected by the IOC. So....it's not an easy process. What we CAN do nationally is affiliate to the our own National Olympic Committee (NOC) - the USOC. There are approx. 200 NOCs around the world tied in to the IOC. But nothing in the USA is even remotely structured in a fashion that could successfully apply (much less gain acceptance) to the USOC. Again, the BCA is strictly a trade association these days, so don't look to the BCA to lead this process. I worked for the BCA for 14 years and am currently employed by the American CueSports Alliance (ACS) and volunteer as Secretary to the United States Snooker Assn. (USSA). I may or may not take on the challenge in a few years when I am retired and not associated with any organization to work with ALL the credible player associations within our USA sport (incl. the BCA) to construct a plan to successfully apply and gain acceptance to the USOC. - John Lewis

One word: PARAGRAPHS!!
 
[...] To get people behind you, you are going to have to be willing and able to show where you bring real and significant value and that just isn't clear to what I believe to be the vast majority of people. [...]

I get what you're saying.

But if we are in a catch-22 situation where the organizational structure is ineffective without broad support from the community and the community withholds support until the organization is effective....

...maybe this request should be about describing a vision rather that who gets what from whom....
 
Paragraphs?

One word: PARAGRAPHS!!
Haha, this WAS a John Lewis paragraph. He packs more information in a single paragraph, than most can do with an entire tome, ghost written by a scholar of English Letters.

Instead of being snippy, and appreciating the input of one of the most knowledgeable people in the pool world today, you decided to jump on him for his forum etiquette.

Next time, how about saying "Hey fishpool, thanks for that info. I needed to break it up into segments, so I wouldn't get overwhelmed with all the information you gave us. Good stuff! "
 
Haha, this WAS a John Lewis paragraph. He packs more information in a single paragraph, than most can do with an entire tome, ghost written by a scholar of English Letters.

Instead of being snippy, and appreciating the input of one of the most knowledgeable people in the pool world today, you decided to jump on him for his forum etiquette.

Next time, how about saying "Hey fishpool, thanks for that info. I needed to break it up into segments, so I wouldn't get overwhelmed with all the information you gave us. Good stuff! "

Sorry, no one is brilliant enough to disrespect his readers and get them to read anyway.

What does it profit you to out forth a brilliant screed if no one reads it because you write like an illiterate?
 
Like a straight edge on concrete

Sorry, no one is brilliant enough to disrespect his readers and get them to read anyway.

What does it profit you to out forth a brilliant screed if no one reads it because you write like an illiterate?
LOL, that you found his writing, not only tedious, but disrespectful, causes me concern that you have little contact with eclectic personalities.

You may disregard my defense of his ineptitudes with a "shift-enter" function. However, please do not disregard his "brilliance" on the matters of pool and billiards.

John Lewis has forgotten more about pool than 90% of the people who post on AZ.
 
Is chess an Olympic event?
Too slow like pool?
Speed pool might make it more exciting.
 
LOL, that you found his writing, not only tedious, but disrespectful, causes me concern that you have little contact with eclectic personalities.

You may disregard my defense of his ineptitudes with a "shift-enter" function. However, please do not disregard his "brilliance" on the matters of pool and billiards.

John Lewis has forgotten more about pool than 90% of the people who post on AZ.

Never said it was tedious. I don't know, because he made it more difficult to read than it was worth, to me.
 
Olympic Games inclusion is an international process over which BCA has no involvement. On the other hand, the WPA is the pool arm (sharing with UMB in carom and IBSF/WPBSA in snooker) to the permanent member for cue sports to the International Olympic Committee (IOC) - the World Confederation of Billiard Sports (WCBS). The WCBS gained permanent membership to the IOC in 1998. The WCBS was responsible for gaining inclusion of cue sports (pool/carom/snooker) into the World Games program. The IOC supports the World Games indirectly, because the World Games serves a purpose of featuring sports that have not gained Olympic Games program status. [It takes a bit of the heat off the IOC of sports continually knocking on their door for Olympic Games program inclusion). Any criticism of BCA/WPA/WCBS re: Olympic Games program inclusion is a bit naïve.

The competent group capable of making progress is WCBS. While the WPA and UMB each manage their own industry affairs but have no interest in supporting the WCBS during the IOC appeal.

Suppose a random IOC member talked to a pro pool player. Would the average pool player be prepped as of today by the WPA on how to promote the sport? No. That situation only gets worse when you start thinking about camera crews, and interviews and press releases.

If the WPA knew what they were doing they would at least have some direction on how players (ambassadors of the sport) should promote the sport.

The WPA has the official title as pool authority by WCBS, but how much development are they doing with their players. It seems limited to forcing them to sign membership cards and pay administrative fees. Sure they get events and points but that is standard for governing body sanctioned competitions in any sport.

If the players don't know what direction the sport is going, that is a failure of the leadership organizing the sport.

WCBS is competent in advancing the sport. The WPA are they advancing the sport, or just helping things stay about level? From the looks of it, no new initiatives have started and collaboration with pro players is non-existent.

If pro pool players don't see a future in the WPA, they just organize their own local sport organizations. It is because the lack of collaboration by the WPA in investing in the knowledge and overly experienced pro players that stuck around for so long thinking people in the WPA know what the "right thing" is and will act on it.

But the WPA was too high and mighty to think "pro pool players" know anything. Despite the fact that several have started organizations and major pool events, which have run repeatedly and successfully. How many of the WPA members created something from nothing?
 
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Sorry abut the one-paragraph response explaining the Olympic process. I seldom post on threads (I really don't have much time for doing so, and I'll try to go back into my cubby hole after this post and get back to my work promoting the sport in the capacity I do), but I was afraid if I tapped the tab button, the post might go public prematurely.

There....I did it.

RE: the playa9 inquiry from 9-26-17 In defending the international bodies of our sport and an organization's President such as Ian Anderson, a couple things you need to understand:

1). Ian Anderson is a strong President who has a great understanding of any international issues within pool sports. He volunteers his time. Every President can be criticized, and I've had my own disagreements with Ian. But overall Ian is a pretty good leader. He alone - and his board of directors - cannot control all aspects of international pool, but they do the best they can in the voluntary positions they hold. This can open them up to disgruntled players and wonderment that they're not doing more. But I don't believe they should apologize for their efforts.

2). When the IOC accepted the WCBS as its permanent member for cue sports in 1998, it recognized pool/billiards/snooker (cue sports in general) as a sport. Feel free to use that fact if you're ever debating the sport vs. game merits with your friends. That pretty much closes the argument in favor of "sport."

3). The various international bodies for our sport - WCBS (IOC-affiliated)/WPA (pool)/IBSF (snooker)/UMB(carom) are not strongly-financially endowed organizations, and in most cases are run by volunteers - not fully-salaried staff - and in some cases....very part-time out of various people's houses. The WPBSA (hitched to the IBSF in snooker under the WCBS banner) [and the current WCBS President is WPBSA Chairman Jason Ferguson] is fairly well endowed financially compared to the others due to the remarkable 40-year television/sponsorship run snooker has had in the UK and Asia, so WPBSA in snooker is the one exception as a world body.

Most of these world bodies do not actually produce their world events. They select local promoters/countries who have an interest in hosting/producing the events - if the body is confident the promoter can finance it. You seldom get a wagon-load of promoters desiring to do this (such events seldom make money for the promoter). Sponsorship of any serious kind is almost non-existent in the USA and is faring a little better in China and parts of Asia where the sport is newer. Not a lot of serious sponsorship in Europe either, but at least it is organized more as sport and does not carry the baggage we have all produced for our sport here in the USA over 150 years.

These world bodies under these conditions do the best they can to insure that a foreign promoter in a foreign land pays out prize money. I've experienced only two occasions in my tenure at WPA that promoters did not pay out prize money for which they were responsible to world events: Ibiza in 1993 and the Women's 9-Ball WC in Quebec in 2000.

While certainly not budgeted by the WPA, as the 2000 WC came closer, the WPA became concerned with the funding by the local promoter for the event. As the Treasurer/Secretary of the WPA at the time - and pre-9-11 and more formal airport security - I stitched $80,000 USD into my jacket carried on the plane....and when the promoter was not able to pay out the prize fund due to added production costs.....the players got paid in USD by the WPA Treasurer onsite. I can only answer that the WPA does the best it can in choosing credible promoters to host sanctioned international events.

4). But why a WPA? Why a UMB? Why an IBSF? I'm a pool player, just like everyone on these threads, and I've been around a long time. Frankly I got tired of seeing USA pro players in the '60s, '70s, '80s and even the '90s post promotional posters for exhibitions and their resumes claiming to be "5-time World Champion this", 3-Time World One-Pocket that, 11-Time World 9-Ball Champion, 26-time World Trick Shot Champion, etc. ad nauseum. A player could win a tournament and claim it was a World Championship; a USA-based promoter could title an event a "World Championship" featuring only USA players and there was no entity to disqualify the event as such.

These world bodies - weak in the eyes of some of you viewers that some of them might be - still serve very necessary functions for our sport internationally:
1). They allow us to be formally affiliated to the IOC international structure of sport.
2). Many national cue sport organizations overseas support these world bodies and gain government support for doing so.
3). These bodies are the ONLY ones that can formally title an event as a true world championship.

Our sport needs world organizations to better bring the international players and national federations together in an organized fashion and to give those outside our sport who might judge us a contact by which they might involve themselves in our sport in the future. I can come up with many more reasons why the questioned existence of ONE international pool body - the WPA - is important....BUT if it only serves the three purposes above and nothing else, it's existence validated.

If at some point the international sport gains greater sponsorship and WPA can hire full-time staff (as has WPBSA), the WPA will have a better handle on correcting some of the issues that our pro sport must face. If you need to vent against the WPA, offer some constructive criticism and don't just dismiss them as unnecessary weights on our sport. They ARE necessary!
 
Sorry abut the one-paragraph response explaining the Olympic process. I seldom post on threads (I really don't have much time for doing so, and I'll try to go back into my cubby hole after this post and get back to my work promoting the sport in the capacity I do), but I was afraid if I tapped the tab button, the post might go public prematurely.

There....I did it.

RE: the playa9 inquiry from 9-26-17 In defending the international bodies of our sport and an organization's President such as Ian Anderson, a couple things you need to understand:

1). Ian Anderson is a strong President who has a great understanding of any international issues within pool sports. He volunteers his time. Every President can be criticized, and I've had my own disagreements with Ian. But overall Ian is a pretty good leader. He alone - and his board of directors - cannot control all aspects of international pool, but they do the best they can in the voluntary positions they hold. This can open them up to disgruntled players and wonderment that they're not doing more. But I don't believe they should apologize for their efforts.

2). When the IOC accepted the WCBS as its permanent member for cue sports in 1998, it recognized pool/billiards/snooker (cue sports in general) as a sport. Feel free to use that fact if you're ever debating the sport vs. game merits with your friends. That pretty much closes the argument in favor of "sport."

3). The various international bodies for our sport - WCBS (IOC-affiliated)/WPA (pool)/IBSF (snooker)/UMB(carom) are not strongly-financially endowed organizations, and in most cases are run by volunteers - not fully-salaried staff - and in some cases....very part-time out of various people's houses. The WPBSA (hitched to the IBSF in snooker under the WCBS banner) [and the current WCBS President is WPBSA Chairman Jason Ferguson] is fairly well endowed financially compared to the others due to the remarkable 40-year television/sponsorship run snooker has had in the UK and Asia, so WPBSA in snooker is the one exception as a world body.

Most of these world bodies do not actually produce their world events. They select local promoters/countries who have an interest in hosting/producing the events - if the body is confident the promoter can finance it. You seldom get a wagon-load of promoters desiring to do this (such events seldom make money for the promoter). Sponsorship of any serious kind is almost non-existent in the USA and is faring a little better in China and parts of Asia where the sport is newer. Not a lot of serious sponsorship in Europe either, but at least it is organized more as sport and does not carry the baggage we have all produced for our sport here in the USA over 150 years.

These world bodies under these conditions do the best they can to insure that a foreign promoter in a foreign land pays out prize money. I've experienced only two occasions in my tenure at WPA that promoters did not pay out prize money for which they were responsible to world events: Ibiza in 1993 and the Women's 9-Ball WC in Quebec in 2000.

While certainly not budgeted by the WPA, as the 2000 WC came closer, the WPA became concerned with the funding by the local promoter for the event. As the Treasurer/Secretary of the WPA at the time - and pre-9-11 and more formal airport security - I stitched $80,000 USD into my jacket carried on the plane....and when the promoter was not able to pay out the prize fund due to added production costs.....the players got paid in USD by the WPA Treasurer onsite. I can only answer that the WPA does the best it can in choosing credible promoters to host sanctioned international events.

4). But why a WPA? Why a UMB? Why an IBSF? I'm a pool player, just like everyone on these threads, and I've been around a long time. Frankly I got tired of seeing USA pro players in the '60s, '70s, '80s and even the '90s post promotional posters for exhibitions and their resumes claiming to be "5-time World Champion this", 3-Time World One-Pocket that, 11-Time World 9-Ball Champion, 26-time World Trick Shot Champion, etc. ad nauseum. A player could win a tournament and claim it was a World Championship; a USA-based promoter could title an event a "World Championship" featuring only USA players and there was no entity to disqualify the event as such.

These world bodies - weak in the eyes of some of you viewers that some of them might be - still serve very necessary functions for our sport internationally:
1). They allow us to be formally affiliated to the IOC international structure of sport.
2). Many national cue sport organizations overseas support these world bodies and gain government support for doing so.
3). These bodies are the ONLY ones that can formally title an event as a true world championship.

Our sport needs world organizations to better bring the international players and national federations together in an organized fashion and to give those outside our sport who might judge us a contact by which they might involve themselves in our sport in the future. I can come up with many more reasons why the questioned existence of ONE international pool body - the WPA - is important....BUT if it only serves the three purposes above and nothing else, it's existence validated.

If at some point the international sport gains greater sponsorship and WPA can hire full-time staff (as has WPBSA), the WPA will have a better handle on correcting some of the issues that our pro sport must face. If you need to vent against the WPA, offer some constructive criticism and don't just dismiss them as unnecessary weights on our sport. They ARE necessary!

Thanks for this response. As you must know, there have been numerous tournaments since your tenure (post 2000) where prize money in WPA sanctioned events has been either delayed or remained unpaid. Would you care to elaborate on that or should we just ignore it? The sanction fees for these events had been prepaid so the WPA got their payment in advance. Perhaps you know what happens with the sanction fee money; where it goes and how it is allocated? I've never seen a summary of the WPA expenses and wonder how that money is accounted for? Thank you for your response to these questions.
 
Sorry abut the one-paragraph response explaining the Olympic process. I seldom post on threads (I really don't have much time for doing so, and I'll try to go back into my cubby hole after this post and get back to my work promoting the sport in the capacity I do), but I was afraid if I tapped the tab button, the post might go public prematurely.

There....I did it.

RE: the playa9 inquiry from 9-26-17 In defending the international bodies of our sport and an organization's President such as Ian Anderson, a couple things you need to understand:

1). Ian Anderson is a strong President who has a great understanding of any international issues within pool sports. He volunteers his time. Every President can be criticized, and I've had my own disagreements with Ian. But overall Ian is a pretty good leader. He alone - and his board of directors - cannot control all aspects of international pool, but they do the best they can in the voluntary positions they hold. This can open them up to disgruntled players and wonderment that they're not doing more. But I don't believe they should apologize for their efforts.

2). When the IOC accepted the WCBS as its permanent member for cue sports in 1998, it recognized pool/billiards/snooker (cue sports in general) as a sport. Feel free to use that fact if you're ever debating the sport vs. game merits with your friends. That pretty much closes the argument in favor of "sport."

3). The various international bodies for our sport - WCBS (IOC-affiliated)/WPA (pool)/IBSF (snooker)/UMB(carom) are not strongly-financially endowed organizations, and in most cases are run by volunteers - not fully-salaried staff - and in some cases....very part-time out of various people's houses. The WPBSA (hitched to the IBSF in snooker under the WCBS banner) [and the current WCBS President is WPBSA Chairman Jason Ferguson] is fairly well endowed financially compared to the others due to the remarkable 40-year television/sponsorship run snooker has had in the UK and Asia, so WPBSA in snooker is the one exception as a world body.

Most of these world bodies do not actually produce their world events. They select local promoters/countries who have an interest in hosting/producing the events - if the body is confident the promoter can finance it. You seldom get a wagon-load of promoters desiring to do this (such events seldom make money for the promoter). Sponsorship of any serious kind is almost non-existent in the USA and is faring a little better in China and parts of Asia where the sport is newer. Not a lot of serious sponsorship in Europe either, but at least it is organized more as sport and does not carry the baggage we have all produced for our sport here in the USA over 150 years.

These world bodies under these conditions do the best they can to insure that a foreign promoter in a foreign land pays out prize money. I've experienced only two occasions in my tenure at WPA that promoters did not pay out prize money for which they were responsible to world events: Ibiza in 1993 and the Women's 9-Ball WC in Quebec in 2000.

While certainly not budgeted by the WPA, as the 2000 WC came closer, the WPA became concerned with the funding by the local promoter for the event. As the Treasurer/Secretary of the WPA at the time - and pre-9-11 and more formal airport security - I stitched $80,000 USD into my jacket carried on the plane....and when the promoter was not able to pay out the prize fund due to added production costs.....the players got paid in USD by the WPA Treasurer onsite. I can only answer that the WPA does the best it can in choosing credible promoters to host sanctioned international events.

4). But why a WPA? Why a UMB? Why an IBSF? I'm a pool player, just like everyone on these threads, and I've been around a long time. Frankly I got tired of seeing USA pro players in the '60s, '70s, '80s and even the '90s post promotional posters for exhibitions and their resumes claiming to be "5-time World Champion this", 3-Time World One-Pocket that, 11-Time World 9-Ball Champion, 26-time World Trick Shot Champion, etc. ad nauseum. A player could win a tournament and claim it was a World Championship; a USA-based promoter could title an event a "World Championship" featuring only USA players and there was no entity to disqualify the event as such.

These world bodies - weak in the eyes of some of you viewers that some of them might be - still serve very necessary functions for our sport internationally:
1). They allow us to be formally affiliated to the IOC international structure of sport.
2). Many national cue sport organizations overseas support these world bodies and gain government support for doing so.
3). These bodies are the ONLY ones that can formally title an event as a true world championship.

Our sport needs world organizations to better bring the international players and national federations together in an organized fashion and to give those outside our sport who might judge us a contact by which they might involve themselves in our sport in the future. I can come up with many more reasons why the questioned existence of ONE international pool body - the WPA - is important....BUT if it only serves the three purposes above and nothing else, it's existence validated.

If at some point the international sport gains greater sponsorship and WPA can hire full-time staff (as has WPBSA), the WPA will have a better handle on correcting some of the issues that our pro sport must face. If you need to vent against the WPA, offer some constructive criticism and don't just dismiss them as unnecessary weights on our sport. They ARE necessary!


Thank you for this.
 
If at some point the international sport gains greater sponsorship and WPA can hire full-time staff (as has WPBSA), the WPA will have a better handle on correcting some of the issues that our pro sport must face. If you need to vent against the WPA, offer some constructive criticism and don't just dismiss them as unnecessary weights on our sport. They ARE necessary!

Why can't the WPA look inward at people keeping the sport alive at national and regional levels? It sounds great if the WPA can reel in a big fish and start pushing around guys that have made careers out of local/national/international organization.

The main point is the WPA is looking for a payday, while "career players" become self-taught and educated as pool organizers.

The criticism I have is the WPA is not coordinating with active pool promoters that are growing the sport with new generations of people.

I cited the WPA as incompetent for reasons of ignorance. What works with players that made careers in organizing and growing the sport. The players that know the game, fans and the industry better than a volunteer interested in helping out the sport because of their dedication.

Would you rather have someone experienced in reality or someone with a theoretical knowledge of pool organizing? The WPA has great theoretical knowledge, but the truth is players turned promoters know what works, what won't work and what to avoid. Unlike the WPA which avoids pro player input, those player/promoters are laying groundwork for what the WPA will eventually build off of.
 
The only cue sport that belongs in the Olympics is snooker it by far the best game and by far the most organized, ,


1
 
The only cue sport that belongs in the Olympics is snooker it by far the best game and by far the most organized, ,


1

The main problem with snooker is that as the sole cue sport it has much smaller international coverage.
 
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