WPBA, go back to true duble elimination

[Johnnyt]

It's time to go back to TRUE double elimination. WPBA tournaments are supposed to determine to the best players in the world. They fly from half way around the world or across the country, pay the same entry fee as everyone, get into the final 16 w/o a loss and for their reward they get one loss and go home.

The only WPBA players that vote for the modified double elimination are the ones that very rarely make it to 16. The small percent of the time they do make it to 16 they are satisfied to get that far knowing their probably not going to beat anyone of the top players anyway.

Getting new faces on TV does not equate to the best players got there, and (the new face thing) isn't working very well either. Johnnyt

 

[skor]

I think that the whole tournaments format should be changed.... I can't think of any other sport that utilize a double elimination format.

I would love to see pool (especially 9ball) picking up the Tennis format in which a match is made of a number of sets.

 

[Roy Steffensen]

I like the format the way it is.

 

[GMAC]

I think that the whole tournaments format should be changed.... I can't think of any other sport that utilize a double elimination format.

I would love to see pool (especially 9ball) picking up the Tennis format in which a match is made of a number of sets.

You are correct except in our sport the players have to pay an entry fee. Other sports have no entry fee and the players have sponsorship, so if they lose no biggie they play again next week. I would agree with you if there were 30 events a year and the players didn't have to pony up an entry fee.

Johnny, I agree it can't start as double elimination then 3/4 of the way through switch to single elimination.

 

[skor]

You are correct except in our sport the players have to pay an entry fee. Other sports have no entry fee and the players have sponsorship, so if they lose no biggie they play again next week. I would agree with you if there were 30 events a year and the players didn't have to pony up an entry fee.

Then either have a single elimination but with longer races or go DE all the way...
TV is to blame.... but since we hardly get any of it I say forget TV and move to online streaming...

Johnny, I agree it can't start as double elimination then 3/4 of the way through switch to single elimination.

It's been the format in Europe for a while now (European Pool Championship and Eurotour), I never liked it and I agree that it's not fair, as not all player are getting an equal chance and the better players are being punished.

 

[randyg]

Made for TV. I'm sure the players don't like it either.....SPF=randyg

 

[Big Perm]

It's time to go back to TRUE double elimination. WPBA tournaments are supposed to determine to the best players in the world. They fly from half way around the world or across the country, pay the same entry fee as everyone, get into the final 16 w/o a loss and for their reward they get one loss and go home.

The only WPBA players that vote for the modified double elimination are the ones that very rarely make it to 16. The small percent of the time they do make it to 16 they are satisfied to get that far knowing their probably not going to beat anyone of the top players anyway.

Getting new faces on TV does not equate to the best players got there, and (the new face thing) isn't working very well either. Johnnyt

Wasn't aware of this, thanks for pointing it out.....agreed, sounds like a load of crap to me......someone posted a good idea - they could always do single elim like tennis and do sets, maybe races to 9, best two out of three....otherwise, true double elim sounds like the ticket....

 

[dr2112]

I definitely support JohnnyT's argument. Staring out double elimination then switching to single for the final 16 is ridiculous. I play in the APA here (only because there is no BCA) But they have this single modified which is very similar to the WPBA format. ONE unfortunate roll or mistake could send you packing, or in the APA races one "SUPER 4" that only has to win 2 games to a "7's" 5 is hardly fair. I still play and it's fun but I think all tournaments should be double elimination.

 

[Tbeaux]

Johnnyt I agree but I don't think that they will make any changes. At least not anytime soon.
I prefer either single elimination, double elimination (no sweet sixteen), round robin, or possibly a mixed round robin - double elimination format.

 

[PoolJunkie216]

I completely agree that the current format has to go. I find it to be an insult & travesty to the players & fans when the best players are punished later on in a tournament for being better. A true tournament should have a format that stays true from beginning to end, period!

 

[maldito]

It's time to go back to TRUE double elimination. WPBA tournaments are supposed to determine to the best players in the world. They fly from half way around the world or across the country, pay the same entry fee as everyone, get into the final 16 w/o a loss and for their reward they get one loss and go home.

The only WPBA players that vote for the modified double elimination are the ones that very rarely make it to 16. The small percent of the time they do make it to 16 they are satisfied to get that far knowing their probably not going to beat anyone of the top players anyway.

Getting new faces on TV does not equate to the best players got there, and (the new face thing) isn't working very well either. Johnnyt

I agree considering there are some women traveling all the way from Europe and then get bounced in final 16 on 1 loss - there should be double all the way thru or something else . I do feel that Espn TV is necessary as mainstream TV is still more open to the public exposure
and that may attract more sponsers.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

You are correct except in our sport the players have to pay an entry fee. Other sports have no entry fee and the players have sponsorship, so if they lose no biggie they play again next week. I would agree with you if there were 30 events a year and the players didn't have to pony up an entry fee.

Johnny, I agree it can't start as double elimination then 3/4 of the way through switch to single elimination.

I don't know about tennis but just for the record, players on the PGA tour do indeed pay an entry fee. It's peanuts compared to the purses (something like $100), but they do pay a fee.

I always kind of figured the double elimination format was to accommodate players since they do have relatively significant expenses compared to the payouts, and so that promoters would be able to divvy the event into more sessions and therefore sell more tickets to the event.

I don't know why TV should be calling the shots on this issue at all since events in the U.S. anyway are typically not covered live on television. Usually only the semis and final are shown, so what do they care?

I like the idea of double all the way through, except perhaps the final. In the final, just make it a longer race. So if you get to the final on the winners side you essentially forfeit your right to lose a match.

 

[Tbeaux]

I like the idea of double all the way through, except perhaps the final. In the final, just make it a longer race. So if you get to the final on the winners side you essentially forfeit your right to lose a match.

I believe this is called modified double elimination. The longer race likely would not go over well for Classic events since they already cut the number of games per match for TV and still wind up with half the games edited. Remember a 1 hour telecast has only 35-40 minutes max of air time. The rest is ads (sponsors) and interviews. They do use this format for the satellite events though.

I need to go look through old charts, it seems to me they tried some other format a year or two back but decided against using it again for some reason.

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

It's time to go back to TRUE double elimination. WPBA tournaments are supposed to determine to the best players in the world. ]

In the latest WPBA tournament, I noticed that in the double-elimination rounds players raced to 9 and in the final 16 single-elimination rounds players raced to 7. This is the reverse of what it really should be.

 

[RRfireblade]

You are correct except in our sport the players have to pay an entry fee. Other sports have no entry fee and the players have sponsorship, so if they lose no biggie they play again next week. I would agree with you if there were 30 events a year and the players didn't have to pony up an entry fee.

Johnny, I agree it can't start as double elimination then 3/4 of the way through switch to single elimination.

I can't think of a single sport that pays money to the winner and entry is free.

I don't like true d/e in the finals tho either ,I'd rather see the finals be a small series of sets or at least a race that's say twice as long as the rest of the event.

 

[Tbeaux]

I just looked through some of the old charts and it looks like in recent years they may have tried using double on occasion (not sure if true double or modified, chart was incomplete). They also used what they have now but instead of 16 the switched to single at eight players. I couldn't find the chart but I think the wpba tried something with round robin once also. Maybe once Anne has had a chance to put her feet up and relax a bit she'll post on the different things they've tried and what the reasoning behind the sweet sixteen is. As much as I hate seeing a few players get shafted late in the tournaments I really don't see any changes of format coming at least during this season.

 

[8ballEinstein]

The WPBA use to do a true double-elimination, up to the final. At that time I remember tournament director, Steve Tipton, perpetully frantic by the second day, trying to get the matches all caught up and avoiding play late into the night. I'm sure this was at least part of the reason for the change.

Since they've switched over to the new format, I haven't heard any complaints from the players. But of course, I only know a couple. Maybe Melissa Herndon chime in and tell us what she knows.

 

[Pjadedd]

Melissa has posted here before that the players vote on the format and have voted for this one. Of course, I would imagine that not everyone voted this way, but I doubt many decisions would be made completely unanimously.

And, PoolSharkAllen, the even is usually always a race to 9 until the semis, which is a race to 7 for TV. The US Open is the one event that starts the TV matches in the quarterfinals.


PJ

 

[Tom In Cincy]

I think the ladies are doing a fine job at keeping the fans and players happy with the recent changes.

There is always room for improvement and this is an area that the ladies keep addressing within their ranks.

Keeping the top 16 players seeded is good for the fans and the players.
The single elimination is not new to the sport, and has been scrutinized by the players and the fans.

I am confident that the women will either keep the format or improve with the diligence needed to make the correct decision for everyone.

Always a pleasure seeing the ladies perform. True Professionals.