WRISTS - The "hidden power catalyst" of a great stroke or "just along for the ride"?

High speed video will certainly do as you say.

lfigueroa said:
Sorry. I have to call complete and total BS on this.

Besides being silly on its face, even an el cheapo Flip camera will capture video at 60 FPS. Plenty fast enough to capture what the wrist of a pool player is doing. And if that isn't fast enough, the sky is the limit nowadays when it comes to high speed video capture.

Lou Figueroa
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That's correct Lou, but I was referring to a pool match on video. High speed video will certainly do as you say. I'll be more clear in the future, thanks.
 
cjssecrets4u2 said:
That's correct Lou, but I was referring to a pool match on video. High speed video will certainly do as you say. I'll be more clear in the future, thanks.
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Baloney. A Flip camera is not a high speed camera but will show what you say can't be shown. And Accu-Stats is using sufficiently sophisticated HD equipment to record their matches.

Lou Figueroa
 
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This is where I use a hammer if I"m having trouble with timing.

mantis99 said:
This has been a challenging topic for me for at least the past year. Originally I found that uncocking my wrists produced a significant increase in power, and resultant spin. However, over time, I began overgripping the cue when attempting a strong stroke and actually began cocking my wrist as I started forward. This causes a quick downward movement of the tip, and I have been miscuing more than ever due to this. I have been struggling mightly to correct this, and have just recently decided to pre-cock my wrist, and try to relax my fingers to avoid overgripping. It has been helping so far, but I do believe that more power lies in hitting with an uncocking motion. I just can't get myself to uncock correctly instead of over grip and cock the cue. It has been terribly frustrating for me, and has been the cause of some real up and down play. I do find that concentrating on a smooth transition from back stroke pause to forward stroke instead of a violent forward movement helps also. I'd love to get this solved and regain some consistency, but have not yet been able to do so.
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This is where I use a hammer if I"m having trouble with timing. I actually hammer nails, then play pool, then just try to feel the weight of the hammer and how it transfers energy to it's tip. I also use EXACTLY the same grip for a pool cue as I do a hammer, and everyone that I have used this with does the same. We all hold it differently, but all hold it the same with the hammer and pool cue.

For me and several others this is something that works very well. For the "experts" it doesn't work at all. Try it for yourself and you can be your own "judge". 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
ENGLISH! said:
Mr. Water Lock,

I've been playing for 46 years & would say that I've never done it on purpose.

How did you come to doing it? Did someone teach it to you or did you just naturally 'gravitate' to it? What type 'grip' do you use? A loose or firm one?

Thanks in advance for your insight should you choose to respond.

Best regards,
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How did I come to do it? Thats a good question because I don't know. But as in most all sports or games that require muscle movement tense muscles are weak and relaxed are stronger.The golf swing is much more powerful with a relaxed body then a tense one. So to answer your question my grip hand is is very relaxed. So much so that if you look at it from the rear you will see a little space between my palm and the cue.I also hold it with only 3 fingers on most shots. If you were to sneak up behind me and grab the cue real fast you would probably get it loose. So most of the time it's very loose. What I do and this may be fundamentally incorrect it that just at the moment of the tip hitting the cue ball I tighten my grip just a bit so as not to lose control of the cue going forward.
So I just contradicted myself and made it complicated.:banghead:
Just be clear I am not an instructor or self appointed expert,just an old pretty good player with 50+years in this game.
 
mantis99...You already have the answer (see bolded below). Now, concentrate of keeping your grip loose all the way through, backwards and forwards (regardless of the speed of the forward stroke), and you'll have it! Remember, the idea of the 'stroke-slip' (letting the cue slide forward through your hand) is the perfect definition of the desired outcome. We just don't have to actually let it slide...just hold it loosely.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

mantis99 said:
I do find that concentrating on a smooth transition from back stroke pause to forward stroke instead of a violent forward movement helps also. I'd love to get this solved and regain some consistency, but have not yet been able to do so.
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lfigueroa said:
Baloney. A Flip camera is not a high speed camera but will show what you say can't be shown. And Accu-Stats is using sufficiently sophisticated HD equipment to record their matches.

Lou Figueroa
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So you can see it? Can you copy us with a You Tube link so we can see it too? The motion is tough to see, even in person.
 
Scott Lee said:
mantis99...You already have the answer (see bolded below). Now, concentrate of keeping your grip loose all the way through, backwards and forwards (regardless of the speed of the forward stroke), and you'll have it!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
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You really advise that? That may be one way, but I don't personally know anyone that does it like that. How do you get the most feel for the cue ball? You do feel the cue ball in your hand don't you? At least when you contact the cue ball you must tighten to get the "feel".
 
cjssecrets4u2 said:
So you can see it? Can you copy us with a You Tube link so we can see it too? The motion is tough to see, even in person.
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Sure. As soon as I get those Area 51 and sasquatch videos up.

You seem to missing my point but that doesn't surprise me much... Why don't you post up one of your cute pictures now :-)

Lou Figueroa
 
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Really? Nobody? I thought you said you've known Randyg for a LONG time? It's exactly what we teach...and it's very successful for most students.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

cjssecrets4u2 said:
You really advise that? That may be one way, but I don't personally know anyone that does it like that. How do you get the most feel for the cue ball? You do feel the cue ball in your hand don't you?
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lfigueroa said:
lol. Like I said, you seem to be missing my point: I can't show you what you claim is there but can't be shown with normal video ;-)

Lou Figueroa
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Your points are interesting Lou....we always enjoy your input.
 
cjssecrets4u2 said:
You really advise that? That may be one way, but I don't personally know anyone that does it like that. How do you get the most feel for the cue ball? You do feel the cue ball in your hand don't you? At least when you contact the cue ball you must tighten to get the "feel".
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The hands are extremely sensitive. I don't understand why you think that you have to grip fairly tight to feel the vibrations in the cue during the hit?? Maybe it's your cue or your wrap choice that deadens it some?????

edit: Or, maybe it's just the you are so used to feeling one way, that your brain just doesn't register the same feel with a different touch such as holding the cue loose? (that's not derogatory in the least. All our brains work a little differently from each other)
 
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...and you're certainly entitled to your opinion. However, that doesn't automatically mean your way is better. Our methods have been proven a winner for thousands of players. Yours has only been proven to you, by you...but to listen to you, one might believe you're preaching the "gospel" (or in this case, the GOSPOOL..LMAO...sorry Freddy)! LOL Amazing to me how you have singlehandedly managed to bring a variety of disparate personalities together in one common theme...that "your" way is not only not the only way...but possibly not even the best way! LOL

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

cjssecrets4u2 said:
I have no idea what Randy G. teaches, but I have known him a long time. I just believe much differently that's all.
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Scott Lee said:
mantis99...You already have the answer (see bolded below). Now, concentrate of keeping your grip loose all the way through, backwards and forwards (regardless of the speed of the forward stroke), and you'll have it! Remember, the idea of the 'stroke-slip' (letting the cue slide forward through your hand) is the perfect definition of the desired outcome. We just don't have to actually let it slide...just
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Scott, I have seen your loose grip in a short video clip with Randy G. Very smooth and fluid looking, almost like a glider on a child's swing set.

Now, I don't want to sound critical, but as smooth as it looks, I personally have not seen any upper tier players using that motion during delivery. The pinoys all seem to have that loose grip during warmup strokes, but they appear to me to firm up during the final delivery. Am I missing something, or seeing something that's not there?
 
This routine of you trying to attack me personally is just stange indeed.

Scott Lee said:
...and you're certainly entitled to your opinion. However, that doesn't automatically mean your way is better. Our methods have been proven a winner for thousands of players. Yours has only been proven to you, by you...but to listen to you, one might believe you're preaching the "gospel" (or in this case, the GOSPOOL..LMAO...sorry Freddy)! LOL Amazing to me how you have singlehandedly managed to bring a variety of disparate personalities together in one common theme...that "your" way is not only not the only way...but possibly not even the best way! LOL

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

I have said over and over that everyone's style is different and mine is unusual, but people still ask me to explain how I do things and why. I believe in using the wrist to create a slot/track/guide to my cue so it NEVER goes off line. It helped make me an almost unbeatable player in my gambling days and I feel it's time to share these techniques publically.

This routine of you trying to attack me personally is just stange indeed. Do I really make you feel "funny inside" or what's your problem with me posting on here? I have as much right as you do to share my experience, guidance and suggestions.

My way is not the "gospel (the Good News), as you put it and I've never represented that it is. I'm just sharing my experiences and techniques and if someone likes or benifits from them that makes it worthwhile. I'm not charging or seeking anything from my efforts. 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
Tacoma Whitey played with a slip stroke, that was the first one I ever seen, he could move the ball effortless, and barely touch the cue ball. He must have used his wrist also.
 
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