WRISTS - The "hidden power catalyst" of a great stroke or "just along for the ride"?

[CJ Wiley]

"the difference that makes the difference"

The TOI is a style, system and/or technique of play, not a "tool" or specialty shot. I've said many times that either you commit to using it or don't use it at all. There's simply no in between and if you try to just "use it sometimes" your game will be all over the place.

Considering the time you have to practice I'd recommend you just try to play your own style as well as possible. The TOI takes at least 3 weeks, like Mike said, to just begin to see the potential. 'The Game is the Teacher'

CJ,

I see enough of the potential now. The TOI even reveals more every now & then.


Just "real eyes" there's a HUGE difference between "now and then" and committing to anything new. It's "the difference that makes the difference" in my opinion. You should be learning 15-20 shots a week if you're focused on using the TOI. If not, you're probably just "going through the motions." I could get you on the right track quickly in person, however, I can't see your playing speed so I have no idea what you mean by using TOI "now and then." To me this isn't an easy thing to accomplish.

I understand the feeling, and have done it many times in my life. Even in pool it was difficult for me to commit to things I KNEW were effective. 'Experience is the Teacher'

 

[ENGLISH!]

[/I]

Just "real eyes" there's a HUGE difference between "now and then" and committing to anything new. It's "the difference that makes the difference" in my opinion. You should be learning 15-20 shots a week if you're focused on using the TOI. If not, you're probably just "going through the motions." I could get you on the right track quickly in person, however, I can't see your playing speed so I have no idea what you mean by using TOI "now and then." To me this isn't an easy thing to accomplish.

I understand the feeling, and have done it many times in my life. Even in pool it was difficult for me to commit to things I KNEW were effective. 'Experience is the Teacher'

CJ,

You may be correct. But now that you have pointed out the 'Wizzard' behind the curtain, how can I pay no attention to him.:wink:

I do not understand about learning 15-20 shots a week. I thought there was only 3, TOI high, middle, & low.

I was just playing around with it prior to last week & immediately saw the potential. So last week I put in 3.5 hours 'practicing' it on a 9ft. table with 4 & 3/8 inch pockets on Simonis cloth & the pocketing was great but I could not control the distance that the CB floated.

Yesterday I went back to put in another 3+ hours to focus on just that, controlling the distance. Neither the pocketing nor the distance controll was up to par. When I started to compete, I tried to stay with the TOI but it, or I should say I, was not gettting it done. So, I switched back to 'my way' while still shooting certain shoots with TOI when I was confident that it would work & that I could execute it properly. That's what I meant by now & then, ongoing within any game I play. I would say I'm using it 20 to 25% of the time.

Until my table is operational. I will be at the hall at least twice a week, maybe 3 times a week. That's the best I can do for now. I'm 59 but still have some other obligations. I may wind up putting it on a shelf but not until I give it the fairest shot that I can.

Go U.S.A

 

[nobcitypool]

Translation: I tried TOI (or think I did, perhaps I didn't understand it) and it isn't working for me. However, I don't want to admit that to CJ (and the world) but I also am needy, must have some attention and therefore, must announce this to the world. This is nearly as stupid as having a published ignore list (even though he peeks). LOL

Hi everyone,

First I woke up & did not feel very well. Then I looked outside & saw an all day rain rolling in. I almost bailed. But I got it together & went to the hall anyway,

It did not start out well & got worse. Trying to hit softer for position failed. The CB just does not deflect/squirt enough (LD shafts). Went back to making sure I deflected & pocketing came back but postion is still out of the window.

The heavens opened up & dumped tons of water on the New Orleans area. Graduallly I lost it. Started to mis both ways & could not correctly predict the deflection. I beared down & it came back some but not consistently. My friend came in & we started to play, I tried to stay with it but had to let it go & went back to my game with an occasional TOI shot when I thought it might work better. The TOI can cinch certain shots very well. It was tough even shooting my way with english. I think it was the changing weather or maybe I was just off as I did not feel my best & was dragging a bit. I won every game but it was ugly.

In conclusion, the jury is still out. The TOI is still in my tool box but for now it's in one of the lower draws to be taken out for certain jobs (shots).

Regards to all,

 

[Mikjary]

I played in a 9 ball tournament a couple of weeks ago with a TOI. I'd put in a week or two with it full time and took it for a "spin". I hung a 4 pack in one race and dogged a few simple outs in some others. I didn't really know what size engine I had under the hood, so I just played the best that I could with it.

I'm sure the other players were as confused as I was after I would run a rack and then miss position a blind man could make. It was frustrating and comical, but I learned a lot. A couple of weeks later and I've seen what I should've done, but didn't. In a couple of weeks I'll know even more and hopefully give a few opponents the chair.

I do learn a shot or two every time I pick up a cue and that hasn't happened for years. I'm really looking forward to your video, CJ. I'm sure there're quite a few shots I need to learn yet.

Best,
Mike

 

[One Pocket John]

I played in a 9 ball tournament a couple of weeks ago with a TOI. I'd put in a week or two with it full time and took it for a "spin". I hung a 4 pack in one race and dogged a few simple outs in some others. I didn't really know what size engine I had under the hood, so I just played the best that I could with it.

I'm sure the other players were as confused as I was after I would run a rack and then miss position a blind man could make. It was frustrating and comical, but I learned a lot. A couple of weeks later and I've seen what I should've done, but didn't. In a couple of weeks I'll know even more and hopefully give a few opponents the chair.

I do learn a shot or two every time I pick up a cue and that hasn't happened for years. I'm really looking forward to your video, CJ. I'm sure there're quite a few shots I need to learn yet.

Best,
Mike

Hey Mike,

Been mess'in around with TOI and it seems to me (from practice) that the less of the OB that you hit the more you can come more into a center ball hit on the QB.

I like it, it surprises me sometimes on the cancellation of cue ball indused spin off the OB. Its a clean and pure hit. Ya just need to get use to the action off the OB.

John

 

[ENGLISH!]

Hey Mike,

Been mess'in around with TOI and it seems to me (from practice) that the less of the OB that you hit the more you can come more into a center ball hit on the QB.
I like it, it surprises me sometimes on the cancellation of cue ball indused spin off the OB. Its a clean and pure hit. Ya just need to get use to the action off the OB.

John

Hi John,

I dont think I undersatnd the statement I highlighted. What does the angle of the cut have to do with the location of the hit on the CB? That would affect the deflection which could be an issue depending on the distance between the two?

Are you referring to controlling the spin pick up on the CB by varying the off set of the hit on the CB?

Thanks in advance,

 

[CJ Wiley]

It's the same type of scenario going on in the game of pool.

CJ,

You may be correct. But now that you have pointed out the 'Wizzard' behind the curtain, how can I pay no attention to him.:wink:

I do not understand about learning 15-20 shots a week. I thought there was only 3, TOI high, middle, & low.


--------------------------------------------------------------------


I'm running out of ways to communicate this to you, and that means I'm getting close.

There are people that have recently stated (they didn't mean to be taken literally and I didn't, just using this as an expample too) there are "4000 shots" in the Game of pool. Einstein supposedly said there were millions of shots, all I know is there are too many to remember.

It's like some of the greatest Classical Symphonies, there's only 3 or 4 themes, and may be hundreds of variations on those themes. This is made up of thousands of notes in different keys, speeds and volumes. All of these complicated musical scores are made up of only 3 or 4 main themes. It's the same type of scenario going on in the game of pool.

I said we could use the low/middle/high with a "Touch of Inside" to generate most of the pool shots I was referring to the same pricipal. When you have a constant theme (TOI) the Game starts to take on new meaning. Where once it was this difficult proposition with thousands of shots coming up like "dodge ball for the school tattle tail," it suddenly starts to go together.

It starts to "go together" because you have created a "theme" that you can take the variations from. {This process is actually easy and doesn't require near the thought of your old "dodge ball game."}

When things start to make sense they get simpler, not more complicated "it's easy to make things difficult, and difficult to make things easy." Hitting the cue ball in a different spot every time is one way to play pool, but if you do this, at least have a theme.

If someone asks me "CJ, what is the theme of your game?" I'll answer "I use the "Touch of Inside and make the cue ball do what I want it to do." How would you answer this question?

All great masterpieces work off the same principal, a common theme and variations on that theme. What is the theme of your pool game? Now that you're thinking about it maybe it's time to create one that you like and use it.

Playing pool without a theme (a dependable shot that you can rely on) is like listening to the music on a jukebox (that someone else is selecting) - you never know what's coming up next and there will certainly be "good ones," "bad ones," and ones that make you want to "pull the plug." :groucho:

With the TOI technique you can break the whole game of pool down into 3 shots with a "symphony" of possibilities. I'll bet you haven't heard that before. :wink: 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[ENGLISH!]

CJ,

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I played trumpet for 8 years & took music apprecaition in college. I understand themes & returning to themes.

If you asked me 5 weeks ago what my pool playing theme is. I would have said 'cue ball control & cheating pockets with engllish to get the shot I want on the next ball' because without it I'd probably have to shoot a different shot that I don't want to shoot.

The table does not tell me where I have to go. I go where I want to go. With the OB in one position & the CB in one position, I can not tell you how many different shot options I have. Yes they are dependent on different spins & speeds.

Ive been shooting with inside & outside english for nearly 46 yrs. You've introduced me to another posibility, but I can't do it consistently yet. I like it & am going to give it a fair try for as long as I can. If I can get it to were it is for you I will. But if for some reason, I CAN'T, I have another theme to return to.

Thanks Again & My Absolute Best Regards,

 

[CJ Wiley]

Your Game wouldn't last long on the "Gong Show."

CJ,

The table does not tell me where I have to go. I go where I want to go. With the OB in one position & the CB in one position, I can not tell you how many different shot options I have. Yes they are dependent on different spins & speeds.


---------------------------------------------------------------------

Just like music options are full of sharps and flats. This doesn't mean they play well together. I have a feeling your Game wouldn't last long on the "Gong Show." :groucho:{JK}

 

[ENGLISH!]

CJ,

The table does not tell me where I have to go. I go where I want to go. With the OB in one position & the CB in one position, I can not tell you how many different shot options I have. Yes they are dependent on different spins & speeds.


---------------------------------------------------------------------

Just like music options are full of sharps and flats. This doesn't mean they play well together. I have a feeling your Game wouldn't last long on the "Gong Show." :groucho:{JK}

CJ,

What's the point of trying to insult me? Why are you upset with me?

A series of sharps & flats mixed in with the other natural notes can make some very beautiful music & music would certainly not be the same without the half tones of sharps & flats. In fact in might be rather bland relatively speaking.

A piano has 88 keys & a trumpet has 3 valves. 3 valves & all the other notes come off of combinations of those three valves with different pressures of the mouthpiece upon the lips & different velocities of wind. Does that sound easy? Do they both make beautiful music each in their own way?

I'm very interested in trying to learn the TOI technique & have had some success with it. I have said it is deadly for cinching shots. I am just having trouble controlling the distance that I want the cue ball to 'float'.

You want to GONG me. Okay, I'm GONGED. I'll take what I've got & do the best that I can with it. I did not have TOI before & didn't need it. Now I've got a piece of it, so I'm ahead of were I was.

I'll always be an amateur, because I play for love of the game, not the money it might bring me.

Sorry for the rant. I guess I'm more long winded than you. I played trumpet not piano. Music from either one is still beautiful as long it's not just pounding keys & blowing wind. (metaphors)

Regards,

 

[CJ Wiley]

my last "music metaphor"

CJ,

I'll always be an amateur, because I play for love of the game, not the money it might bring me.

Sorry for the rant. I guess I'm more long winded than you. I played trumpet not piano. Music from either one is still beautiful as long it's not just pounding keys & blowing wind. (metaphors)

Regards,

-----------------------------------------------------------------------


Yes I played the trumpet in school as well, however, my point is "if you play the trumpet wouldn't you be better off to specialize in playing the trumpet and not try to play several other instuments as well?"

Anyway, that's my last "music metaphor", it seemed to completely miss the mark...or note in this case.

 

[CJ Wiley]

Simplifying the physical game in pool with the TOI is a learned process

I played in a 9 ball tournament a couple of weeks ago with a TOI. I'd put in a week or two with it full time and took it for a "spin". I hung a 4 pack in one race and dogged a few simple outs in some others. I didn't really know what size engine I had under the hood, so I just played the best that I could with it.

I'm sure the other players were as confused as I was after I would run a rack and then miss position a blind man could make. It was frustrating and comical, but I learned a lot. A couple of weeks later and I've seen what I should've done, but didn't. In a couple of weeks I'll know even more and hopefully give a few opponents the chair.

I do learn a shot or two every time I pick up a cue and that hasn't happened for years. I'm really looking forward to your video, CJ. I'm sure there're quite a few shots I need to learn yet.

Best,
Mike

The last thing to "put into place" is the TOI mindset. One thing players never consider is when you start to run out EVERY TIME the game gets monotonous and can lead to careless errors. The "mental side" of pool, golf, tennis and martial arts has always been interesting to me and they share common denominators.

Simplifying the physical game in pool with the TOI is a learned process, the mental side uses the same principals. Developing the foundation of a single thought as opposed to trying to defend yourself against a barrage of "self talk" is essential.

It is understood by experts we have, on average 12-50 thousand thoughts a day. This is like the example of all the pool shots you can create that aren't needed. When you shift your attention to your "Inner Game of Pool" the same process will be useful.

Taking thousands of possible "thoughts" and reducing them to 3 or 4 mental "anchors" is the key. When I get back from the Mosconi Cup this technique can be shared to anyone interested. 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[ENGLISH!]

Yes I played the trumpet in school as well, however, my point is "if you play the trumpet wouldn't you be better off to specialize in playing the trumpet and not try to play several other instuments as well?"

Anyway, that's my last "music metaphor", it seemed to completely miss the mark...or note in this case.

I got that point a little while back & I am trying to head in that direction even after 46 yrs. of relative success moving my cue ball by cheating pockets & playing out of tune hitting sharps, inside english, & flats, outside english.:wink: The music used to sound pretty good.

I'm starting a 16 week money league for individuals tonight & I'm not in it for the money but for the competition. My table will be available soon & I will be able to devote more time & effort to TOI. After the league I can devote a full 4 to 6 weeks to convert fully to the TOI. If I fully employ it now, I am sure I would struggle & not be very competitive.

I would be 'GONGED' right out of the running for the championship.:wink:

Regards & Best Wishes,

 

[CJ Wiley]

the key that unlocks the door to the higher levels. Contolling, and feeling.........

CJ, you are becoming a true Master in writing and explenation!

Thanks for all the info, it´s just great. Takes sometime to try everything out but eventually you find your own way of doing it.
The times you have it it´s great and the stroke is so powerful it takes some adjustment to fine-tune it. And my stroke was pretty strong before:smile:.
Now I´m trying to get the feel of your aiming, not really there yet but I get some glimpses now and then and it´s also very strong, like the rest I have to fit it in with my own way so it feels comfortable.

It´s great to try new things out, I learn something from everything -even if I might put some of it on the shelf.
I can stand high, low, pool stance, snooker stance etc etc and they all have their different strengths.

Thanks for all of your posts and taking the time to share all your knowledge!

Chrippa

You're welcome and thanks for you support, it's always nice to hear what's going on.

You're coming along nicely. Our minds will unlock the combination of pool if we know how to go about it. My goal isn't to have anyone playing the same way, but achieving great outcomes playing many different styles.

When you know what you MUST do it's easier to find your own, personaly way of achieving it. The first and foremost thing is hitting the cue ball straight every time.

That's why understanding how the hand/wrist/forearm produces cue speed is essential to building a strong foundation. Hitting the cue ball (Pinning IT) in the same, specific spot is the key that unlocks the door to the higher levels. Contolling, and feeling this "Touch" in your hand that connects directly to the cue/ball/game.

I suggest you pay less attention to what your arm is doing and more to what your hand is feeling. 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[CJ Wiley]

Hey Mike,

Been mess'in around with TOI and it seems to me (from practice) that the less of the OB that you hit the more you can come more into a center ball hit on the QB.

I like it, it surprises me sometimes on the cancellation of cue ball indused spin off the OB. Its a clean and pure hit. Ya just need to get use to the action off the OB.

John

In 24 Hours I'm leaving for the Mosconi Cup to Captain the USA's Team. It's going to be a thrill and I can feel the anticipation building.

I just sent out all the remaining DVD orders for New 'Billiards Inside Secrets' - the Game is the Teacher series.

I will send out one more order before I leave, so for the next 12 Hours if you BUY ONE, I will GIVE YOU ANOTHER DVD ABSOLUTELY FREE - this is a good chance to buy that person that "has everything," a great present and enjoy one for yourself.

For everyone "abroad" we now have a free pre views and a Holiday Download Special for $14.95 for ONE MONTH......that's right, 'Billiards Inside Secrets' can now be DOWNLOADED Immediately at www.cjwiley.com

2 FOR ONE DVD's or a 14.95 DOWNLOAD will be available for the next 12 HOURS. THANKS :smile: Merry Christmas and Happy New Year

 

[One Pocket John]

In 24 Hours I'm leaving for the Mosconi Cup to Captain the USA's Team. It's going to be a thrill and I can feel the anticipation building.

I just sent out all the remaining DVD orders for New 'Billiards Inside Secrets' - the Game is the Teacher series.

I will send out one more order before I leave, so for the next 12 Hours if you BUY ONE, I will GIVE YOU ANOTHER DVD ABSOLUTELY FREE - this is a good chance to buy that person that "has everything," a great present and enjoy one for yourself.

For everyone "abroad" we now have a free pre views and a Holiday Download Special for $14.95 for ONE MONTH......that's right, 'Billiards Inside Secrets' can now be DOWNLOADED Immediately at www.cjwiley.com

2 FOR ONE DVD's or a 14.95 DOWNLOAD will be available for the next 12 HOURS. THANKS :smile: Merry Christmas and Happy New Year

Man, thanks for the preview. My DVD is on its way......thanks

Good luck in England. You will need to get some rest because of the time difference. You might sleep for a whole day.

If this is being recorded it sure would be nice to see.

Oh yeah, take an umbrella.

John

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

You are "the champ" and also a legend?

I went to PM you but can't. Maybe you can PM me with a little more info.

Regards,

It looks like the Champ and the Living Legend got hoisted by his own petard. LOL

 

[ENGLISH!]

It looks like the Champ and the Living Legend got hoisted by his own petard. LOL

Do you think he's been vanquished?

 

[manwon]

There appear to be three different techniques for the wrist to assist the pocket billiards stroke. The first one is the wrists don't do much at all, the second is they cock up as you hit the cue ball and finish the stroke and the other is the wrists uncock down as the cue ball is struck and the follow through is completed.

The way I play is definitely with the wrists cocking down as I contact the cue ball. I have been committed to this technique the last couple of days and it's amazing the results. The thing about my technique is I can pre cock my wrists very precisely and that was how I consistently produce powerful stoke shots with such accuracy. This, ironically is what I've been struggling with the most. I seemed to have lost my "power source" that effortlessly produced pin point accuracy when striking the cue ball.

Many of you will not benefit from this information (because the way you use your wrists work fine for you), and others will benefit immensely when you're still searching to improve your stroke and accuracy.

I personally found a missing part to my "personal puzzle" and I'm surprised I didn't "real eyes" how important this technique was for me. Sometimes the simplest answers complete the most complex problems {for myself}.

For some reason my "reasonable" mind says "use outside english", however a "Touch of Inside" produces best results, and my mind says "don't use the wrists", however uncocking my wrists like I'm using a hammer is most effective, and my mind says "root against my opponent" when pulling for my opponent works best. The key to life seems to be making myself do {at times} what I least "naturally" want to do. As I get "more experienced" I see that unfolding in many areas.

The Moral of the story? "Reasonable" thoughts and techniques can often be the wrong thoughts and techniques to reach the highest levels. To separate yourself you must be "Unreasonable" at times. 'The Game is the Teacher'

Like Louie Roberts use to say when I was Kid in St. Louis, if you want action on the cue ball snap the wrist. I think the technique you are describing is very effective, thanks very much for taking the time to post it. I am certain that many will benefit from this thread if they take the time try what you have described.

Merry Christmas.

 

[lfigueroa]

Do you think he's been vanquished?

His admission just means he's probably already cranked up another alias here.

Lou Figueroa